• Italian Scientist proves Religious Mystery to be Fake
    60 replies, posted
[quote]ROME (Reuters) – An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake. The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ. "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday. A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs. The Shroud of Turin shows the back and front of a bearded man with long hair, his arms crossed on his chest, while the entire cloth is marked by what appears to be rivulets of blood from wounds in the wrists, feet and side. Carbon dating tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Arizona in 1988 caused a sensation by dating it from between 1260 and 1390. Sceptics said it was a hoax, possibly made to attract the profitable medieval pilgrimage business. But scientists have thus far been at a loss to explain how the image was left on the cloth. Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages. They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face. PIGMENT, BLOODSTAINS AND SCORCHES The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries. They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect. The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion. One of Christianity's most disputed relics, it is locked away at Turin Cathedral in Italy and rarely exhibited. It was last on display in 2000 and is due to be shown again next year. Garlaschelli expects people to contest his findings. "If they don't want to believe carbon dating done by some of the world's best laboratories they certainly won't believe me," he said. The accuracy of the 1988 tests was challenged by some hard-core believers who said restorations of the Shroud in past centuries had contaminated the results. The history of the Shroud is long and controversial. After surfacing in the Middle East and France, it was brought by Italy's former royal family, the Savoys, to their seat in Turin in 1578. In 1983 ex-King Umberto II bequeathed it to the late Pope John Paul. The Shroud narrowly escaped destruction in 1997 when a fire ravaged the Guarini Chapel of the Turin cathedral where it is held. The cloth was saved by a fireman who risked his life. Garlaschelli received funding for his work by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics but said it had no effect on his results. "Money has no odor," he said. "This was done scientifically. If the Church wants to fund me in the future, here I am."[/quote] [url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/sc_nm/us_italy_shroud]Sauce[/url] Sort of makes you wonder if the church knew all along whether or not this was a fake.
God damn, I hate code tags. [editline]fuck[/editline] I cannot find any suitable argument to bring up now that you've fixed it so here's something irrelevant to the article [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0TzOT9WFdI&feature=related[/media]
It's a church conspiracy :Dawkins102: A cloth wouldn't survive 2000 years
[QUOTE=Latias;17684747]God damn, I hate code tags.[/QUOTE] Changed it, sorry.
penn and teller already told us
And yet in my country of origin Catholicism is STILL the state religion even though most developed nations no longer have a state religion and divorce is illegal. So much for separation of church and state...
[QUOTE=ratman_122;17684754]It's a church conspiracy :Dawkins102: A cloth wouldn't survive 2000 years[/QUOTE] IT WAS EMBUED WITH THE POWER OF JESUS!! capital letters
He just kicked the churches Ass.
[QUOTE=610925;17684810]He just kicked the churches Ass.[/QUOTE] Are you sure it wasn't millennia of scientific research, the human's race nature to be logical, and people not needing a Lord to look up to?
[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;17684726]Sorta makes you wonder if the church knew all along whether or not this was fake.[/QUOTE] There's an ancient joke about a set of Christians being sold "pieces of the true cross" by Muslims who were breaking the wood off beached ships. Mark Twain put his own spin on it a couple of times between The Innocents Abroad and something else. I think it's safe to assume "the church" was well aware that it might be a fake.
Jesus used his powers on it to test the non-believers.
Incoming angry christian people
It's not real. Big fucking surprise.
Fancy.
Proven wrong for the 3rd time. Churchs will obviously say " NO ITS REAL!"
[quote]Garlaschelli received funding for his work by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics but said it had no effect on his results.[/quote] Problems with any research of any kind, whether being done by Catholics or Muslims or Atheists or Democrats or Republicans or Capitalists or Communists is that there will always be a hint of biasing depending on who funds the project. There's just no way around it. You really gotta take both sides of the argument and make a judgment for yourself which is the truth. [quote]The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.[/quote] In this case the Catholic Church isn't going to go to any measures to try to defend anything saying its authentic, so I'll go with that it's a copy they made some time ago for ceremonial purposes.
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;17685303]Problems with any research of any kind, whether being done by Catholics or Muslims or Atheists or Democrats or Republicans or Capitalists or Communists is that there will always be a hint of biasing depending on who funds the project. There's just no way around it. You really gotta take both sides of the argument and make a judgment for yourself which is the truth. In this case the Catholic Church isn't going to go to any measures to try to defend anything saying its authentic, so I'll go with that it's a copy they made some time ago for ceremonial purposes.[/QUOTE] Except that they don't name what this association is, so for all you know they're just skewing the facts. Bitch please.
Leonardo Da Vinci was alleged to have faked it. His notebooks refer to 'an imitated relic'. Also, he was an expert with lenses.
Now I have another thing to throw in those pious bastards faces.
No shit, sherlock
And this is news?
This reminded me of that girl that I debated in my 8th grade class with about how the bible was bullshit and she used this as an argument against it. Didn't stop her from bragging about giving the guy sitting behind her in class a blow-job a few days later. Fucking hypocrite.
[QUOTE=Xystus234;17687416]This reminded me of that girl that I debated in my 8th grade class with about how the bible was bullshit and she used this as an argument against it. Didn't stop her from bragging about giving the guy sitting behind her in class a blow-job a few days later. Fucking hypocrite.[/QUOTE] Girls brag about giving oral sex to men? When did this happen? Tell her to come over here. I'll give her something to brag about.:smug:
[QUOTE=Death0nWings;17687666]Girls brag about giving oral sex to men? When did this happen? Tell her to come over here. I'll give her something to brag about.:smug:[/QUOTE] Blowing a Ken doll simulate isn't something to brag about.
[QUOTE=ratman_122;17684754]It's a church conspiracy :Dawkins102: A cloth wouldn't survive 2000 years[/QUOTE] I feel bad for all the naked mummies. :(
[QUOTE=PLing;17688008]I feel bad for all the naked mummies. :([/QUOTE] All cloth = oiled cloth buried in a desert.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;17688039]All cloth = oiled cloth buried in a desert.[/QUOTE] Technically the shroud of turin was purportedly an oiled cloth from the desert but that's beside the point. The point of contention isn't whether or not the cloth would have survived, it's whether or not it was Jesus Christ's face and tears/blood/shitstains that marked it.
It's stupid and ignorant to prove people's religions wrong, I say we put science to something actually useful instead of being able to say "I told you so!" Let them believe whatever the hell they want, go invent a cure for cancer or some shit...
[QUOTE=Scotchair;17688190]It's stupid and ignorant to prove people's religions wrong, I say we put science to something actually useful instead of being able to say "I told you so!" Let them believe whatever the hell they want, go invent a cure for cancer or some shit...[/QUOTE] I don't fucking get this. What sense does it make that if we don't research anything else the cure for cancer will be found faster? Is science some big pie and every bit of research gets a piece?
[QUOTE=Scotchair;17688190]It's stupid and ignorant to prove people's religions wrong, I say we put science to something actually useful instead of being able to say "I told you so!" Let them believe whatever the hell they want, go invent a cure for cancer or some shit...[/QUOTE] Technically we have the cure for cancer. Anyway, remember science is just a collective pseudonym, there are many branches and fields specialising in different aspects of the world.
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