Oh good, overly sensitive babies have to piss and moan about a trans character not being fully fleshed out like so many other characters in the game, oh but noo, this is a trans character, gotta go into detail otherwise we'll fucking strike.
Getting bored of people really.
literal 1:1 of BG siege of dragonspear controversy
then again every future videogame with trans characters will probably suffer the same fate
First time I hear of this character, so I doubt that's all to it, but... "Back home, I was filling test tubes in some dead-end lab. People knew me as Stephan. But that was never who I was. I knew what I could do and I knew who I wanted to do it as. 'Hainly Abrams, Andromeda Explorer'. That's me. Feels good. Feels right."
This doesn't feel like a bad way to introduce the character? I mean she says she was a man in the Milky Way, but then she became someone else because she didn't feel at home (so to speak) in a man's body. Like I said, there's probably more to it, but no one in-game makes a big fuzz about it. It just seems like it's a "Oh hey, you're trans? Cool."
I dunno, it's tough to explain. In any case, seems like an overreaction from people.
They should apologize for releasing a polished turd instead.
Wait that chick was a dude before?
[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;52063327]Oh good, overly sensitive babies have to piss and moan about a trans character not being fully fleshed out like so many other characters in the game, oh but noo, this is a trans character, gotta go into detail otherwise we'll fucking strike.
Getting bored of people really.[/QUOTE]
maybe they should instead apologize for offending us with piss poor writing. this npc's dialogue and the asari pronouns shit are two of the worst written things in the game just for progressive brownie points.
[editline]5th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Itauske Roken;52063359]Wait that chick was a dude before?[/QUOTE]
actually one of the very first things she explains to you when you meet her. before giving you mundane sidequest. she'll remind you again later on in case you missed it.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52063351]First time I hear of this character, so I doubt that's all to it, but... "Back home, I was filling test tubes in some dead-end lab. People knew me as Stephan. But that was never who I was. I knew what I could do and I knew who I wanted to do it as. 'Hainly Abrams, Andromeda Explorer'. That's me. Feels good. Feels right."
This doesn't feel like a bad way to introduce the character? I mean she says she was a man in the Milky Way, but then she became someone else because she didn't feel at home (so to speak) in a man's body. Like I said, there's probably more to it, but no one in-game makes a big fuzz about it. It just seems like it's a "Oh hey, you're trans? Cool."
I dunno, it's tough to explain. In any case, seems like an overreaction from people.[/QUOTE]
It's a no win situation for Bioware. If they never mentioned it they would be blasted for not including trans people enough but if they outwardly mention it like they did, they get blasted for making it too in your face.
[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;52063327]Oh good, overly sensitive babies have to piss and moan about a trans character not being fully fleshed out like so many other characters in the game, oh but noo, this is a trans character, gotta go into detail otherwise we'll fucking strike.
Getting bored of people really.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52063351]First time I hear of this character, so I doubt that's all to it, but... "Back home, I was filling test tubes in some dead-end lab. People knew me as Stephan. But that was never who I was. I knew what I could do and I knew who I wanted to do it as. 'Hainly Abrams, Andromeda Explorer'. That's me. Feels good. Feels right."
This doesn't feel like a bad way to introduce the character? I mean she says she was a man in the Milky Way, but then she became someone else because she didn't feel at home (so to speak) in a man's body. Like I said, there's probably more to it, but no one in-game makes a big fuzz about it. It just seems like it's a "Oh hey, you're trans? Cool."
I dunno, it's tough to explain. In any case, seems like an overreaction from people.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to represent transgender people, do it right. Having a character who just randomly tells you this rehearsed dramatic backstory about her past is just stupid, forced, and not how trans people are.
Token forced minorities who's main aspect to their personality is "I am X" will just end up pissing off everyone, including the minority you were trying to represent
Bioware has a lot more to apologize for than one character.
Manufactured controversy.
Getting a sex change in the ME universe is literally a personal choice and an outpatient procedure that can be actively maintained with routine omnitool monitored implants.
Also pretty telling the PCG considers Crem's ham-fisted scene from DAI where the PC is assumed to be a knucklefuckdragging moron in regards to what sexual identity can be or is as the gold standard.
All the usual bullshit from all the relevant sources.
To be fair bioware made that character seem like trans people just walk around rattling off their transition stories to anybody who will listen.
The fact that they took the time to make anything in this game a little more life like is incredible to me. It's just a shame it took identity politics to bring the awkward uncanny valleyness to sight.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52063351]First time I hear of this character, so I doubt that's all to it, but... "Back home, I was filling test tubes in some dead-end lab. People knew me as Stephan. But that was never who I was. I knew what I could do and I knew who I wanted to do it as. 'Hainly Abrams, Andromeda Explorer'. That's me. Feels good. Feels right."
This doesn't feel like a bad way to introduce the character? I mean she says she was a man in the Milky Way, but then she became someone else because she didn't feel at home (so to speak) in a man's body. Like I said, there's probably more to it, but no one in-game makes a big fuzz about it. It just seems like it's a "Oh hey, you're trans? Cool."
I dunno, it's tough to explain. In any case, seems like an overreaction from people.[/QUOTE]
Trans people [URL="http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Deadnaming"]tend not to openly share their birth name with random strangers[/URL], mostly because this may indicate that they're trans and one of the biggest goals of trans people is to pass as the opposite sex. Not passing causes emotional distress even if the other person isn't judgmental, and immediately outing yourself to random strangers may incite physical violence in extreme cases.
Hainly is a poorly written character that damages the image of trans people to anyone unfamiliar with them. She could easily give players the wrong idea that trans people must out themselves as soon as possible or they're 'lying' or something else equally stupid.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52063390]If you're going to represent transgender people, do it right. Having a character who just randomly tells you this rehearsed dramatic backstory about her past is just stupid, forced, and not how trans people are.
Token forced minorities who's main aspect to their personality is "I am X" will just end up pissing off everyone, including the minority you were trying to represent[/QUOTE]
i think the quote is fine, it just depends on the context. does she say it during a very personal conversation where it feels natural and organic? or is it more like anders being gay in dragon age II, where his desire to suck your dick is an inescapable black hole that just makes him look like a clingy weirdo?
Here's why this sucks dick;
Very few, if any transgender people are going to tell you they're trans in real life, outside of a support group or a LGBT rally. Or, if you're close friends. Most of us want that shit private, and we just want to be seen as any other girl. We don't advertise it. The reason we're different online is because [I]everyone's[/I] different online. We don't have to care about you treating us different in every day life like we do with real people.
And even [I]less[/I] transgendered people would tell you their former name. I never tell people my dead name unless I [I]have[/I] to, online or in real life. And most trans people will tell you it's none of your business or they're not comfortable sharing if you try asking.
So to have this character, who not only tells you that they're trans at your first meeting, [I]and[/I] tell you their male name while they're at it, all in this badly written overdramatic rehearsed sounding speech is just fuckin' stupid and not at all how transgendered people are, is just so stupid.
Trans people aren't obligated to applaud Bioware for including us, especially not when they're this shit at it. This comes across entirely as a random, forced minority, that some (bad) writer shoved in to get minority points, without actually putting the effort in to figure out how transgender people [I]are.[/I]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52063483]i think the quote is fine, it just depends on the context. does she say it during a very personal conversation where it feels natural and organic? or is it more like anders being gay in dragon age II, where his desire to suck your dick is an inescapable black hole that just makes him look like a clingy weirdo?[/QUOTE]
This is the first thing she says to you when you ask her what brought her to andromeda, you have just met this character and do not know a single thing about her or known her long enough for something like that to be revealed literally the first time you meet her.
they want to diversify casts in videogames but judging from these reactions it seems like quite the gamble if you mess up
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52063483]i think the quote is fine, it just depends on the context. does she say it during a very personal conversation where it feels natural and organic? or is it more like anders being gay in dragon age II, where his desire to suck your dick is an inescapable black hole that just makes him look like a clingy weirdo?[/QUOTE]
so first she introduces herself the first time you ever talk to her. then immediately after that you can ask "what brought you to this galaxy?" and then goes "well i used to be named stephan"
so almost as soon as you meet her for the first time. and the first time she's ever spoken to the main protag in her entire life.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52063494]they want to diversify casts in videogames but judging from these reactions it seems like quite the gamble if you mess up[/QUOTE]
It really isn't a gamble if you put an ounce of thought into what you're doing, BioWare is just exceedingly stupid.
[QUOTE=mchapra;52063490]This is the first thing she says to you when you ask her what brought her to andromeda, you have just met this character and do not know a single thing about her or known her long enough for something like that to be revealed literally the first time you meet her.[/QUOTE]
It's not a gamble, because people go out of their way to be offended.
[QUOTE=Qaus;52063506]It really isn't a gamble if you put an ounce of thought into what you're doing, BioWare is just exceedingly stupid.[/QUOTE]
Yeah for sure this could have been done better, or they could have just not included it period if they can't pull it off. I just meant in my original post that if you can't write it in properly don't put it in just to look "diversified" but I could have worded it better.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;52063511]It's not a gamble, because people go out of their way to be offended.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you could try listening to people instead of deducing that any time LGBT people are mad it's because everyone can't handle being offended and is going out of their way to be offended at everything
I hate these posts I see them all the fucking time it's like they run in, come up with the shittiest opinion that requires the least amount of thought without reading or considering anything, take a big ol shit on the thread and run away before anyone responds
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;52063511]It's not a gamble, because people go out of their way to be offended.[/QUOTE]
gee dude you sure got me with that sick burn that has pretty much nothing to do with the reason for people thinking it's shit
you really sure they're the ones offended here because you seem p offended here.
I know that you guys are all saying trans people might be physically hurt or emotionally abused if they come out as trans but that is in the [I]modern day[/I]. I'm not saying that I like this character or that she is written well or anything positive but I just want to throw the idea out there that maybe, in the future, being trans isn't a big deal. Replace this conversation with "back home I used to be an office worker." and it's pointless and uninteresting. I would be willing to bet that in this world, casually mentioning you are trans could be easily possible.
Time to retreat from this thread because I know I'm going to get flamed for this even though I don't mean any offense.
[QUOTE=skylortrexle;52063591]... I just want to throw the idea out there that maybe, in the future, being trans isn't a big deal. ...
I would be willing to bet that in this world, casually mentioning you are trans could be easily possible. [/QUOTE]
not going to flame you here. but clearly you have never tried to write a story before, or if you have you can't do it very well. in a fictional universe you kind of have to establish rules in order for things to feel real. if there is no rule for something, we're to assume it follows the same guidelines in real life.
since transgender issues are not written anywhere in the mass effect universe, when a transgendered character immediately "dead names" herself to someone she's never talked to before, the CORRECT ASSUMPTION would be "whoever wrote this is fucking retarded."
like, straight up bad writing. highschool tiered.
I'm inclined to agree with skylortrexle but context likely would swing me if it was still a big deal in universe.
Not that I'll encounter context short of being shown a clip of the exact scene thanks to knowing nothing about M.E. apart from the 3 colour ending so it ultimately doesn't matter.
[QUOTE=skylortrexle;52063591]I know that you guys are all saying trans people might be physically hurt or emotionally abused if they come out as trans but that is in the [I]modern day[/I]. I'm not saying that I like this character or that she is written well or anything positive but I just want to throw the idea out there that maybe, in the future, being trans isn't a big deal. Replace this conversation with "back home I used to be an office worker." and it's pointless and uninteresting. I would be willing to bet that in this world, casually mentioning you are trans could be easily possible.
Time to retreat from this thread because I know I'm going to get flamed for this even though I don't mean any offense.[/QUOTE]
This is entirely plausible actually, but the fact of the matter is without explaining this to the player it gives false impressions of real world present day trans people.
[QUOTE=skylortrexle;52063591]I know that you guys are all saying trans people might be physically hurt or emotionally abused if they come out as trans but that is in the [I]modern day[/I]. I'm not saying that I like this character or that she is written well or anything positive but I just want to throw the idea out there that maybe, in the future, being trans isn't a big deal. Replace this conversation with "back home I used to be an office worker." and it's pointless and uninteresting. I would be willing to bet that in this world, casually mentioning you are trans could be easily possible.
Time to retreat from this thread because I know I'm going to get flamed for this even though I don't mean any offense.[/QUOTE]
I was tempted to address this because I figured someone would brought it up, but if acceptance were at a point where nobody gives a shit, then you still wouldn't bring it up like that because nobody cares.
Like, ok, so there was a press conference with Gene Roddenberry, and one dude asked why Captain Picard was bald, asserting that surely by the 24th century they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness. Gene responded that surely, by the 24th century, nobody would be so vain as to [I]care.[/I] And it's never brought up in the show because nobody cares.
That would be entirely ruined if a character went up to Picard and then Picard went "I AM BALD, VERY BALD" and the only support for it was saying that because it's the 24th century nobody cares that he's bald. Then why is he talking about it like that?
Same deal here in my eyes.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52063494]they want to diversify casts in videogames but judging from these reactions it seems like quite the gamble if you mess up[/QUOTE]
I mean you always run the gamble when you make something of fucking it up and people criticizing you for it
the problem here isn't that they included a trans person, it's that instead of actually exploring the topic of sexuality and sexual identity in the future, or even touching briefly on how trans people are viewed in society, they just had some random character announce that they're trans for no reason
diversity isn't about making your cast all the colors of the rainbow so that dumb college students won't get mad at you. Diversity is about representing a broad spectrum of human experiences. It's about exploring more of your universe. How do trans people fit into society in the ME universe? That's something I want to know. It's something this kind of writing doesn't tell me.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;52063612]not going to flame you here. but clearly you have never tried to write a story before, or if you have you can't do it very well. in a fictional universe you kind of have to establish rules in order for things to feel real. if there is no rule for something, we're to assume it follows the same guidelines in real life.
since transgender issues are not written anywhere in the mass effect universe, when a transgendered character immediately "dead names" herself to someone she's never talked to before, the CORRECT ASSUMPTION would be "whoever wrote this is fucking retarded."
like, straight up bad writing. highschool tiered.[/QUOTE]
People are fine with brain-implanted human cyborgs in Mass Effect, thinking more about skylortrexle's post it does actually make sense that characters in such a universe would be fine with it. But it's not like Bioware planned or even mentioned this and very clearly threw the character in to try and look diversified.
[editline]5th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;52063627]I mean you always run the gamble when you make something of fucking it up and people criticizing you for it
the problem here isn't that they included a trans person, it's that instead of actually exploring the topic of sexuality and sexual identity in the future, or even touching briefly on how trans people are viewed in society, they just had some random character announce that they're trans for no reason
diversity isn't about making your cast all the colors of the rainbow so that dumb college students won't get mad at you. Diversity is about representing a broad spectrum of human experiences. It's about exploring more of your universe. How do trans people fit into society in the ME universe? That's something I want to know. It's something this kind of writing doesn't tell me.[/QUOTE]
Yes, agreed 100%.
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