I think most people aren't upset about the scene itself, they're upset that the scene might be attempting to use rape as a metaphor for uncontrollable violence. As compared to authors using rape to literally represent rape - exposing how awful and psychologically disabling rape is for the victim, and treating rape as a serious and action which permanently changes others - there was an immediate concern that HM2 was simply using rape as a metaphor.
It sounds like the HM2 team actually want to tackle rape culture and sexualized violence in Hotline Miami 2, and if that's the case, most detractors and feminists would probably change their mind and support the narrative format. As long as the narrative took sexual violence seriously (and, obviously, it would), I think there's definitely room for the scene.
People will get sand in their cunts over the most minor things.
[QUOTE=Reimu;42103417]I think most people aren't upset about the scene itself, they're upset that the scene might be attempting to use rape as a metaphor for uncontrollable violence. As compared to authors using rape to literally represent rape - exposing how awful and psychologically disabling rape is for the victim, and treating rape as a serious and action which permanently changes others - there was an immediate concern that HM2 was simply using rape as a metaphor.
It sounds like the HM2 team actually want to tackle rape culture and sexualized violence in Hotline Miami 2, and if that's the case, most detractors and feminists would probably change their mind and support the narrative format. As long as the narrative took sexual violence seriously (and, obviously, it would), I think there's definitely room for the scene.[/QUOTE]
How is rape any less worse than killing men who probably have families and children? Or murder in general and the connections it severs and psychological impact it has on others. The only reason people are freaking out about this is because our society has always seen violence as more acceptable then sex, mixing the two is "outrageous" even tho violence always implies psychological impact in the universe/fiction it is present in. The universe doesn't have to point that out, it doesn't go and show the psychological impact of killing the possible father of four, but people get killed. And people get raped.
[QUOTE]Developer Dennis Wedin isn’t shying away from this controversy, nor being [B]pig-headed [/B]about it. [/QUOTE]
Oh you!
People need to get the fuck over it. Devs shouldn't be pressured to remove shit from their game.
[QUOTE=lifehole;42103495]How is rape any less worse than killing men who probably have families and children? Or murder in general and the connections it severs and psychological impact it has on others. The only reason people are freaking out about this is because our society has always seen violence as more acceptable then sex, mixing the two is "outrageous" even tho violence always implies psychological impact in the universe/fiction it is present in. The universe doesn't have to point that out, it doesn't go and show the psychological impact of killing the possible father of four, but people get killed. And people get raped.[/QUOTE]
Rape isn't sex, and rape is strongly misunderstood within society. It's not necessarily commonly understood that rape leads to a variety of intense psychological issues, ranging from PTSD (which, again, has a [i]long[/i] history of being misunderstood and trivialized as a mental health disorder) to depression and anxiety (again, largely misunderstood and trivialized in modern culture). People are upset because rape often isn't given the proper respect it deserves within society, and cultural representations of rape continuously perpetuate the notion that rape isn't a serious topic. Whereas, while our culture might also downplay the impact of violence and murder, virtually [i][b]everyone[/b][/i] can agree that the death of a loved one is a serious and upsetting issue.
Not everyone can agree that rape is a serious and upsetting subject.
Also rape isn't necessarily comparable to murder. Many rape victims commit suicide - 33% have suicidal thoughts, rape victims are 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide, and 13 times more likely to actually attempt it - because they would rather deal with death than the psychological ramifications of surviving a rape. It's like comparing torture and murder. Many individuals would rather die than experience the agonizing, tormenting nature of some of the world's most horrifying torture sequences.
[QUOTE=Reimu;42103861]Rape isn't sex, and rape is strongly misunderstood within society. It's not necessarily commonly understood that rape leads to a variety of intense psychological issues, ranging from PTSD (which, again, has a [i]long[/i] history of being misunderstood and trivialized as a mental health disorder) to depression and anxiety (again, largely misunderstood and trivialized in modern culture). People are upset because rape often isn't given the proper respect it deserves within society, and cultural representations of rape continuously perpetuate the notion that rape isn't a serious topic. Whereas, while our culture might also downplay the impact of violence and murder, virtually [i][b]everyone[/b][/i] can agree that the death of a loved one is a serious and upsetting issue.
Not everyone can agree that rape is a serious and upsetting subject.
Also rape isn't necessarily comparable to murder. Many rape victims commit suicide - 33% have suicidal thoughts, rape victims are 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide, and 13 times more likely to actually attempt it - because they would rather deal with death than the psychological ramifications of surviving a rape. It's like comparing torture and murder. Many individuals would rather die than experience the agonizing, tormenting nature of some of the world's most horrifying torture sequences.[/QUOTE]
are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that rape is literally worse than murder? like, holy shit
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;42103508]People need to get the fuck over it. Devs shouldn't be pressured to remove shit from their game.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with this normally but then ME3 happened.
Stand by your work Dennaton. Don't remove it.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;42104030]are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that rape is literally worse than murder? like, holy shit[/QUOTE]
There's nothing absurd about the claim, it's mostly about the difference between the continuation and ceasing of suffering.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;42104030]are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that rape is literally worse than murder? like, holy shit[/QUOTE]
[quote] rape isn't necessarily comparable to murder.[/quote]
[quote]It's like comparing torture and murder. Many individuals would rather die than experience the agonizing, tormenting nature of some of the world's most horrifying torture sequences.[/quote]
I clearly said they're not comparable. One is a form of lifelong psychological torture, the other is the taking of another person's life. They're two very different, very real forms of loss.
But it should be pretty obvious that rape is a form of prolonged and extreme suffering. There's a reason why there's a long history of female combat nurses given cyanide/suicide capsules. Some even speculate that Cleopatra had a reserve of poison to prevent sexual assault after a coup de etat.
It's not a philosophical comparison. I'm expressing the fact that one is inherently taken more seriously than another in our society and culture. We don't victim-blame murder victims the way we victim-blame rape victims, among a plethora of issues where consent, sexual harassment, and other umbrella issues are ignored. If someone dies from a murder, their death is seen as a shock and a severe loss. If someone is raped, many voices start to pop up suggesting that the victim played a role in (or caused) the assault's existence.
[editline]7th September 2013[/editline]
Regardless, it's clear that Dennaton is going to focus on sexual violence and sexuality within Hotline Miami. The director's comments - and the fact that he has a significant character development in the story - suggest that, and this article expresses that the rape scene is just one piece from a larger story arc.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;42104030]are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that rape is literally worse than murder? like, holy shit[/QUOTE]
It's kind of hard to make a good argument about that, though. I mean, on the one hand, rape victims usually survive. On the other hand, rape victims usually survive. You see what I mean?
No subject should be off limits to artistic representation, however, context, tone, and an elements place in the larger work should all be considered when deciding whether or not the inclusion of something is appropriate.
Dennaton themselves are obviously unsure whether or not it's appropriate and are reconsidering that. Trying to paint this this as them "bowing to censorship" or "giving in to offended people" is really goddamn dumb you guys so cut that out
Who invited Sarkesian to this thread?
The dev pointed out one problem right at the beginning of the article, it can be triggering for rape victims.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;42113102]The dev pointed out one problem right at the beginning of the article, it can be triggering for rape victims.[/QUOTE]To be fair, every second of Hotline Miami is a trigger of some sort.
Hell; that scene of a man rendered helpless by drugs slowly being beaten to death, while he pleads that he just wants to go home, has to be one of the more intense things I've seen in recent gaming. And I've only got to watch snippets of it.
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