• Hunter Becomes the Hunted: Elephant kills its hunter
    129 replies, posted
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/17/hunter-ian-gibson-trampled-death-elephant-tracking-kill_n_7085374.html[/url] [IMG]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2848178/thumbs/o-BULL-ELEPHANT-ZIMBABWE-570.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]A professional game hunter has been trampled to death by an elephant while leading a hunt with an American client in Zimbabwe. "Ian was tragically killed by an elephant bull earlier today while guiding an elephant hunt in Chewore North." It adds: “Feeling he was quite close to the elephant, Ian and his tracker Robert continued to follow the tracks in hopes of getting a look at the ivory as the client stayed with the game scout.” Gibson’s tracker indicated the elephant was in “musth” – a condition where the animal’s urge to mate goes into overdrive and it becomes overly aggressive, but Gibson continued. The note continues: “They eventually caught up with the bull, spotting him at about 50-100 metres. The bull instantly turned and began a full charge. “Ian and Robert began shouting in order to stop the charge. At very close range, Ian was able to get off one shot before the bull killed him. The scene was very graphic.” It is not known if the animal was killed in the incident. [/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2848164/thumbs/o-IAN-GIBSON-570.jpg[/IMG]
relephant [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYdEzk6-iOiiZ_kGveag8HW3nWo30ZTinFIUi9L7aXl_ktkrTweg[/IMG]
While I won't celebrate his death, neither will I mourn it. As far as I know, the elephants are in danger of extinction to one degree or another, and having one less person to hunt them isn't bad.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;47553373]While I won't celebrate his death, neither will I mourn it. As far as I know, the elephants are in danger of extinction to one degree or another, and having one less person to hunt them isn't bad.[/QUOTE] They're not in immediate danger of extinction, there's thousands of them [quote=wikipedia]According to the World Wildlife Foundation, in 2014 the total population of African elephants was estimated to be around 700,000, and the Asian elephant population was estimated to be around 32,000. The population of African elephants in Southern Africa is large and expanding, with more than 300,000 within the region; Botswana has 200,000 and Zimbabwe 80,000.[/quote] I still don't approve of the practice but the Elephant is not like the Rhino, most species of which are at critical levels
This was a legal hunt. Elephants are not endangered. This is like cheering the death of a deer or duck hunter.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;47553373]While I won't celebrate his death, neither will I mourn it. As far as I know, the elephants are in danger of extinction to one degree or another, and having one less person to hunt them isn't bad.[/QUOTE] African elephants are doing fine thanks to the efforts of several countries, mostly Kenya, in cracking down on poaching for their ivory. South Africa (and a few others IIRC) have culling programs in place to kill elephants when their population in an area threatens the ecosystem or agriculture. Most of these hunting trips essentially sign a deal with local governments (in this case Zimbabwe) to do their culling for them. The country doesn't have to pay hunters to do the cull, and Western hunters get their opportunity to get gored by a bull in musth.
How unfortunate. This man was not a poacher, celebrating his death is wrong.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553396]This was a legal hunt. Elephants are not endangered. This is like cheering the death of a deer or duck hunter.[/QUOTE] i suggest you read this [url]http://www.worldwildlife.org/species/african-elephant[/url] they are vulnerable, they're not like deer. [url]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140818-elephants-africa-poaching-cites-census/[/url] [QUOTE] [B]100,000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years[/B], Landmark Analysis Finds Central Africa has [B]lost 64 percent[/B] of its elephants in a decade.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lium;47553418]How unfortunate. This man was not a poacher, celebrating his death is wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Robert continued to follow the tracks in hopes of getting a look at the [B]ivory[/B][/QUOTE] i don't think so.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;47553419]i suggest you read this [url]http://www.worldwildlife.org/species/african-elephant[/url] they are vulnerable, they're not like deer. [url]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140818-elephants-africa-poaching-cites-census/[/url] i don't think so.[/QUOTE] So... How does this prove that this was an illegal hunt? Even if poachers are getting at them, this man was not a poacher. This is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553396]This was a legal hunt. Elephants are not endangered. This is like cheering the death of a deer or duck hunter.[/QUOTE] Except deer and duck hunters harvest the bodies of their kills to eat. This was just some rich piece of shit who wanted to kill things for fun.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553444]So... How does this prove that this was an illegal hunt? Even if poachers are getting at them, this man was not a poacher. This is irrelevant.[/QUOTE] it's shouldn't be legal in the first place, fuck him for trying to kill an endangered species.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47553445]Except deer and duck hunters harvest the bodies of their kills to eat. This was just some rich piece of shit who wanted to kill things for fun.[/QUOTE] It said he was a professional hunter; his profession was hunting. This was his livelihood, the same as those who hunt deer and ducks to harvest their resources such as meat or hides to sell. One is not more immoral than the other.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;47553457]it's shouldn't be legal in the first place, fuck him for trying to kill an endangered species.[/QUOTE] Anyone who sees something like an Elephant and thinks, "I want to shoot it to feel cool" is utter scum. Hunters in America that kill deer and ducks and the like have a real purpose. Deer populations can get so high, they start starving to death because there's no food. They (typically) take their kills and process them into lots of meat that they sell or eat themselves. What did this guy do? Drive up in a jeep, shoot it with a large caliber rifle, take some pictures with the corpse, then drive off? Maybe take the tusks too because ivory is an expensive material?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553460]It said he was a professional hunter; his profession was hunting. This was his livelihood, the same as those who hunt deer and ducks to harvest their resources such as meat or hides to sell.[/QUOTE] this is not the same at all, and last i checked, there are other animals that aren't endangered unlike the elephant, he doesn't HAVE to hunt elephants, it was his choice.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553460]It said he was a professional hunter; his profession was hunting. This was his livelihood, the same as those who hunt deer and ducks to harvest their resources such as meat or hides to sell. One is not more immoral than the other.[/QUOTE] One is killing an overpopulated creature and saving the others from a slow, painful death by starvation. The other is driving up in a jeep and popping an endangered species with a huge rifle, taking some pictures, and feeling like you have a big dick for a few minutes. There's no sport to it, it's just straight up killing for the fun of killing.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;47553457]it's shouldn't be legal in the first place, fuck him for trying to kill an endangered species.[/QUOTE] Why should it be illegal? It is the same principle as culling deer when their populations get out of control.
"Nature finds a way" -that guy from godzilla
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553483]Why should it be illegal? It is the same principle as culling deer when their populations get out of control.[/QUOTE] Elephant populations aren't out of control. I don't know what logic you're using here, but it's deeply flawed.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553483]Why should it be illegal? It is the same principle as culling deer when their populations get out of control.[/QUOTE] ya but the problem is you're still killling off a member of an extremely endangered species, potentially destroying genetic diversity and who knows how important any individual elephant may become to future efforts, unless it was sick and dying, it shouldn't have been killed in the first place [editline]18th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Starlight 456;47553493]Elephant populations aren't out of control. I don't know what logic you're using here, but it's deeply flawed.[/QUOTE] i think he's saying that the local (as in the population of the nature preserve) population was too large, but still its not quite good logic since the wild population is still absurdly small
[quote]As their numbers have grown, they have increasingly wandered on to farmland, devastating crops, destroying the livelihoods of poor farmers and occasionally killing people. And even when they stay in the wild, South African National Park officials say, they threaten the survival of more endangered species such as the black rhino and rare antelope by devastating their habitats.[/quote] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/elephant-cull-516117.html[/url] [quote]The park stopped culling elephants in 1994 and tried translocating them, but by 2004 the population had increased to 11,670 elephants, by 2006 to approximately 13,500, by 2009 to 11,672, ad b 2012 to 16,900. The park's habitats can only sustain about 8,000 elephants. The park started using annual contraception in 1995, but has stopped that due to problems with delivering the contraceptives and upsetting the herds.[/quote] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruger_National_Park#Mammals[/url] This is a real and very difficult problem. This is merely statement of fact. [editline]18th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;47553500] i think he's saying that the local (as in the population of the nature preserve) population was too large, but still its not quite good logic since the wild population is still absurdly small[/QUOTE] The alternative is relocation, which is a very difficult prospect considering how expensive it would be to transport them to and protect them at other parts of Africa. A prospect that may be very difficult to afford.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553515][url]http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/elephant-cull-516117.html[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruger_National_Park#Mammals[/url] This is a real and very difficult problem. This is merely statement of fact. [editline]18th April 2015[/editline] The alternative is relocation, which is a very difficult prospect considering how expensive it would be to transport them to and protect them at other parts of Africa. A prospect that may be very difficult to afford.[/QUOTE] People like to think animals are better off without human intervention at all, however it's not that simple as you pointed and if they went looking for that information, controlling population is quite often done and actually prevents illegal hunters among other things.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553515][url]http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/elephant-cull-516117.html[/url] The alternative is relocation, which is a very difficult prospect considering how expensive it would be to transport them to and protect them at other parts of Africa. A prospect that may be very difficult to afford.[/QUOTE] ya like i said, its not exactly a good solution to kill perfectly good elephants because you cannot sustain them, but transport is also very difficult and frankly releasing them to the wild will most certainly lead them to die because elephants are both heard creatures and easily poached its not a good situation, but i also am not exactly thrilled that we still continue the European tradition by letting big game hunters pay to cull animals
Legal western hunters are a major reason that animals like elephants aren't hunted to a head by poachers. They pay for the wildlife reserves. They pay for nearly everything. These animals are in Africa, do you think the government in Zimbabwe could afford to keep them protected by their lonesome? Unless poachers decide to stop poaching, and Africa develops a strong economy, elephants have to die if elephants are going to live. Their populations are closely monitored and only as many tags as can safely be issued are issued. At no point is the survival of this species threatened by legal hunting in the modern world. If you value the life of any wild animal over that of a fellow human being, I pity you.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47553560]ya like i said, its not exactly a good solution to kill perfectly good elephants because you cannot sustain them, but transport is also very difficult and frankly releasing them to the wild will most certainly lead them to die because elephants are both heard creatures and easily poached its not a good situation, but i also am not exactly thrilled that we still continue the European tradition by letting big game hunters pay to cull animals[/QUOTE] It really is a shitty situation, but I don't think that means this man deserves to die.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47553478]One is killing an overpopulated creature and saving the others from a slow, painful death by starvation. The other is driving up in a jeep and popping an endangered species with a huge rifle, taking some pictures, and feeling like you have a big dick for a few minutes. There's no sport to it, it's just straight up killing for the fun of killing.[/QUOTE] That's pretty ironic considering elephants are regularly culled explicitly to prevent overpopulation, which prevents them from razing areas and then dying from starvation. And these culls are conducted by governments which give licenses to hunters, so that the government doesn't have to pay to do the cull (and in fact often [i]gets paid[/i] for the privilege), while the hunters get to shoot something and be doing society a favor at the same time. Maybe try understanding what you're arguing about before getting all high-and-mighty about it. I spent five years in sub-Saharan Africa and you have no idea how big of a problem large elephant herds can be.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553566]It really is a shitty situation, but I don't think that means this man deserves to die.[/QUOTE] no but thats part of the danger in being a big game hunter
elephant overpopulation is a far smaller number than deer overpopulation purely because one elephant has to eat far more than one deer. humans have to take the place of predator as the natural predators are underpopulated or nonexistant. these legal hunts, as said previously, help keep the population in check. if there were none of these hunts, poaching would probably be a bigger issue than it is now since there'd be no legal outlet, anyways. honestly, i think having some rich dude with a killboner spending several thousand dollars on a limited hunt permit is as good of a solution of population control that can be managed. the reserves get people paying to do something that normally would cost them money, that rich dude gets a new ivory chessboard and to say "i killed an elephant", and the rest of the herd don't starve to death or trample innocent people/farms to death, win/win/win scenario (except for the dead elephant)
I don't get why people are so happy about this guy's death. He was a human being and even if you think hunting is immoral I don't see how his life is less valuable than an elephant that wasn't endangered and he was legally hunting.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47553837]elephant overpopulation is a far smaller number than deer overpopulation purely because one elephant has to eat far more than one deer. humans have to take the place of predator as the natural predators are underpopulated or nonexistant. these legal hunts, as said previously, help keep the population in check. if there were none of these hunts, poaching would probably be a bigger issue than it is now since there'd be no legal outlet, anyways. honestly, i think having some rich dude with a killboner spending several thousand dollars on a limited hunt permit is as good of a solution of population control that can be managed. the reserves get people paying to do something that normally would cost them money, that rich dude gets a new ivory chessboard and to say "i killed an elephant", and the rest of the herd don't starve to death or trample innocent people/farms to death, win/win/win scenario (except for the dead elephant)[/QUOTE] Right. I thought elephant hunting was more about the absence of natural predators.
Morals aside, it's pretty fucking metal.
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