• "This sign is a brazen violation of the No Establishment clause of the Constitution" - People angry
    18 replies, posted
[quote]A religiously themed sign on Marine Corps Base Hawaii has come under fire from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and its founder and president, Mikey Weinstein. [B]The sign, which according to base officials was erected after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001, says, "God bless the military, their families and the civilians who work with them." MRFF seeks to have the sign, which is near the base marina, taken down and moved to the grounds of the base chapel.[/B] In a message to Col. Sean C. Killeen, commanding officer of MCB Hawaii, Blake A. Page, special assistant to Weinstein, asserts the sign is inappropriate and illegal. "This sign is a brazen violation of the No Establishment clause of the Constitution, as it sends the clear message that your installation gives preference to those who hold religious beliefs over those who do not, and those who prefer a monotheistic, intervening god over other deities or theologies," Blake wrote. "We recognize the value that religious activity brings to the lives of many, however this sign is not in keeping with the time, place, and manner restrictions required by law [or] for any military commander to bolster religious principles through the official authority given to their rank and position." [B]In an interview, Weinstein said the sign was brought to the attention of MRFF by 23 active-duty Marines, 21 of them Protestant. Weinstein claimed they were unwilling to lodge complaints through their chain of command for fear of reprisal. He said the sign not only is illegal, but damages unit cohesion.[/B] "We have no issue with the message that is being posited with that sign if they move that to the chapel grounds, but it is certainly certainly something that is in violation the No Establishment Clause of the Constitution," Weinstein said. "When it is not on chapel grounds it is divisive. It is elevating the concept of one faith over no faith, which the Supreme Court has made very clear is wrong, and so we have asked the commander — you know this sign is clearly not within the time, place and manner restrictions required by the law — and so [B]we've asked him to move it to the chapel grounds or take off the installation altogether."[/B] A base spokesman said officials there are looking into the matter.[/quote] [url]http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/25/religious-sign-marine-corps-base-hawaii-draws-fire/72804086/[/url]
seems reasonable to move it to the chapel
Agreed.
Moving problems from one place to another really seemed to do the trick this time.
Why did this honestly take 14 years to suddenly become an issue now?
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;48778332]Why did this honestly take 14 years to suddenly become an issue now?[/QUOTE] Someone got to the base that gave a shit about it. To be honest I wouldn't really care, if it helps morale without offending anyone(If it took 14 fucking years for someone to be offended it wasn't offensive) it has a net positive for the base.
People who get offended over other's religion are just as annoying as religious people forcing their religion on others (which a sign saying "God Bless" isn't).
[QUOTE=V12US;48778728]People who get offended over other's religion are just as annoying as religious people forcing their religion on others (which a sign saying "God Bless" isn't).[/QUOTE] The worst part is, at least the Christians have reason to believe they're in the right. Atheism will NEVER mean as much to an atheist as Christianity does to a typical Christian.
[QUOTE=TIIIN MAAAN;48778738]The worst part is, at least the Christians have reason to believe they're in the right. Atheism will NEVER mean as much to an atheist as Christianity does to a typical Christian.[/QUOTE] You've never had conversations with people who have lost their faith after being major league devout most of their life.
[QUOTE=TIIIN MAAAN;48778738]The worst part is, at least the Christians have reason to believe they're in the right. Atheism will NEVER mean as much to an atheist as Christianity does to a typical Christian.[/QUOTE] I think you mean agnosticism.
[QUOTE=elowin;48779284]I think you mean agnosticism.[/QUOTE] Oh boy
[QUOTE=TIIIN MAAAN;48778738]The worst part is, at least the Christians have reason to believe they're in the right. Atheism will NEVER mean as much to an atheist as Christianity does to a typical Christian.[/QUOTE] Not all, or even most chrisitans are Kim Davis
I don't understand why they would remove this sign, its just why? Why? If your an atheist you don't believe in it. "God bless" So, What? There's no god. I don't really understand why there would be a problem. Although it brings me to the next question, your Constitution has some mentions about god and such with documents of that time, Would that mean on those grounds alone someone could complain and get a rewrite? because that scenario seems a little ridiculous if it was to actually happen.
The sign should be removed, it's a violation of the law. The separation of church and state isn't some scheme to persecute Christians, it's a law meant to say that all religions have no place in the workings of government institutions because anyone can be part of those institutions. By allowing a Christian symbl to be displayed you are saying that Christians are specifically accepted and implying that other groups are less welcome. Also, why are so many of you complaining about atheists? It was a group of Protestants who asked for it to be removed.
[QUOTE=Passing;48779928]I don't understand why they would remove this sign, its just why? Why? If your an atheist you don't believe in it. "God bless" So, What? There's no god. I don't really understand why there would be a problem. Although it brings me to the next question, your Constitution has some mentions about god and such with documents of that time, Would that mean on those grounds alone someone could complain and get a rewrite? because that scenario seems a little ridiculous if it was to actually happen.[/QUOTE] There is a small movement to get the word "God" or any reference to any kind of deity no matter how vague removed from government documentation. [editline]28th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48780119]The sign should be removed, it's a violation of the law. The separation of church and state isn't some scheme to persecute Christians, it's a law meant to say that all religions have no place in the workings of government institutions because anyone can be part of those institutions. By allowing a Christian symbl to be displayed you are saying that Christians are specifically accepted and implying that other groups are less welcome. Also, why are so many of you complaining about atheists? It was a group of Protestants who asked for it to be removed.[/QUOTE] There is NO Christian symbol or symbolism in this sign. Literally the only religious reference on it is the phrase "God Bless" There is [I]nothing[/I] specifically Christian about it at all.
These people can get bent, it's not harmful to anyone.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48780978]These people can get bent, it's not harmful to anyone.[/QUOTE] God bless you friend
[QUOTE=Lebofly;48784081]God bless you friend[/QUOTE] Thanks. Bullshit ass article '23 Marines afraid of reprisal' , I've never heard of anyone fearing reprisal for something as innocuous as this. For people that uses the words 'kill , err, and rah' as hello I doubt they would be offended by that, or they're just soft ass POGs
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48784434]Thanks. Bullshit ass article '23 Marines afraid of reprisal' , I've never heard of anyone fearing reprisal for something as innocuous as this. For people that uses the words 'kill , err, and rah' as hello I doubt they would be offended by that, or they're just soft ass POGs[/QUOTE] I'd imagine it's more like [quote]"[B]God[/B] bless the military, their families and the civilians who work with them."[/quote] this is the part they have a problem with and [quote]"God [B]bless the military, their families and the civilians who work with them.[/B]"[/quote] this is the part they fear reprisal for if the sign is removed.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.