Former Marine Describes Violent Hazing and the Lies That Covered It Up
158 replies, posted
[t]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/30/us/30marines3/30marines3-master675.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE]“We were taught the Marines is all about honor and honesty, and my superiors were constantly telling us all to lie about what was happening,” Mr. Weaver, 21, said in a recent interview at his parents’ home in rural northern Florida. “I had been really proud to join the Marines, but I was not proud of what we were doing.”
A Marine Corps investigation prompted in part by Mr. Weaver’s information has uncovered widespread abuse by drill instructors in the so-called Thumping Third. In a lengthy interview, Mr. Weaver — a top-notch recruit who has since been kicked out of the military, ending his career — provided new details of how he said hazing infected all levels of drill instructors and instructors carefully concealed their abuse and threatened to give recruits “stitches” if anyone told.
The continuing inquiry has so far led to the removal of three leaders. The corps has said 20 Marines face possible criminal charges.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/ex-marine-describes-violent-hazing-and-the-lies-that-covered-it-up.html[/url]
Few weeks old now but it never got to Facepunch. Just thought it was interesting because this kid was in my company and we shared a lot of the same Drill Instructors. Some of the stuff he described is pretty familiar, though imho I've heard worse, and a lot of the investigations they're getting hit with started with my platoon a year ago. AMA.
Do you know what he got kicked out for? Is he a shitbag trying to get one last "fuck you" in, or was he squared away?
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51190714]Do you know what he got kicked out for? Is he a shitbag trying to get one last "fuck you" in, or was he squared away?[/QUOTE]
It said he wasn't able to finish MCT/SOI which is the training after bootcamp (3 months boot, 11 days leave, 1 month MCT (or) 3 months SOI if you're infantry, and then if you're not infantry, however long your job school is) which means he dropped within a month or so. He said what happened to him in boot made him depressed. I can relate since I had to see a chaplain for a while after boot but it was never so bad I had to drop.
Either he realized he didn't want to be a Marine or he was actually depressed. They only talk about it briefly in the article, but apparently his command just dropped him for being a shitbag but now they're fighting it because they're saying it was because of his depression in bootcamp, which changes things. It's honestly up in the air.
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51190728]Either he realized he didn't want to be a Marine or he was actually depressed.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]“Everyone was so proud of me, but I just saw the Marines as one big lie that I was now a part of,” he said.[/QUOTE]
Probably the first one. From the sound of it, he was hit by a serious case of disillusionment. Hard to blame him if that's the kind of crap that they were doing at Parris Island.
I've always heard Marines have a tough boot camp. Army BCT was a miserable experience, but fucking hell, our Drill Sergeants never commit aggravated battery or singled out Muslims or any of the shit I'm seeing in this article. That's not training better Marines, that's goddamn abuse.
:snip:
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51190783]Probably the first one. From the sound of it, he was hit by a serious case of disillusionment. Hard to blame him if that's the kind of crap that they were doing at Parris Island.
I've always heard Marines have a tough boot camp. Army BCT was a miserable experience, but fucking hell, our Drill Sergeants never commit aggravated battery or singled out Muslims or any of the shit I'm seeing in this article.[/QUOTE]
From what I've heard of other branches outside of the AF the shit they get away with in basic is ridiculous. From what IVe been told hitting recruits and hazing have been banned but they still go on and it's something people stay quiet about because it's the way they expect it to be.
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;51190792]If you read the article, it says he was so disturbed by what he saw in boot camp (from which he graduated with merit) that he wasn't sleeping and was eventually hospitalized on suicide watch. After his father intervened and helped his son get an inquiry into the matter, the Marines declared that his depression didn't qualify for a medical discharge, so they kicked him out for failing to report for training.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Lesson learned: read first, post later.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;51190806]From what I've heard of other branches outside of the AF the shit they get away with in basic is ridiculous. From what IVe been told hitting recruits and hazing have been banned but they still go on and it's something people stay quiet about because it's the way they expect it to be.[/QUOTE]
They were the opposite of kind to us in BCT, but the limit of rule breaking for my DSs was swearing and occasionally bending the rules on smoking us.
I only experienced one incident that would qualify as an assault/battery, and that was when one of my platoon's DSs pinned me against a wall for not saying "at ease make way". I wasn't physically harmed, and I really looked up to that particular DS, so I never reported it. Hard to say if I did the right thing or not, but at the time I figured no harm, no foul.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;51190806]From what I've heard of other branches outside of the AF the shit they get away with in basic is ridiculous. From what IVe been told hitting recruits and hazing have been banned but they still go on and it's something people stay quiet about because it's the way they expect it to be.[/QUOTE]
They'd always do lots of illegal shit to us while talking about how easy we had it thanks to us being new and shit. There's plenty of laws against stuff, but that just means DI's find new and creative ways to get around it. I'm honestly convinced it'll never changed.
i didn't encounter any real physical hazing in boot camp. the only time things got sorta physical was when one of the recruits lied about stealing peanut butter from the chow hall and the senior drill instructor grabbed him by the collar. maybe i was just lucky.
I wouldn't be so quick to rally behind this guy. Not to defend any questionable behavior but a lot of disillusioned recruits write home and embellish details. Yes, there is hazing aboard MCRD, both of them. No, I can't speak for his experiences, nor can I speak for East Coast boot camp. However, I know that Drill Instructors are held to incredibly high standards, and that several dozen were recently routed for their misconduct. Only hope that this is a boy who cried wolf, and that this case is investigated.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
I should say, the worst the hazing got in my boot camp platoon was a fat kid who had to go down the line and point at everyone, saying "people like you will die because of people like me!" Honestly have to say that I don't mind that. It hurt the kid's pride but he was a real piece of work, and having to suffer that made him a better team player. Shaming and embarrassment were the worst it ever got on the West Coast, not counting the physical 'incentive training.'
cant you fucking die from being placed in a dryer
wow
A+
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it either. When I went through some kid ended up getting sent home with chemical burns all over his body because (from what I heard) his instructors poured bleach all over him, and I have personally seen physical stuff happen to the recruits that were around me.
wasn't able to finish MCT, that tells me all I need to know about him.
[QUOTE=kyle877;51190975]I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it either. When I went through some kid ended up getting sent home with chemical burns all over his body because (from what I heard) his instructors poured bleach all over him, and I have personally seen physical stuff happen to the recruits that were around me.[/QUOTE]
You'd be suprised the number of people who do dumb shit and get fucked for it and then play the victim card and outright lie about the command to get back at them. I've seen that a lot, I'd wait to see if an investigation pulls up anything before picking a side.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191004]wasn't able to finish MCT, that tells me all I need to know about him.[/QUOTE]
you weren't able to make a single good post, that tells me all I need to know about you
[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;51191070]you weren't able to make a single good post, that tells me all I need to know about you[/QUOTE]
sick burn but get back to me when you know what I'm actually talking about.
some of the hazing described in the article is a little extreme but if this guy is claiming he had severe enough depression from it in boot camp, that he couldn't even finish MCT, he probably has no business being in the Marine Corps. [quote]what he saw at boot camp gnawed at him until he could no longer sleep, he said, and he was too depressed to attend his next level of training. [/quote] like really dude? you couldn't sleep because of hazing at boot camp? [i]boot camp?[/i] I can't be the only one that thinks this dude is a weak body.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51191093]You don't get removed for baseless accusations.[/QUOTE]
This is an important point. A lot of people are quick to say that he's probably bullshitting... but that doesn't fly in the military when people's jobs are on the line. Something must be up.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191097]some of the hazing described in the article is a little extreme but if this guy is claiming he had severe enough depression from it in boot camp, that he couldn't even finish MCT, he probably has no business being in the Marine Corps. like really dude? you couldn't sleep because of hazing at boot camp? [i]boot camp?[/i] I can't be the only one that thinks this dude is a weak body.[/QUOTE]
If I saw shit like that while training for a service that I'm supposed to commit my life fully to I'd get pretty fucking depressed and leave too. This is supposed to be one of the most honorable and brave parts of the US military and they're supposedly stooping to shit like this. Yeah, I don't exactly blame him.
Dude saw disgusting human rights violations and doesn't want to be apart of that, he must be weak. Yeah, okay.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191079]sick burn but get back to me when you know what I'm actually talking about.[/QUOTE]
Get back to us when [b]you[/b] know what you're talking about.
"One drill instructor tumbled a Muslim recruit in a hot clothes dryer, according to a report from the investigation. The same instructor hazed another Muslim recruit repeatedly shortly before the recruit leapt to his death from the barracks, the report found."
That's normal? This guy is weak for being fucked up by that shit?
[QUOTE=Pitchfork;51191136]Get back to us when [b]you[/b] know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
okay genius pls tell me what MCT is
[QUOTE=Pitchfork;51191136]Get back to us when [b]you[/b] know what you're talking about.
"One drill instructor tumbled a Muslim recruit in a hot clothes dryer, according to a report from the investigation. The same instructor hazed another Muslim recruit repeatedly shortly before the recruit leapt to his death from the barracks, the report found."
That's normal? This guy is weak for being fucked up by that shit?[/QUOTE]
You see, the argument is probably gonna go "Well you're gonna see a lot worse shit in the line of duty so if you can't handle that, you aren't fit to serve..." Without realizing that if the "good guys" are doing that shit and that's acceptable, nobody in their right mind would give their lives to that organization.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191097]some of the hazing described in the article is a little extreme but if this guy is claiming he had severe enough depression from it in boot camp, that he couldn't even finish MCT, he probably has no business being in the Marine Corps. like really dude? you couldn't sleep because of hazing at boot camp? [i]boot camp?[/i] I can't be the only one that thinks this dude is a weak body.[/QUOTE]
Why are you so determined to excuse shit that would be considered assault in any other circumstance? I don't think beating someone bloody in a forest because they accidentally struck an instructor falls under the 'will help them be a better marine'.
Not to mention that building a hazing culture that permits extremely violent overreaction is just going to normalise this behaviour and could result in human-rights abuses in the field.
[QUOTE=Pitchfork;51191136]Get back to us when [b]you[/b] know what you're talking about.
"One drill instructor tumbled a Muslim recruit in a hot clothes dryer, according to a report from the investigation. The same instructor hazed another Muslim recruit repeatedly shortly before the recruit leapt to his death from the barracks, the report found."
That's normal? This guy is weak for being fucked up by that shit?[/QUOTE]
That wasn't in his unit but I do believe that's extreme. Look, this kid claims this extreme depression from this hazing in boot camp and refuses to train in MCT. The extreme hazing is definitely not okay, but what about the other Marines in his unit? The ones that got the fuck over it and actually went to the fleet? The kid seems weak as fuck and couldn't hack the Marine Corps.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191145]okay genius pls tell me what MCT is[/QUOTE]
Basic, cut-down combat training for non-infantry. I still don't see the part of that where harassing recruits into suicide and putting them in dryers comes into play. Care to enlighten me?
If you can't get through boot camp without breaking down then why would they want to risk putting you in actual combat? They intentionally treat you like shit to weed out people who can't handle fighting, they're not being mean just because they're awful people.
They're preparing you to go into a war in which other people's lives rely on your performance, the last thing they need is people breaking down in the middle of a firefight.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51191166]If you can't get through boot camp without breaking down then why would they want to risk putting you in actual combat? They intentionally treat you like shit to weed out people who can't handle fighting, they're not being mean just because they're awful people.
They're preparing you to go into a war in which other people's lives rely on your performance, the last thing they need is people breaking down in the middle of a firefight.[/QUOTE]
I fucking called it, amazing.
You see guys, when drill instructors commit felony assault and battery it's just to toughen you up! (Of course investigations are still pending but based on the job losses I highly suspect something is up. But I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure.)
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51191170]I fucking called it, amazing.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations you came to an obvious conclusion?
War is fucking hell, they need soldiers to be prepared for that.
There is a difference between "toughening you up" and "criminal assault, battery, and harassment."
...But I guess that goes over your head for some of you
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51191170]I fucking called it, amazing.
You see guys, when drill instructors commit felony assault and battery it's just to toughen you up! (Of course investigations are still pending but based on the job losses I highly suspect something is up. But I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure.)[/QUOTE]
Marines need to be psychopaths who fly off the handle and overreact to the slightest things because war is hard. If we don't make sure they're assaulting people left, right and centre in boot-camp how can we be sure they'll shoot our enemies in the field???
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51191178]Congratulations you came to an obvious conclusion?
War is fucking hell, they need soldiers to be prepared for that.[/QUOTE]
Unless recruits sign a waver saying that they know that they will be severely beaten on purpose and stuffed in driers, it doesn't justify gross human rights violations based on religion.
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