• 91 year-old woman maybe to be charged for over 260,000 Auschwitz deaths
    89 replies, posted
[quote]The 91-year-old woman, a resident of Schleswig-Holstein, is accused of having been an [I]SS radio operator[/I] at Auschwitz from April to July 1944. Although her involvement in the mass killings at the camp may have been peripheral as a female member of the SS, prosecutors argue she can be held accountable because she helped the camp function. There is currently [I]no indication[/I] the 91-year-old woman is [I]unfit[/I] to stand trial, Heinz Döllel, a spokesman for prosecutors, told reporters.[/quote] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11880691/91-year-old-woman-charged-over-260000-Auschwitz-deaths.html[/url] [url]http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-09-22/woman-91-charged-over-260-000-nazi-murder-allegations/[/url] I personally disagree with doing this - she's 91 years old now just leave her be
Fucking witch hunters.
By that logic every German citizen of tax paying age at that time should be brought to trial too, as they paid taxes, which gave money to the government, which helped said camps function.
The hunt for former Nazis, willing or not, is insane. Seriously, most of the survivors out there are at least in their late 80's. Just leave them the fuck alone.
A book keeper, then a radio operator.. I feel like theyre grasping at straws at the moment
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48737723]A book keeper, than a radio operator.. I feel like theyre grasping at straws at the moment[/QUOTE] They are.
I personally do not see the reason to conduct investigations like these to find people who are more than likely in their 80's or 90's to charge them for events at Auschwitz. It might be in good intentions, and I can understand that, but it's pointless. These people are old, and more than likely will pass away soon. It's pointless to conduct investigations like these/
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;48737719]The hunt for former Nazis, willing or not, is insane. Seriously, most of the survivors out there are at least in their late 80's. Just leave them the fuck alone.[/QUOTE] I don't like that idea. You don't get away with murder simply because it your involvement was undetected for 50 years - and you're now in old age... you should still be prosecuted. But being a radio operator for the SS counts as involvement in war crimes? That's a bit far fetched.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48737723]A book keeper, then a radio operator.. I feel like theyre grasping at straws at the moment[/QUOTE] Next they're going after the maintenance personnel. "So you used to change lightbulbs in Auschwitz? You're a monster, 300.000 years jail, no parole".
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;48737719]The hunt for former Nazis, willing or not, is insane. Seriously, most of the survivors out there are at least in their late 80's. Just leave them the fuck alone.[/QUOTE] I say don't leave them alone but don't do this stupid shit either. Make them tell their stories.
I wonder what the point is doing this to such old people? I guess they wanna make a statement saying "no matter how old you are, you're never too old to pay for crimes"?? Seems pointless and retarded at this point.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;48737707]By that logic every German citizen of tax paying age at that time should be brought to trial too, as they paid taxes, which gave money to the government, which helped said camps function.[/QUOTE] I think the camps pretty much paid for themselves.
I realize I don't understand the real depth of everything involved. But a fucking radio operator? Really? And one who might not live to see the trial?
I'm getting pretty sick of the fact that many facepunchers think being old excuses someone from a crime. It's kinda like excusing Saville from raping those women because "oh it happened 30-40 years ago just leave him alone". Sure going after book keepers and radio operators is kinda silly but my point still stands
The Nazis already got away with it. The only thing this might cause is (ironically) anti-semitism.
[QUOTE=CrucialSeBBi;48737983]I'm getting pretty sick of the fact that many facepunchers think being old excuses someone from a crime. It's kinda like excusing Saville from raping those women because "oh it happened 30-40 years ago just leave him alone". Sure going after book keepers and radio operators is kinda silly but my point still stands[/QUOTE] The point is that this is a waste of resources. These people won't live more than 10 years into their sentence. It makes an example out of them but ultimately they're going after people that may or may not have had a choice. Positions such as book keeping or radio operation, those were essential to the military at the time. If you refused to do it, they'd find someone who would, then kill you and your entire family. They needed someone to do those jobs and those who didn't were replaced.
Christ soon they're going run out of people that worked in the camp and have to start hunting those that vaguely knew the camp existed. Who honestly is putting all the money forth for these witch hunts, its not like something that takes a small amount of time to put together.
[QUOTE=archival;48738091]Christ soon they're going run out of people that worked in the camp and have to start hunting those that vaguely knew the camp existed. Who honestly is putting all the money forth for these witch hunts, its not like something that takes a small amount of time to put together.[/QUOTE] I fail to see how it's a witch hunt. She worked at a place that murdered men, women or children by the thousands. She knew as well as anyone what was going on. [editline]22nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=zombini;48738076] Positions such as book keeping or radio operation, those were essential to the military at the time. If you refused to do it, they'd find someone who would, then kill you and your entire family. They needed someone to do those jobs and those who didn't were replaced.[/QUOTE] That's such bullshit. You could request a transfer if you where unable to function in your job. They didn't kill you and your family. Even soldiers in the SS conducting massacres in the country side could opt out of the killing if they wanted too.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48738150]I fail to see how it's a witch hunt. She worked at a place that murdered men, women or children by the thousands. She knew as well as anyone what was going on.[/QUOTE] So what, either you die a martyr after turning yourself on the whole third reich or you are a murderer of thousands?
[QUOTE=zombini;48738076] Positions such as book keeping or radio operation, those were essential to the military at the time. If you refused to do it, they'd find someone who would, then kill you and your entire family. They needed someone to do those jobs and those who didn't were replaced.[/QUOTE] You obviously only know how Nazis work from a hollywood point of view.
[QUOTE=proch;48738028]The Nazis already got away with it. The only thing this might cause is (ironically) anti-semitism.[/QUOTE] You're implying anti-semitism is something they don't want. If people stopped hating the Jews, how would they be able to pull the "remember the 60 million" card?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48738189]You're implying anti-semitism is something they don't want. If people stopped hating the Jews, how would they be able to pull the "remember the 60 million" card?[/QUOTE] We occupied up that country because 70 years ago, Europeans killed us!
A part of me says it's a good thing to do justice for any crime, but at this age is kinda useless. You will throw them in jail, then the feeling of " I did something right kicks in". Justice is justice but I don't see how this solves anything. I wonder what will happen when everyone involved on the Nazi Regime in any way dies of old age.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here, if she played no part in actually killing people which we assume she didn't, she is only guilty by association. What modern day Government is not guilty by association standing by whilst countless Syrians are murdered and millions displaced, the list could go on forever. This thread is about having to turn a blind eye for example: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1486628[/url]
You don't get off the hook because the crime may have happened many years ago. Regardless, the trial hasn't even begun yet so I'm not sure what the problem is. The entire purpose of a trial is to determine guilt so it shouldn't be a problem if it's fairly conducted. [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48738189]You're implying anti-semitism is something they don't want. If people stopped hating the Jews, how would they be able to pull the "remember the 60 million" card?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if this is a joke or if you're actually worryingly deranged. [editline]22nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=karlosfandango;48738274]Just playing Devil's Advocate here, if she played no part in actually killing people which we assume she didn't, she is only guilty by association. What modern day Government is not guilty by association standing by whilst countless Syrians are murdered and millions displaced, the list could go on forever. This thread is about having to turn a blind eye for example: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1486628[/url][/QUOTE] Ridiculous. You're saying that all the countries of earth (besides the coalition countries that are bombing in Syria right now?) are guilty of war crimes because they're [b]not[/b] intervening in Syria? That's not an analogy to this case at all. Every citizen of Nazi Germany isn't guilty of genocide complicity due to [b]not[/b] being involved. A better analogy would be that Russia is complicit in war crimes due to their continued material and financial support of the Assad regime.
I lost ancestors during the Holocaust, and even I think that this is fucking retarded. Leave the lady alone, Christ alive.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48738279]You don't get off the hook because the crime may have happened many years ago. Regardless, the trial hasn't even begun yet so I'm not sure what the problem is. The entire purpose of a trial is to determine guilt so it shouldn't be a problem if it's fairly conducted. I'm not sure if this is a joke or if you're actually worryingly deranged. [editline]22nd September 2015[/editline] Ridiculous. You're saying that all the countries of earth (besides the coalition countries that are bombing in Syria right now?) are guilty of war crimes because they're [b]not[/b] intervening in Syria? That's not an analogy to this case at all. Every citizen of Nazi Germany isn't guilty of genocide complicity due to [b]not[/b] being involved. A better analogy would be that Russia is complicit in war crimes due to their continued material and financial support of the Assad regime.[/QUOTE] The Assad regime, rightly or wrongly IS the government, so Russia are supporting them. We on the other hand have backed the rebels, been instrumental in creating ISIS and now we pretty much sit on the fence. Your analogy might better suit your point of view, but it's wrong.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;48737733]I don't like that idea. You don't get away with murder simply because it your involvement was undetected for 50 years - and you're now in old age... you should still be prosecuted. But being a radio operator for the SS counts as involvement in war crimes? That's a bit far fetched.[/QUOTE] People always forget that it was world war. This stuff isnt as simple as saying its straight murder. Situations a lot more fucked up and complex than that which is why stories like this are stupid as fuck. This wasnt some SS going into homes killing or arresting "inferiors" which I would straight up agree is murder and should be prosecuted, but a radio operator, nah. I mean it was still a war, and a world war at that. We literally dropped a fucking nuke on people and it killed more than its intended target, yet the guy who dropped is wasnt prosecuted. So another part is just the hypocrisy and tastelessness of going after people who fought a god damn world war decades ago. I doubt that women grew up perfectly content with what she did. Same goes for I would think a lot of people involved at the time.
[QUOTE=proch;48738171]So what, either you die a martyr after turning yourself on the whole third reich or you are a murderer of thousands?[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? If you where not able to participate mass killing operations they normally transferred you out. The Nazi's knew of the massive physiological trauma caused by executions and wanted people who could carry it out effectively. There where several high ranking Einsatzgruppen commanders who had to be removed for periods of time after becoming unable to continue work due to mental breakdowns. [editline]22nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48738457]People always forget that it was world war. This stuff isnt as simple as saying its straight murder. Situations a lot more fucked up and complex than that which is why stories like this are stupid as fuck. This wasnt some SS going into homes killing or arresting "inferiors" which I would straight up agree is murder and should be prosecuted, but a radio operator, nah. I mean it was still a war, and a world war at that. We literally dropped a fucking nuke on people and it killed more than its intended target, yet the guy who dropped is wasnt prosecuted. So another part is just the hypocrisy and tastelessness of going after people who fought a god damn world war decades ago. I doubt that women grew up perfectly content with what she did. Same goes for I would think a lot of people involved at the time.[/QUOTE] The reasons behind holocaust and the dropping of two nuclear bombs are not comparable. You can argue the morality of dropping the bombs but the two situations are entirely different. One the same note, no Axis leaders where prosecuted for the bombing of civilian areas, because it was prevalent on both sides. Same as with prosecuting for unrestricted submarine warfare. Both sides committed the same offense. Regarding death camps it is as simple as straight up murder.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48738505]What are you talking about? If you where not able to participate mass killing operations they normally transferred you out. The Nazi's knew of the massive physiological trauma caused by executions and wanted people who could carry it out effectively. There where several high ranking Einsatzgruppen commanders who had to be removed for periods of time after becoming unable to continue work due to mental breakdowns.[/QUOTE] But she was only a radio operator. Most of the people who were allowed to be transferred were in the execution squads, as far as I know.
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