• What do you think is the perfect ideology?
    39 replies, posted
What do you think is the perfect ideology for a country?
Fast threads.
Bacon. And liberalism.
There is no perfect ideology.
There is none. Different ideologies will work better for different people.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;30560386]There is none. Different ideologies will work better for different people.[/QUOTE] However, there are several parties to be elected in a country's elections. Each one of them has its own ideologies. Which party do you think would work best?
Different people will have different opinions on what is best, usually because of their upbringing or their current status. You can't get everyone to agree on one thing, so you can't have the perfect Ideology.
Take all the freedom stuff from libertarianism and the healthcare, education, social security etc from socialism [b]Edit:[/b] And no religion
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;30560376]Bacon. And liberalism.[/QUOTE] liberalism can be pretty fucked up, screw that.
[img]http://i52.tinypic.com/2i27j3r.jpg[/img] Prokhor Zakharov's ideology from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. [img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=229703&dateline=1292090387[/img] Or Carl Sagan's.
First of all, people aren't moral or immoral, because, as you said, there is no free will, which morality depends on. Your actions then are decided on some kind of programming. Happiness is this programming. You do whatever you think will make you happier, you and you alone, because you are incapable of feeling other people's emotions, and you evaluate situations and their level of happiness using ideals, or tastes. These ideals are the ones that can be judged, and all you need to do to do it objectively is assume that happiness is objectively good. And if your happiness is objectively good, then it is a characteristic of the universe and applies to everyone, same for all other consciousnesses. With this follows (if you assume that happiness is the ONLY thing that is good, which it is, all human experiences eventually come down to a balance between happiness and unhappiness) that the sole rule for human conduct is maximization of happiness. This is all premise. Now, tastes are divided into two mechanisms. The happiness, which comes from the realization of a taste, which is entirely subject and molded, and the consequences which are the natural consequences of the action, which depend on the nature of the action and are strictly objective, as they depend on the laws of physics and logic. This is where the grading starts. The better ideals, the more efficient ones, are the ones whose consequences allow for you to perform more actions from which you will receive happiness, the happiness you get from the realization of the ideal does not come into the equation because you can mold to have any ideal whatsoever, you can't mold the laws of physics. Medicine allows for one to live longer and better, sadism and violence do the opposite. I mentioned how the one rule is to maximize happiness, but how should we? There are rules, laws to the mechanics of happiness. Firstly, we'll assume that happiness, as something that can rise and decrease can be measured in a numerical fashion. What is very hard is to find a scale, but that is not needed for the argument. The first rule, which I already mentioned, is: Every unit of happiness felt by any consciousness, in itself, is of the same value The second one is in regards to happiness distribution. Assuming person 1 has X U.H (units of happiness) and the other one also X/2 U.H., and we have an object which will, on a determined standard person, produce 50 U.H. and assuming that no other difference between them exists other than level of happiness (and that the object will produce happiness and not unhappiness on the people), who should we give the object to? The sad person, merely because the less you have, the more of a happiness boost you will receive. Inversely for unhappiness, the unhappier you are, less importance you will give to bad things. The second rule then is: The same stimulus will not provoke the same variation in happiness of two equal people, disregarding their happiness levels. Now, we know what is “moral” (i.e. efficient), and we (sort of) know how to figure out which situation is better when presented to us, now we need to see how we can predict situations. Let’s imagine we have this situation. A man must choose between taking or not taking a 5 dollar bill from someone, all other effects are neglectable. First, we need to find all possible consequences for each outcome and attribute them a happiness value. For the sake of argument, let’s assume money’s happiness value is equal to its monetary worth. You get Situation A (he does) where we have Hpv = 5-5 (+5 for the man and -5 for the man he took the bill from) while situation B has an Hpv = 0+0 (nothing changed) So both situations are equally valid, but what if we can’t (and we can’t, thanks quantum physics!) predict the future with a 100% rate of success, then we need to factor in probabilities. Let’s think of a bet, would you bet your entire money for a chance at getting 5 dollars? It’s not ver y wise, but how do we calculate that one. Easy: Situation A(he does) you get an Hpv= 5(dollars) x 0.5 (chance of winning) – 10000(his money) x 0.5 (chance of losing) while you invert the happiness values of each stimulus for situation B. Situation A is then the preferable choice. BUT there’s a possibility the man running the wager shoots you if you win, you must also factor that, there’s a chance he’ll shoot and miss and the man ends up killing him because of it. There is a chance the man who just died were a future Hitler, or maybe that he would be future Hitler’s murderer. A nigh infinite amount of probabilities that must be factored in, but ones we can ignore since the probabilities of the guy being/killing the future Hitler are near identical in both situation so, when putting one against the other, we can ignore them. And it's not that it can't be measured. It can, we have been doing so ever since we were born. If happiness levels fluctuate and we know something makes us happier than something else, then we've been using numbers (estimations) all the time. What's VERY hard is using a standard unit. That depends on the brain; I'm thinking maybe concentration of happiness hormones or number of neurons fired. I don't know enough about the brain to talk about this. Fascism first, communism afterwards.
A little bit of everything.
Some idea of accepting people for who they are would save us a lot of trouble I'd imagine. But even then there are some senseless people.
Radical atheism
[QUOTE=Esrange;30563357]Radical atheism[/QUOTE] Fuck that
[QUOTE=Esrange;30563357]Radical atheism[/QUOTE] You know who were radical atheists? Soviet union, priests got shot or put into prison, religion outlawed :colbert:
[QUOTE=Falchion;30563829]You know who were radical atheists? Soviet union, priests got shot or put into prison, religion outlawed :colbert:[/QUOTE] Do you know who wasn't a radical athiest? Hitler. :colbert: Attack the doctrine for what it says, not what what people did while under it. I'm sure shooting priests up isn't in the doctrine.
I'd rather chop the Catholic priests into pieces, burn them and offer them to my own God.
There is no "perfect" ideology, but if I ran a country I would base it off social democracy and liberalism.
Some form of Alturism
JC Denton's transhumanist democracy
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;30564036]Do you know who wasn't a radical athiest? [B][U]Hitler[/U][/B]. :colbert:[/QUOTE] :godwin:
Nihilism
Some combination of democratic socialism, anarcho-syndicalism, infoanarchism and liberalism.
OP, communism is best.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;30564587]JC Denton's transhumanist democracy[/QUOTE] Whatashamism
I dont think that the question about a "perfect" ideology is fair. I mean, I think that this thread should kinda direct its attentions to the best currently fitting ideology so far and why. otherwise, the question is too abstract.
no single system works with a large population, we can never make everyone happy
Technocratic Stalinism.
[QUOTE=maravjua;30560362]What do you think is the perfect ideology for a country?[/QUOTE] Mine
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