• Venezuela's government is trying to remove the opposition's democratically elected deputies.
    21 replies, posted
[quote]Secretary General of opposition umbrella group Unified Democratic Panel (MUD), Jesús Torrealba, denounced that the Electoral Court of the Supreme Tribunal of Justice (TSJ) admitted an action filed by ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) that seeks to contest the election of 22 opposition deputies who won a seat at Congress in the December 6 parliament vote. Torrealba rejected the move, saying that it was "a judicial coup attempt by PSUV." "This is ambush from the government (...) which seeks to win at the desks of the bureaucracy what it was not able to win at the ballots."[/quote] [url=http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/151222/mud-denounces-judicial-coup-attempt-to-contest-opposition-deputies]Source[/url] MUD's press conference (in Spanish): [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxIIRFHFzp8[/media] (More sources to come, it's breaking news) The ride never ends, folks.
The salt, there is so much
Try the PSUV for treason.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49370640]Try the PSUV for treason.[/QUOTE] The PSUV owns the equivalent of the Supreme Court for Venezuela. This is why they were able to do this in the first place. There should not be a single power more powerful than the Legislative, but due to the separation of powers in Venezuela, the government is able to find absurd loopholes to circumvent democracy. They did something similar in the 2009 referendum that failed, yet was passed partially by the National Assembly and the TSJ without problem.
So Big Bang... IF this happens this will be fuse that ignites Venezuela into civil war... Do you think that, too?
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;49370710]So Big Bang... IF this happens this will be fuse that ignites Venezuela into civil war... Do you think that, too?[/QUOTE] Why are you permanently wishing for the worst case scenarios to happen?
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49370712]Why are you permanently wishing for the worst case scenarios to happen?[/QUOTE] I actually don't know... Edit: Actually nevermind the newly elected will fight tooth and nail for this to not happen... It just right now it feels like a shitty thing the PSUV to do... Like this is going to continue on for more that it should
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;49370753]I actually don't know...[/QUOTE] Well just so you know, that's not gonna happen. And if it ever will happen, I don't see it stemming from civil and democratic actions. If the government goes through with this, there will be consequences, there will be serious international repercussions, they will lose popularity, they will most definitely not stay in power for long. It is a suicidal move.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49370777]Well just so you know, that's not gonna happen. And if it ever will happen, I don't see it stemming from civil and democratic actions. If the government goes through with this, there will be consequences, there will be serious international repercussions, they will lose popularity, they will most definitely not stay in power for long. It is a suicidal move.[/QUOTE] there is nothing civil or democratic about denying your democracy through abuse of power you overestimate how much the international community cares
[QUOTE=bitches;49370819]there is nothing civil or democratic about denying your democracy through abuse of power you overestimate how much the international community cares[/QUOTE] i think his point is that a civil war is extremely unlikely, because for the most part i don't see venezuela descending into one quite a few countries will notice if it does though
[QUOTE=bitches;49370819]there is nothing civil or democratic about denying your democracy through abuse of power you overestimate how much the international community cares[/QUOTE] They [I]must[/I] care, this is unprecedented if it goes through. The government has removed democratically elected officers before, and it has done para-legal things, but never to this scale. If this goes through, this is grounds to remove Venezuela from Mercosur, for example, it's also grounds for UN sanctions, it's grounds for summoning the OEA's democratic clause. I know these are things that have been threatened to be enacted before, but this is a clear cut example of when should 'the democratic clause' be taken in consideration. There is no other option, I mean, we can't play the government's game, if we want to re-establish democracy in Venezuela it has to be done by the books. If the government chooses to play dirty we must not follow them in doing so.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49370866]They [I]must[/I] care, this is unprecedented if it goes through. The government has removed democratically elected officers before, and it has done para-legal things, but never to this scale. If this goes through, this is grounds to remove Venezuela from Mercosur, for example, it's also grounds for UN sanctions, it's grounds for summoning the OEA's democratic clause. I know these are things that have been threatened to be enacted before, but this is a clear cut example of when should 'the democratic clause' be taken in consideration. There is no other option, I mean, we can't play the government's game, if we want to re-establish democracy in Venezuela it has to be done by the books. If the government chooses to play dirty we must not follow them in doing so.[/QUOTE] if helping your country internationally isn't in economic favour it will not happen if your own citizens won't take action against corruption, why should anyone else?
[QUOTE=bitches;49370918]if helping your country internationally isn't in economic favour it will not happen if your own citizens won't take action against corruption, why should anyone else?[/QUOTE] Oh believe me our own citizens have made a stance against corruption. Illogically, the officers that are there to prevent corruption aren't democratically elected, that is, the Citizen branch (People's defender, comptroller) and the Judicial branch (TSJ), the largest democratically elected body in Venezuela is the National Assembly, our congress, or parliament. On the 6th of December, the Venezuelan people did just that, they elected 112 deputies, over the government's 55 deputies, a 2/3rds majority, sufficient to enact laws, and impeach officials, an overwhelming majority of Venezuelans have voted for a change in government. I find it offensive that you think Venezuelan citizens aren't doing anything to help themselves, when what was accomplished on that past election was unprecedented as well.
Wasn't the U.S. Open up talks with Venezuela after this election. So having a Major Power see you are trying to subvert democracy will not go well for the PSUV.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49371035]Oh believe me our own citizens have made a stance against corruption. Illogically, the officers that are there to prevent corruption aren't democratically elected, that is, the Citizen branch (People's defender, comptroller) and the Judicial branch (TSJ), the largest democratically elected body in Venezuela is the National Assembly, our congress, or parliament. On the 6th of December, the Venezuelan people did just that, they elected 112 deputies, over the government's 55 deputies, a 2/3rds majority, sufficient to enact laws, and impeach officials, an overwhelming majority of Venezuelans have voted for a change in government. I find it offensive that you think Venezuelan citizens aren't doing anything to help themselves, when what was accomplished on that past election was unprecedented as well.[/QUOTE] i'm speaking purely in future tense regard for response to the government's current proposal to disregard democratic process
[QUOTE=bitches;49371493]i'm speaking purely in future tense regard for response to the government's current proposal to disregard democratic process[/QUOTE] This happened merely hours ago, there's nothing to do right now other than communicate the international community that this has happened. Measures about this will be taken in the upcoming days as more is known.
[QUOTE=bitches;49371493]i'm speaking purely in future tense regard for response to the government's current proposal to disregard democratic process[/QUOTE] and what makes you so sure of this exactly? i mean quite a few countries have already commented on the shit that's been going on in venezuela not to mention that despite a multitude of hurdles the venezuelan people are actually having some success at curbing the corruption and excesses of the government and it's very likely they will get substantial international support if Maduro decides to go locking up more political rivals or something
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49371634]and what makes you so sure of this exactly? i mean quite a few countries have already commented on the shit that's been going on in venezuela not to mention that despite a multitude of hurdles the venezuelan people are actually having some success at curbing the corruption and excesses of the government and it's very likely they will get substantial international support if Maduro decides to go locking up more political rivals or something[/QUOTE] I made no claim about the future of Venezuela, only scepticism against the dedication of the international community to intervene.
[QUOTE=bitches;49371849]I made no claim about the future of Venezuela, only scepticism against the dedication of the international community to intervene.[/QUOTE] Seems odd to think when quite a few countries would almost certainly intervene if the situation took a turn for the worst. You said earlier that the citizens don't take action against corruption when it is obvious that they do so already. The international community knows that.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49373713]Seems odd to think when quite a few countries would almost certainly intervene if the situation took a turn for the worst. You said earlier that the citizens don't take action against corruption when it is obvious that they do so already. The international community knows that.[/QUOTE] No I didn't. I proposed the hypothetical that they don't, if they were to, as big bang suggested, do nothing if the democratic process completely fails and simply wait for other governments to help. It's like you're trying to be oblivious to context.
[QUOTE=bitches;49373929]No I didn't. I proposed the hypothetical that they don't, if they were to, as big bang suggested, do nothing if the democratic process completely fails and simply wait for other governments to help. It's like you're trying to be oblivious to context.[/QUOTE] Iunno, I don't think he was overestimating how much the international community cares. Quite a few news outlets and countries were at least aware of the election and the problems in Venezuela earlier this month. The usa already has put sanctions on a number of officials in the Venezuelan government.
Again all the blame will fall on the 'empire' as usual. Sometimes I think all chavistas saw too much Star Wars this last 30 years. I'm more worried as who will play the role of the stormtroopers on this movie.
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