Did Putin Blow Up the Whole Polish Government in 2010? A Second Look.
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[IMG]http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2014/04/11/did-putin-blow-up-the-whole-polish-government-in-2010-a-second-look/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1397209593125.cached.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE][B]A plane crash at Smolensk in Russia four years ago wiped out the Warsaw leadership. It used to be seen as an accident. Now, after Putin’s games in Ukraine, people aren’t so sure.
[/B]
Four years ago this week, Polish President Lech Kaczynski was killed in a plane crash near the Katyn Forest in Russia where he was flying to honor the 22,000 Polish officers, lawyers, priests and professors slaughtered there by the Soviets 70 years before. Ninety-five other military, political and public figures including his wife died on that plane. One of the more heartbreaking details to emerge was that First Lady Maria Kaczynska’s body could be identified only by her nail polish and the inscription inside her wedding ring.
Less than two years before the crash the late president had given a speech warning that if Russian aggression was not stopped in Georgia, which Russia had invaded, it would extend to Ukraine, the Baltics, and possibly Poland as well. “We are here to take up the fight,” he said. And many Poles still believe that their president died in the cause of that effort. Physicist Kazimierz Nowaczyk is one of them.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The plane’s black boxes, laptops, sensitive documents, mobile phones, address books, telephone numbers, correspondence, and the top-secret military, NATO and diplomatic codes on board were salvaged from crash site immediately by the Kremlin’s operatives in what was a “coup for Russia’s intelligence service” according to retired CIA analyst Gene Poteat. What Nowaczyk calls “years worth of work for security services” was completed in a single day by Russia’s OMON Special Purpose Police, which were immediately deployed to the site.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]“From our point of view this report was full of mistakes,” Nowaczyk explains, citing various inconsistencies and contradictions in the official narrative. A key issue raised by Nowaczyk’s committee and the many online forums dedicated to the crash is that the amount of debris found at the site—an estimated 60,000 aircraft fragments—would be impossible in the case of a simple plane crash. He cites the 1988 Lockerbie bombing and the 1996 TWA 800 flight out of New York, both of which exploded in the air but had only 11,000 aircraft fragments and 3,168 fragments respectively. Both planes were reconstructed to 95 percent completion. Nowaczyk believes that an explosion caused the fragmentation of the Polish president’s plane. In the official report the plane’s black boxes indicate that the aircraft’s electricity was cut two to three seconds before the crash, which Nowaczyk believes also was caused by that explosion.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/11/did-putin-blow-up-the-whole-polish-government-in-2010-a-second-look.html[/url]
[editline]13th April 2014[/editline]
it seems really fucking suspicious
I would not be suprised if the crash was not an accident.
Of course it wasn't an accident, accidents like this do not happen
Real fucking dirty if it turns out to be true. Occam and Betteridge are both pointing towards accident, though. Still, not entirely unlikely.
[video=youtube;FEx7HL4H5yk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk[/video]
also this is a video taken right after the plane crash, turn on annotations then, there are english subtitles there
you can hear people screaming in russian about not letting somebody get away
the sirens are military airport sirens
Yeah there's lots of people here that believe it wasn't a crash. To be honest before the whole Ukraine thing I thought that they're full of shit, but now I wouldn't be surprised really.
I refuse to believe that a fucking birch tree was capable of tearing off an entire wing of an airplane and absolutely no one is going to convince me otherwise, especially since this photo exists:
[t]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/23/article-2528213-1A43932800000578-269_964x520.jpg[/t]
I wouldn't be surprised if this was some very dirty work from Russia, but I can't believe it has been 4 years since this happened
Yeah 9/11 was an inside job!
Also it's really suspicious that the russians are [I]still[/I] holding onto the black boxes.
I mean, it was [I]our[/I] plane, shouldn't they like, give them to us as soon as they found them?
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44533679]Yeah 9/11 was an inside job![/QUOTE]
Smolensk and Manhattan are just completely different.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44533679]Yeah 9/11 was an inside job![/QUOTE]
This comparison would make sense, if it was being suggested that the Polish government were behind the crash.
This is, as was 9/11, an outside job.
[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;44533689]Also it's really suspicious that the russians are [I]still[/I] holding onto the black boxes.
I mean, it was [I]our[/I] plane, shouldn't they like, give them to us as soon as they found them?[/QUOTE]
yeah thats the most suspicious part, the russians have [B]refused to give the plane back[/B]
i mean if they don't have something to hide, why wouldn't they just give it back?
I was convinced ever since this crash happened that it was not an accident. There are too many facts that simply do not add up.
[QUOTE=Turing;44533703]yeah thats the most suspicious part, the russians have [B]refused to give the plane back[/B]
i mean if they don't have something to hide, why wouldn't they just give it back?[/QUOTE]
They refused to give back the bodies, the black boxes, the plane wreck, what else?
The Russian government is a dodgy gang of assholes and I doubt that there is any way that the Russian government did not have anything to do with the Polish government being wiped out in a single crash
is this the incident that spawned this?
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/59214_10151552825339605_1317973633_n.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Pelican;44533718]is this the incident that spawned this?
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/59214_10151552825339605_1317973633_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Nowhere near [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1210099]Sonic Drowning Music[/url], but still... fuck, man.
Did they benefit from it though? Was there some planned deal or something the government might have made that got canceled because of this? I don't see why you'd blow up a plane for no obvious gain.
I don't know anything about what was going on in Polish politics at the time though.
It's a disgustingly cowardly way of killing your enemies.
[QUOTE=MartinPL;44533666]I refuse to believe that a fucking birch tree was capable of tearing off an entire wing of an airplane and absolutely no one is going to convince me otherwise, especially since this photo exists:
[t]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/23/article-2528213-1A43932800000578-269_964x520.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
The crash may be suspicious, but you're underestimating the strength of trees. Plus, you have to take note that the planes are of different model.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;44533748]Did they benefit from it though? Was there some planned deal or something the government might have made that got canceled because of this? I don't see why you'd blow up a plane for no obvious gain.
I don't know anything about what was going on in Polish politics at the time though.[/QUOTE]
"The plane’s black boxes, laptops, sensitive documents, mobile phones, address books, telephone numbers, correspondence, and the top-secret military, NATO and diplomatic codes on board were salvaged from crash site immediately by the Kremlin’s operatives in what was a “coup for Russia’s intelligence service” according to retired CIA analyst Gene Poteat. What Nowaczyk calls “years worth of work for security services” was completed in a single day by Russia’s OMON Special Purpose Police, which were immediately deployed to the site."
and also the ones that died were very anti-Russian
[QUOTE=Turing;44533658][video=youtube;FEx7HL4H5yk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk[/video]
[/QUOTE]
That's interesting. Especially when you read this:
[QUOTE]On 6 June 2010, it was reported that payments worth €1,400 had been made from a credit card found on the body of historian Andrzej Przewoźnik, one of the victims of the crash. Credit cards belonging to the politician Aleksandra Natalli-Świat were also missing, but not used in transactions.[51] On 8 June 2010, ITAR-TASS reported that four soldiers of Unit 06755 had been charged in connection with the theft, after being found in possession of three credit cards used to withdraw a total of 60,345 руб .[52] A Polish spokesperson said that the first withdrawals using the cards had been made around two hours after the crash.[53] The Polish government admitted that the Russian soldiers involved in the theft were probably conscripts, and that earlier reports blaming members of Russia's OMON forces for the theft had been a mistake.[54][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;44533748]Did they benefit from it though? Was there some planned deal or something the government might have made that got canceled because of this? I don't see why you'd blow up a plane for no obvious gain.
I don't know anything about what was going on in Polish politics at the time though.[/QUOTE]
The death of Kaczyński and his government, most of whom were particularly anti-Russian, allowed for Donald Tusk, the current pro-Russia prime minister, to build greater relations between Poland and Russia without the barriers of the Kaczyński government in the way.
And yet, Antoni Macierewicz, who has been trying to prove that it was not an accident for all those years, is still being laughed at.
[QUOTE=Turing;44533658][video=youtube;FEx7HL4H5yk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk[/video]
also this is a video taken right after the plane crash, turn on annotations then, there are english subtitles there
you can hear people screaming in russian about not letting somebody get away
the sirens are military airport sirens[/QUOTE]
You know, there are a bit conflicted messages here, tho.
On one side people are suggesting the plane BLEW THE FUCK UP, far more violently than any normal plane crash, yet on the other side there's somebody suggesting there would be survivors or even somebody capable of attempting to run away? That doesn't make much sense to me.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44533955]You know, there are a bit conflicted messages here, tho.
On one side people are suggesting the plane BLEW THE FUCK UP, far more violently than any normal plane crash, yet on the other side there's somebody suggesting there would be survivors or even somebody capable of attempting to run away? That doesn't make much sense to me.[/QUOTE]
idk, the gunshots seem to be out of place to begin with
who would be shooting off a gun at a plane crash site?
[QUOTE=Pelican;44533718]is this the incident that spawned this?
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/59214_10151552825339605_1317973633_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Holy shit I feel so bad for laughing at this.
[QUOTE=Turing;44533658][video=youtube;FEx7HL4H5yk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk[/video]
also this is a video taken right after the plane crash, turn on annotations then, there are english subtitles there
you can hear people screaming in russian about not letting somebody get away
the sirens are military airport sirens[/QUOTE]
The guy who taped this was supposedly stabbed to the point of life support by masked assaliants. They came back again to unplug his life ssupport and squeeze im a few more stabs ultimately killing him.
[QUOTE=Makol;44533969]idk, the gunshots seem to be out of place to begin with
who would be shooting off a gun at a place crash site?[/QUOTE]
Well did anybody prove it was actually gunshots? Couldn't it be cracking of burning debris or something? The video quality is nothing stellar.
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