• Kurds low on good weapons - some using WWII British weapons while others have to steal American guns
    49 replies, posted
[quote]Rashid Fouad Abdullah is a Kurdish peshmerga fighter in his late 50s, but he's younger than his gun. [B]It's a British artillery piece manufactured in 1941,[/B] kept in immaculate condition and in daily service as Kurdish forces tighten their grip around Iraq's second city, Mosul. Abdullah is one of a few dozen peshmerga stationed on Mount Zartak, overlooking Mosul from the east. The city is still firmly under the control of the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, but the peshmerga are in buoyant mood, having first stemmed and then partially reversed territorial gains made by ISIS last summer.They expect much more fighting ahead, and from the generals to the volunteers, they all lament a lack of modern weapons that would help them take on ISIS. [B]Abdullah said he would have happily showed us how his old gun worked, but he had only 20 shells left.[/B] On Saturday, [B]clutching AK-47s and more ancient rifles, Abdullah and his fellow fighters gazed into the sky and watched the arc of vapor trails as coalition planes hit ISIS targets all around Mosul. [/B]Kurdish fighters told us it was the heaviest day of bombardment they had witnessed. We heard well over a dozen loud detonations to the east, but their exact points of impact were difficult to determine through the haze. The peshmerga defensive positions on the mountain are well-fortified, with lines of sandbags and concrete bunkers, and a track carved into the mountain slopes for access. The Kurdish flag -- red, white and green horizontal stripes with a 21-point yellow sun -- flutters above. The fighters said that ISIS occasionally launched Katyusha rockets at their positions, but most fell short. The situation of peshmerga on the plains below is more precarious. There are ISIS positions to the east and south. CNN witnessed an exchange of fire between the two sides at the weekend, with ISIS shooting from an abandoned cement plant just 500 yards away and the peshmerga firing back with heavy machine guns. They have placed large concrete barriers across the highway, once the main road between Irbil and Mosul, but they are vulnerable to mortar fire and Humvees converted into devastating suicide bombs. The commander said he'd asked for airstrikes time and again, but nothing had happened. ----- Gen. Sirwan Barzani, a son of the President of Kurdistan, Massoud Barzani, told CNN [B]his troops needed heavy machine guns, anti-tank missiles and armored vehicles above all else. They say 70% of the 1,000 peshmerga killed in the current conflict have been the victims of improvised bombs.[/B] ISIS has rigged villages with dozens of such devices before falling back, some of them ingeniously designed to avoid all but the most forensic inspection. [B]Kurdish fighters have begun building their own armored vehicles. One -- on the front line southwest of Irbil -- looked like a collision between a carnival float and something out of "Mad Max," a monstrous contraption of steel plates laid on the chassis of a truck.[/B] ----- The Kurds have built a modern-day version of Hadrian's Wall along a stretch of territory more than 100 miles long, with bunkers on hilltops, fences and deep trenches designed to keep out ISIS' Humvee suicide bombs. Some of these vehicles are captured and briskly converted for use by the peshmerga. [B]"We are getting American weaponry," joked one fighter. "It was given by the Americans to the Iraqi army, and when they fled, ISIS took it. Now we are taking it from ISIS."[/B][/quote] [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/09/middleeast/kurds-iraq-isis/index.html[/url]
[QUOTE]It was given by the Americans to the Iraqi army, and when they fled, ISIS took it. Now we are taking it from ISIS.[/QUOTE] Nothing like a hand-me-down.
Nothing like utilizing that good old British artillery pieces or old british rifles for that matter. There are still Lee-Enfield's and Bren guns kicking about from times long past and in a way I feel kind of happy they still do work, even after the people who built them, along with the factories and their original users have long since perished.
I love the Kurds. They're some of the most resilient fighters alive today.
Yep, I still don't think the US & our allies arming them is a good idea.
It's strange that this is news when pretty much every armed militia or combatant group in the region goes through this. I mean, the Khyber Pass produces knockoff Enfields for gods sake.
So Enfields and Mosins all around?
I think we pretty much handed them something like 700tonnes of weapons and munitions or so.
Didn't we airdrop the Kurds arms and munitions a few months ago?
This sounds like a tear-jerker piece to get the people behind throwing even more guns at the problem because that works. And plus its bloody CNN.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;47110018]Nothing like a hand-me-down.[/QUOTE] This is probably what Reagan meant by the trickle down effect.
[QUOTE=matt000024;47110151]Yep, I still don't think the US & our allies arming them is a good idea.[/QUOTE] Arming the Iraqis? Back idea. Arming the Kurds? Good idea.
[QUOTE=Binladen34;47110317]Didn't we airdrop the Kurds arms and munitions a few months ago?[/QUOTE] Mostly Soviet era surplus stuff I think and some modern hand grenades.
Germany has also been giving the Kurds weapons as well.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;47110387]Arming the Iraqis? Back idea. Arming the Kurds? Good idea.[/QUOTE] Problem, we always arm the current "good guys", then next week, after they win, we have them attacking us/allies/people that they shouldnt. The kurds look different, but, who is say they won't be next weeks bad guys?
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;47110573]Problem, we always arm the current "good guys", then next week, after they win, we have them attacking us/allies/people that they shouldnt. The kurds look different, but, who is say they won't be next weeks bad guys?[/QUOTE] Even if they are the next bad guys, at least we'll have fought by their sides and thus can hopefully solve things more politically. If not we'll at least know how they carry on their ways.
[QUOTE=Tools;47110587]Even if they are the next bad guys, at least we'll have fought by their sides and thus can hopefully solve things more politically. If not we'll at least know how they carry on their ways.[/QUOTE] Just like last time, right?
[QUOTE=Dermock;47110627]Just like last time, right?[/QUOTE] But the Kurds are far more western than practically any other insurgency we've armed before, and if there is continued Kurdish resistance it will probably result in an independent Kurdish nation forming. We aren't arming a group of random religious rebels but somewhat organized groups that have a common goal in mind, they would probably be an actual US ally. They could turn to terrorism in the aftermath of the fall of ISIS if they don't really gain anything from the whole crisis and are left in the dust by America and her allies. But I don't think they'd even really be terrorists against the United States of course but still. Also generalizing it to calling rebel groups in the east as either being good guys or bad guys is silly.
If you can kill people with it, it's still good, so pick it up. I learned that from Counterstrike. edit: Turkey, a NATO ally, would not like us arming the Kurds. That's politics for you.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47110566]Germany has also been giving the Kurds weapons as well.[/QUOTE] Nah, Germany sent guns to the Free Syrian Army to help them against Assad.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;47110973]Nah, Germany sent guns to the Free Syrian Army to help them against Assad.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly certain I saw footage of Kurds using MILAN missile launchers against ISIS targets. Unless they found those lying about the Germans must have sent at least some packages their way.
[QUOTE=Dermock;47110627]Just like last time, right?[/QUOTE] If we arm anyone, they could use them against us. If we don't arm anyone, they blame their loss on us if they lose, and if ISIS wins we still lose. The middle east is a scary place right now.
[QUOTE=Tools;47110587]Even if they are the next bad guys, at least we'll have fought by their sides and thus can hopefully solve things more politically. If not we'll at least know how they carry on their ways.[/QUOTE] For fuck sake, how often are people gonna do this shit in the Middle East and justify as well at least we were the good guys? We might be the good guys but that doesn't mean this isn't a shit idea.
SMLEs for everybody!
We are going about arming the Kurds in a completely backwards fashion. The Kurds have proven themselves to be incredibly good DIY'ers, and we need to take that as a lesson of what they are capable of, and open the door for them into the world of producing khyber pass firearms. Drop them some STEN/Grease Guns and other weapons that are easy to build on their own, and with the firearm/ammo crates, include several pamphlets that discuss how to manufacture said firearms, and ammo for them, with materials that can be found around Kurdistan. Not only would this be doing them a massive favor in the long run by giving them skilled artisans that can be trained in the construction of firearms and metalwork, but it'd also allow us to take a breather and get Turkey off our ass for arming the Kurds directly.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;47110573]Problem, we always arm the current "good guys", then next week, after they win, we have them attacking us/allies/people that they shouldnt. The kurds look different, but, who is say they won't be next weeks bad guys?[/QUOTE] If they're better than ISIS then I'd consider that a net victory.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47112251]We are going about arming the Kurds in a completely backwards fashion. The Kurds have proven themselves to be incredibly good DIY'ers, and we need to take that as a lesson of what they are capable of, and open the door for them into the world of producing khyber pass firearms. Drop them some STEN/Grease Guns and other weapons that are easy to build on their own, and with the firearm/ammo crates, include several pamphlets that discuss how to manufacture said firearms, and ammo for them, with materials that can be found around Kurdistan. Not only would this be doing them a massive favor in the long run by giving them skilled artisans that can be trained in the construction of firearms and metalwork, but it'd also allow us to take a breather and get Turkey off our ass for arming the Kurds directly.[/QUOTE] Hows about we airdrop you in with a few sacks of ammonium nitrate and a pellet rifle?
Those British guns conquered the world, what's there to complain about?
[QUOTE=snapshot32;47112325]Hows about we airdrop you in with a few sacks of ammonium nitrate and a pellet rifle?[/QUOTE] You want to give me a highly volatile chemical and a new air rifle? All for free? You shouldn't have!
[QUOTE=Dermock;47110627]Just like last time, right?[/QUOTE] Osama openly gloated about how he never received western aid, so there is no last time.
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