• New poll indicates 43% of Republicans would conceivably support a military coup in America
    41 replies, posted
[quote]A law professor at West Point was forced to hastily resign after it emerged that he had authored a number of controversial articles. In one he suggested that legal scholars defending the rights of suspected terrorists could be considered legitimate military targets, while in another he examined a potential military coup in the United States, arguing that officers may have a duty to sieze control of the federal government if the federal government acted against the interest of the country. The United States military has long embraced the idea of civilian control of national affairs, and apart from certain rare moments the American officer corps has faithfully followed the orders of their civilian superiors. ... 29% of Americans could imagine a situation in which they would support the military seizing control of the federal government, while 41% could not imagine such a situation. Republicans (43%) are more than twice as likely as Democrats (20%) to say that they could conceive of a situation in which they would support a military coup in the United States. Independents tend to say that they could not (38%) rather than could (29%) imagine supporting a coup. [/quote] [url=https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/09/09/could-coup-happen-in-united-states/]YouGov[/url]
We seriously need to get rid of the GOP party, its only spreading stupidity and false propaganda.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;48704318]We seriously need to get rid of the GOP party, its only spreading stupidity and false propaganda.[/QUOTE] This isn't the GOP, this is Republican voting bloc. Every day Americans. [editline]17th September 2015[/editline] Should edit the title to say "republican voters"
Not sure how good this site is seeing how the homepage is nothing but a poll asking you to vote on a topic. [url]https://today.yougov.com/#/[/url] not to mention the numbers in the article are citing themselves as the source
I'm amazed that anyone would answer no to this questions the way that it's stated. The question says: [QUOTE]Is there any situation in which you could imagine yourself supporting the U.S. military taking over the powers of federal government?[/QUOTE] (as a side note, isn't there a "the" missing between "of" and "federal"?) That's basically asking if there is any conceivably possible situation where it would be legitimate. Saying no would mean that even if a Neo Nazi group somehow where voted in and reestablished black slavery and child sacrifice, then you STILL wouldn't support a coup. Answering no either means you didn't take the question seriously or you are more supportive of the government, no matter what, than any sort of underlying ideals.
This is a little sensationalist. The question asked was: "Is there any situation in which you could imagine yourself supporting the U.S. military taking over the powers of federal government?" If the federal government started violating the constitution brutally, and the military decided to take over the government, then a lot of people would probably support that. EDIT: Ninja'd
Soldier's are under oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Not to mention twice now Congress has decided to fail to pass a budget twice, first time the military didn't get paid, second time they only got half pay. And I really wouldn't be surprised if a lot of soldiers never got the backpay they were supposed to.
Uhh, ok? Frankly I think its a little weirder that people cant even [I]conceive[/I] of a situation where they would support a military coup [editline]17th September 2015[/editline] I mean like if some oppressive regime took over I think most people would probably want to military to step in
I've seen droves of the left say the same thing when the two parties are staunchly opposing each other over major social and political changes in this country. I don't believe the 20% numbers for the Democrats, where and whom they polled is in question for me. I feel like both parties have a large and growing size of extremists that is further fueled by online debates between each other. Though I suppose I'm not taking into account the significant difference in supporting a military coup and supporting a coup in general.
At the current moment in time, the average support for a state seceding from the union is 20% ~ 30% per each state's population. This includes ALL voter bases. Not just the current standing Republican party. Most people fail to realize this, but a lot of people are pretty fairly pissed off with the current capacity of the government in it's two party state. [t]http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/files/2014/09/SECESSION_opinion_map-with-q.jpg[/t] [t]http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/files/2014/09/gender2.jpg[/t][t]http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/files/2014/09/income2.jpg[/t] [url=http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/2014/09/19/one-in-four-americans-want-their-state-to-secede-from-the-u-s-but-why/](( All images comes from a Reuters Article called "One in Four Americans Want to State to Secede ))[/url] The current government has pissed people off and every year the number of pissed off people only grows larger. Put that into mind when considering these things. It's not simply just a bunch of Republicans angry because OBUMMER BE A MUSLIM or some dumbshit like that. Tons of people want a solution and right now it seems as if the only solution is reorganizing the balance of power through force.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48704384]Not sure how good this site is seeing how the homepage is nothing but a poll asking you to vote on a topic. [url]https://today.yougov.com/#/[/url] not to mention the numbers in the article are citing themselves as the source[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sgman91;48704389]I'm amazed that anyone would answer no to this questions the way that it's stated. The question says: (as a side note, isn't there a "the" missing between "of" and "federal"?) That's basically asking if there is any conceivably possible situation where it would be legitimate. Saying no would mean that even if a Neo Nazi group somehow where voted in and reestablished black slavery and child sacrifice, then you STILL wouldn't support a coup. Answering no either means you didn't take the question seriously or you are more supportive of the government, no matter what, than any sort of underlying ideals.[/QUOTE] Ah, yes, because the only solution if an oppressive regime came to power in the United States would be to have it taken over by a completely non-democratic and strictly hierarchical institution. Surely nothing could go wrong! I mean, after all, it happened to Guatemala in 1954 and they became a functioning liberal democracy afterwards, right? Not to mention in Iran a year earlier, that coup went perfectly well and there totally weren't human rights problems afterwards.
[QUOTE=daschnek;48704889]Ah, yes, because the only solution if an oppressive regime came to power in the United States would be to have it taken over by a completely non-democratic and strictly hierarchical institution. Surely nothing could go wrong! I mean, after all, it happened to Guatemala in 1954 and they became a functioning liberal democracy afterwards, right? Not to mention in Iran a year earlier, that coup went perfectly well and there totally weren't human rights problems afterwards.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're point is. Sure, the results aren't perfect and it's happened wrongly in the past. That doesn't logically lead to believing that it can literally never be called for under any circumstance.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48705137]I'm not sure what you're point is. Sure, the results aren't perfect and it's happened wrongly in the past. That doesn't logically lead to believing that it can literally never be called for under any circumstance.[/QUOTE] Can you name a single military coup in history that went well and directly led to long term improvement?
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48705170]Can you name a single military coup in history that went well and directly led to long term improvement?[/QUOTE] I would call the ousting of quite a few of the extremely brutal and/or ineffectual roman emperors justified and beneficial for the nation. I'm also not sure about the Egyptian coup yet. It may very well end up being a positive, especially for the religious minorities, to not have an authoritarian Islamic theocrat in power.
Smedley Butler is spinning in his grave
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;48704318]We seriously need to get rid of the GOP party, its only spreading stupidity and false propaganda.[/QUOTE] Because it went so well the last time a major world power went to a one party system.
[QUOTE=Fayez;48705305]Because it went so well the last time a major world power went to a one party system.[/QUOTE] I would fully support a Green Party vs Democrat Party System!
Sample size is only 1k and we don't know where the questions were answered needs bigger sample size all over the country
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;48704318]We seriously need to get rid of the GOP party, its only spreading stupidity and false propaganda.[/QUOTE] How would getting rid of the GOP somehow get rid of the political views of millions of Americans? Okay, outlaw the GOP. Then at the next election, every candidate who would otherwise run as a Republican would run as an independent, or they would form into a new party. Well done, nothing was accomplished.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48705217]I would call the ousting of quite a few of the extremely brutal and/or ineffectual roman emperors justified and beneficial for the nation. I'm also not sure about the Egyptian coup yet. It may very well end up being a positive, especially for the religious minorities, to not have an authoritarian Islamic theocrat in power.[/QUOTE] The first weren't exactly a democratically elected government and the later is to a really dubious effect indeed.
[QUOTE=tempunary;48705252]Smedley Butler is spinning in his grave[/QUOTE] "War is a Racket!" "Democracy is important" [editline]17th September 2015[/editline] To think that the coup he uncovered that would have the US replaced by a technocratic military dictatorship got no fucks from the American public.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48705137]I'm not sure what you're point is. Sure, the results aren't perfect and it's happened wrongly in the past. That doesn't logically lead to believing that it can literally never be called for under any circumstance.[/QUOTE] My point is military coups lend themselves to authoritarian styles of government by their very nature. If you like democracy, and if you like notions such as freedom and equality, then a military coup cannot go well under any circumstances (unless the circumstances involve the military government being destroyed by something more democratic).
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48704401]This is a little sensationalist. The question asked was: "Is there any situation in which you could imagine yourself supporting the U.S. military taking over the powers of federal government?" If the federal government started violating the constitution brutally, and the military decided to take over the government, then a lot of people would probably support that. EDIT: Ninja'd[/QUOTE] Well the thing is the federal government would never be able to get into the position where they can brutally violate the constitution. They would be shut down by the Supreme Court long before that happened. There would [i]never[/i] be a situation where a military coup would be justified; there is no justification for a democratic government being toppled over by an undemocratic military regime.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48704384]Not sure how good this site is seeing how the homepage is nothing but a poll asking you to vote on a topic. [url]https://today.yougov.com/#/[/url] not to mention the numbers in the article are citing themselves as the source[/QUOTE] YouGov is a generally accurate and reputable polling organization. Check their Wikipedia page.
[QUOTE=daschnek;48705545]My point is military coups lend themselves to authoritarian styles of government by their very nature. If you like democracy, and if you like notions such as freedom and equality, then a military coup cannot go well under any circumstances (unless the circumstances involve the military government being destroyed by something more democratic).[/QUOTE] Obviously it could only possibly be justified if the government had already become autocratic. For example, let's say a party with control of both the presidency and congress decided to amend the constitution to permanently postpone all elections.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48705909]Obviously it could only possibly be justified if the government had already become autocratic. For example, let's say a party with control of both the presidency and congress decided to amend the constitution to permanently postpone all elections.[/QUOTE] But would 38 states approve such an amendment?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48705924]But would 38 states approve such an amendment?[/QUOTE] Who knows. At some possible future, maybe. Remember the question isn't if it's likely to happen, only that it's conceivably possible. There are plenty of people in both parties who would love to see the other party go away forever. To make it even easier, say the congress with the support of the president voted to take away funding for the election process. They wouldn't even need an amendment to do something like that.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48705969]To make it even easier, say the congress with the support of the president voted to take away funding for the election process. They wouldn't even need an amendment to do something like that.[/QUOTE] What does that even mean? Any public funding? Any private funding? Do you mean that no one can pay for their campaign? In any way, this is an improbable situation. Even 9/11 did not provide enough grounds for people to entirely agree with the government policies, so having a single party take over everything is flat out impossible, even if for example, Republican or Democrats just disappear. There are going to be inter-party splits, as no party is a hivemind.
[QUOTE=gufu;48706011]What does that even mean? Any public funding? Any private funding? Do you mean that no one can pay for their campaign?[/QUOTE] I'm talking about cutting funding for the election process. So not paying anyone to set up the voting booths, run the voting centers, sending out absentee voting letters, counting ballots, etc. This would effectively stop all voting solely by use of the federal government's purse strings. [QUOTE]In any way, this is an improbable situation.[/QUOTE] Agreed, but, like I said, this is about what's logically possible, not what's likely. The question clearly says "Is there [B]any[/B] [B]situation in which you could[/B] [B]imagine[/B]." It's not asking what you think might actually happen, but if you can even imagine a situation where it might happen.
[QUOTE=daschnek;48704889]Ah, yes, because the only solution if an oppressive regime came to power in the United States would be to have it taken over by a completely non-democratic and strictly hierarchical institution. Surely nothing could go wrong! I mean, after all, it happened to Guatemala in 1954 and they became a functioning liberal democracy afterwards, right? Not to mention in Iran a year earlier, that coup went perfectly well and there totally weren't human rights problems afterwards.[/QUOTE] Good point, in the event you are being oppressed by an abusive authoritarian government, you should sit down and shut the fuck up. Works great in North Korea, don't you think?
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