Award winning feminist filmmaker began to doubt her beliefs while making "The Red Pill"… now funding
151 replies, posted
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[quote]Jaye has some heavy-duty credentials: she won the 2010 “best documentary” award at the Cannes film festival with her film Daddy I Do and sympathetically covered gay marriage in a second well-received documentary, The Right to Love: An American Family.
Jaye describes her latest project, The Red Pill, as “a fly-on-the-wall film about men’s rights activists.” But, she says, at some point during filming the process morphed into her journey through ideologies opposing feminism. What makes the film unique is that it will document her “chipping away at long held beliefs, as my worldview changed within the first month,” a process captured, she says, through video diaries which will be included in the film.
The name of the movie is internet slang, taken from the Matrix franchise. It describes the process of “waking up” and accepting reality, even if it is hard to do, or you are presented with facts in direct opposition to closely-held beliefs. Jaye intends her movie to include a “where am I now” section to discuss how the film-making process has changed her personally.
The underlying suggestion in all of this, of course, is that she has come to sympathise with the men’s movement and jettisoned a lot of received feminist wisdom.
As a result, Jaye has seen her funding dry up. One observer told Breitbart that grants and funding have been withdrawn and institutional support revoked.
Jaye is concerned about funding the film with angel investors, who she says often want creative control: “We weren’t finding executive producers who wanted to take a balanced approach, we found people who wanted to make a feminist film.”
The second option was funding via grants. Jaye says, “I started to see the bias towards women’s films and against men’s. There are no categories for men’s films though there are several for women and minorities. I submitted the film to human rights categories, and was rejected by all of them.”
According to Jaye, her sincerely-held opinions on the men’s rights movement have made her movie almost unfundable and support has dried up: “Films that support one side and act as propaganda do better than those that try to have an honest look. I won’t be getting support from feminists. They want a hit piece and I won’t do that. ”
[b]Fellow interviewee Dean Esmay agrees: “Cassie’s film will not see the light of day without substantial anti-establishment support. I expect feminists to do everything possible to shun her and my observation was that she was being ‘Mean Girl’d’.”
“This is a talented woman with two very well made and well received professional documentaries under her belt. How could they not support her even if parts of this might make them uncomfortable?” he questioned. “But honestly they’re going to have to be shamed into that, they absolutely will not support the film otherwise. I firmly predict that even if she gets the funding there will be efforts to sabotage her in the indie documentary distribution chain. I would almost guarantee it.”[/b][/quote]
The fact that such an accomplished filmmaker is going to Kickstarter due to a lack of funding is absolutely insane.
And before the mods ban me for posting Breitbart, the filmmaker in question posted this article herself on her Facebook page. [b]If you're expecting The Guardian to write about this issue, it's not going to happen. This is the only source and it's being cited by the respected filmmaker herself.[/b]
[url]http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/10/26/the-red-pill-filmmaker-started-to-doubt-her-feminist-beliefs-now-her-movie-is-at-risk/[/url]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/f8uetxs.png[/t]
Doesn't really help that it's titled after a shitty reddit sub known for being very anti-equality.
[quote]This is the only source and it's being cited by the respected filmmaker herself.[/quote]
Aaaaaaand that's why I have my doubts
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48988442]Aaaaaaand that's why I have my doubts[/QUOTE]
Why does it say "respected" in a way that seems to obnoxiously force itself onto the reader?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48988464]Why does it say "respected" in a way that seems to obnoxiously force itself onto the reader?[/QUOTE]
Because I'm at risk of getting banned, and I don't want to get banned. This isn't just some guy with a camcorder pushing an agenda. This is why "banned sources" is a terrible idea.
[video=youtube;HK7n_XA40V8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7n_XA40V8[/video]
Here's the Kickstarter.
[url]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film/[/url]
I appreciate her honesty. There are legitimate mens issues that extreme feminist groups will not aknowledge due to it not fitting their victim narrative. I hope she gets the funding she needs.
If this is true, then that's sad. Perhaps actual redpillers will come together and fund her movie even if it's negative about them. That'd be and interesting story.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48988509]If this is true, then that's sad. Perhaps actual redpillers will come together and fund her movie even if it's negative about them. That'd be and interesting story.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with redpillers besides the title which is really confusing.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48988517]It doesn't seem to have anything to do with redpillers besides the title which is really confusing.[/QUOTE]
Given that it seems to be more about a process of self-discovery, and the poster up there, I'd say it's about her taking "The Red Pill" of sorts.
Let's be honest
Woman being framed into a weaker position throughout history has also given them an advantage in certain scenarios, more specifically, things related to parental custody.
Please, before any stupid human being comes in bashing me with the phrase "Bu bu but women are still oppressed! That's an effect of patriarchy!"
No, I'm not saying women are not oppressed in many parts of the world or being put aside just because they're women. But the facts are there, and its undeniable that many men suffer due to that, and the problem is, nobody speaks about that (Just check SH thread about men being abused).
One part being discriminated, doesn't mean, whether more or less, that we should ignore the discrimination suffered by the other part.
And yes, check out for example the documentary "Borrando a Papa" from Argentina. Completely censored on grounds that it "promotes violence against women" and "discriminates against women".
EDIT: Hell
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/get-a-job-judge-tells-woman-living-off-divorce-payments-from-millionaire-ex-husband-10066271.html[/url]
Look at that. Of course it's an extreme case, but I imagine there are millions of these cases around the world.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48988517]It doesn't seem to have anything to do with redpillers besides the title which is really confusing.[/QUOTE]
the film title is named after the same concept that the subreddit is named after, but other than that their subject matter is on completely opposite ends of the spectrum
if you've ever visited the subreddit it's pretty fucked up
[QUOTE=aznz888;48988557]the film title is named after the same concept that the subreddit is named after, but other than that their subject matter is on completely opposite ends of the spectrum
if you've ever visited the subreddit it's pretty fucked up[/QUOTE]
I know that it's a reference to Matrix but in the context of gender movements, naming something red pill isn't a good idea. In this field it has a really negative meaning.
The "Red Pill" was originally an ironic meme...
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48988594]The "Red Pill" was originally an ironic meme...[/QUOTE]
It's like how the PC Masterrace thing was actually just a joke. Poe's law people.
[QUOTE=aznz888;48988557]the film title is named after the same concept that the subreddit is named after, but other than that their subject matter is on completely opposite ends of the spectrum
if you've ever visited the subreddit it's pretty fucked up[/QUOTE]
So it's like Gamergate?
Unfortunately these guys have no allies. Men look at them and either ridicule them because "we have it good" (on mostly everything, except the bad stuff, which is REALLY REALLY BAD) or they don't want to have the stigma of "meninism" and gender activists ridicule them because "men already have rights" or they say "well feminism includes those issues too!"
Egalitarians are on point with these issues, but the feminists label them as anti-feminists because "why don't you just identify as a feminist if you believe in equality?"
Then there's the issue of the "progressive stack" where the people who are most oppressed get to speak first, and men are obviously last on that list. They want to hear from the mentally handicapped black trans woman missing a leg, then they want to hear from the mentally handicapped black trans woman with all her limbs.
[video=youtube;SCwhlZtHhWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCwhlZtHhWs[/video]
Goddamn, that video makes me angry. I'm still upset over how the Occupy movement got co opted by these people that turned an anti establishment demonstration against Wall Street into talking about anything and everything, including rights and cultural acceptance for otherkins and other crazy shit.
[QUOTE=Venom Snake;48988618]Unfortunately these guys have no allies. Men look at them and either ridicule them because "we have it good" (on mostly everything, except the bad stuff, which is REALLY REALLY BAD) or they don't want to have the stigma of "meninism" and gender activists ridicule them because "men already have rights" or they say "well feminism includes those issues too!"
Egalitarians are on point with these issues, but the feminists label them as anti-feminists because "why don't you just identify as a feminist if you believe in equality?"
Then there's the issue of the "progressive stack" where the people who are most oppressed get to speak first, and men are obviously last on that list. They want to hear from the mentally handicapped black trans woman missing a leg, then they want to hear from the mentally handicapped black trans woman with all her limbs.
[video=youtube;SCwhlZtHhWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCwhlZtHhWs[/video]
Goddamn, that video makes me angry. I'm still upset over how the Occupy movement got co opted by these people that turned an anti establishment demonstration against Wall Street into talking about anything and everything, including rights and cultural acceptance for otherkins and other crazy shit.[/QUOTE]
That's what happens when you have a leaderless movement. Sad but true.
anyone considered she's had to "publicly take back her opinions" in order to gain their trust and make a hard hitting documentary about how shitty these dudes are
[editline]26th October 2015[/editline]
brand new account posting controversial news with no reliable source also seems suspect, but maybe just to me
The naivete of trying to explore gender issues by associating yourself with a rapidly-radicalizing borderline hate-group.
yes there are problems that men face that aren't often considered by major feminist groups, the way to solve that is to demonstrate gender inequality using a massive fabric of academic feminism to back yourself up and start some discussions about those inequalities in an academic environment where they can be debated and talked about until majority opinion changes and people more readily accept that there are inequalities facing men as well as women.
the way you don't do that is to make a counter-movement and say "FEMINISM BAD" and start tying yourself to abusive and blatantly inequal models of "good relationships."
feminism led to a realization that being a "real woman" isn't a thing - woman can be promiscuous and not immediately marry and that's okay, you do you, individualism, etc.
TRP does the exact opposite for men - it criticizes and humiliates "beta" guys and praises ultramasculine alpha "real men." if you switched the roles of TRP's stereotypical "beta relationship" type shit, it's about a man controlling a woman through manipulation and even force. it's not about masculinity - it's about nostalgia for early-1900s hypermasculinity.
if she had named this film after anything other than a vehemently anti-feminist movement, she wouldn't have lost her feminist-backed funding. i am very liberal and i would not fund a filmmaker to make a film about the devilish liberal media lies and how reagan is the god of politics. why is this different in any way?
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48988939]
the way you don't do that is to make a counter-movement and say "FEMINISM BAD" and start tying yourself to abusive and blatantly inequal models of "good relationships."[/QUOTE]
A movement called FEMinism isn't properly dealing with mens issues. Makes sense that there would be a cultural backlash to it
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;48988889]anyone considered she's had to "publicly take back her opinions" in order to gain their trust and make a hard hitting documentary about how shitty these dudes are[/QUOTE]
Doubt it. She's built a reputation for being a competent documentary filmmaker and I doubt she'll have any problems financing her work in the future through crowdfunding. Also Hollywood types aren't ones to hold a grudge for more than the time a single project takes.
Also, when you're researching these issues and going to the people who actually matter in a political movement, you're hearing the well spoken and coherent ones versus some guy picketing off the street.
Can't wait to see her interview in the film.
[video=youtube;nvYyGTmcP80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80[/video]
-fuck it, snip-
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;48988889]
brand new account posting controversial news with no reliable source also seems suspect, but maybe just to me[/QUOTE]
No reliable source? If other outlets are reporting on it, I don't have alternatives. Also, a source citing a first party interview is pretty reliable. As reliable as you can get without one of those venture capitalist organizations to come out and say "we didn't fund her film because we don't agree with it"
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48988950]A movement called FEMinism isn't properly dealing with mens issues. Makes sense that there would be a cultural backlash to it[/QUOTE]
Feminism is rooted in women's equality movement, so yes, it's named after femininity.
If the name is so frustrating to you, call yourself egalitarian, if you really have to insist. I prefer to consider feminism equal to the "gender equality movement," because it has been synonymous with that for the last couple decades. Or consider it a movement for femininity, not women, and you lose even more of the stigma - feminine men, straight or gay or any other sexuality, tend to appreciate feminism more than hypermasculine ones.
I'm a male feminist - are you saying that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I won't deal with men's issues? I regularly bring up men's gender issues in discussions with other feminists, because I wholeheartedly agree that it's under-represented, and most other people appreciate that perspective.
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;48988889]anyone considered she's had to "publicly take back her opinions" in order to gain their trust and make a hard hitting documentary about how shitty these dudes are[/QUOTE]Given that it seems the bulk of the documentary is done, and largely not about them, no.
[QUOTE]brand new account posting controversial news with no reliable source also seems suspect, but maybe just to me[/QUOTE]Venom has been around for a couple of months nearly now, they just don't post. Pretty clear by and large they're here because of one particular subject, but not for this article.
Feminism isn't the same as egalitarianism as shown by one simple thing. When an issue is skewed in the direction of men it's a result of the patriarchy and sexim, but when it's skewed in the other direction, then it's not a problem. Take college graduation rates as an example. Women now graduate at a higher rate than men, and it's getting even more skewed as time goes on, but that's not even mentioned. What's mentioned instead? The fact that more men are in certain fields.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48988939]The naivete of trying to explore gender issues by associating yourself with a rapidly-radicalizing borderline hate-group.
yes there are problems that men face that aren't often considered by major feminist groups, the way to solve that is to demonstrate gender inequality using a massive fabric of academic feminism to back yourself up and start some discussions about those inequalities in an academic environment where they can be debated and talked about until majority opinion changes and people more readily accept that there are inequalities facing men as well as women.
the way you don't do that is to make a counter-movement and say "FEMINISM BAD" and start tying yourself to abusive and blatantly inequal models of "good relationships."
feminism led to a realization that being a "real woman" isn't a thing - woman can be promiscuous and not immediately marry and that's okay, you do you, individualism, etc.
TRP does the exact opposite for men - it criticizes and humiliates "beta" guys and praises ultramasculine alpha "real men." if you switched the roles of TRP's stereotypical "beta relationship" type shit, it's about a man controlling a woman through manipulation and even force. it's not about masculinity - it's about nostalgia for early-1900s hypermasculinity.
if she had named this film after anything other than a vehemently anti-feminist movement, she wouldn't have lost her feminist-backed funding. i am very liberal and i would not fund a filmmaker to make a film about the devilish liberal media lies and how reagan is the god of politics. why is this different in any way?[/QUOTE]
you dont have a fucking clue what youre talking about
[QUOTE=sgman91;48989025]Feminism isn't the same as egalitarianism as shown by one simply thing. When an issue is skewed in the direction of men it's a result of the patriarchy and sexim, but when it's skewed in the other direction, then it's not a problem. Take college graduation rates as an example. Women now graduate at a higher rate than men, and it's getting even more skewed as time goes on, but that's not even mentioned. What's mentioned instead? The fact that more men are in certain fields.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, feminism has never been and I don't see why it would ever be about men's issues. Sure, some feminists are aware of men's issues, but they don't really care, not on a large scale. I bet even saying that will get you burned by other feminists. If it's about men in a good light, it's patriarchy by default and need to be removed. No one cares about men passing college less, or men getting fucked by the law or men dying in coal mines.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48989025]Feminism isn't the same as egalitarianism as shown by one simply thing. When an issue is skewed in the direction of men it's a result of the patriarchy and sexim, but when it's skewed in the other direction, then it's not a problem. Take college graduation rates as an example. Women now graduate at a higher rate than men, and it's getting even more skewed as time goes on, but that's not even mentioned. What's mentioned instead? The fact that more men are in certain fields.[/QUOTE]
What isn't discussed is how there are still plenty of traditional families where the woman works from home, or does it part time at most while focusing on the kids.
Every household absolutely needs at least one of those figures, and it's generally men. I live in a pretty liberal and wealthy area, but I can only think of one stay at home dad.
[url]http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-decline-a-rise-in-stay-at-home-mothers/[/url]
When talking about gaps in gender employment and total earnings (notice how I didn't say wage), they explain themselves quite reasonably.
There's still room for improvement in certain fields where legitimate sexism is occurring and needs to stop, but I don't see how feminism is going to solve it if threat of losing their jobs and mandatory training/harassment seminars aren't enough.
[QUOTE=Venom Snake;48989070]What isn't discussed is how there are still plenty of traditional families where the woman works from home, or does it part time at most while focusing on the kids.[/QUOTE]
Is that inherently a problem? There are a lot of women who want to do that.
One of the foundational fallacies in much of feminist thought is that an ideal world without social pressure would result in absolutely equal results in every field. The problem is that there's just no evidence to support that assumption.
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