Not sure how this is "worrying" people chose what they want to study.
[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;52583743]Not sure how this is "worrying" people chose what they want to study.[/QUOTE]
If they don't want to study computing, then they don't have to study computing.
The last thing we want to do is force women into it purely for the sake of diversity.
Clearly we must grab some sticks and beat those girls into taking A-level computing, never mind the carrots!
Like get the fucking picture already, you can't force people into shit they're not interested in.
Fuck off with your statistical qutoas.
Make it interesting then, If I knew my Alevel in IT was basically Excel, Word and Access I wouldn't have bothered with it and taken something else. Heck I did really bad in the exams, yet I walk out of uni with a 1st because of everything I learn't that wasn't MS office in my own time.
[QUOTE=lordofdafood;52583906]Make it interesting then, If I knew my Alevel in IT was basically Excel, Word and Access I wouldn't have bothered with it and taken something else. Heck I did really bad in the exams yet as soon as I walk out of uni with a 1st because of everything I learn't that wasn't MS office[/QUOTE]
Can confirm right here, I'm in IT, never took a single computing class, learned everything myself and therefore i do not hate it.
Still I really don't think it's up to schools to make it interesting. IT is dry shit as it is. You have to already have the interest in it.[I] You have to be intrinsically motivated[/I], something a lot of people are not these days.
You can't force anybody to like anything. Interest has to come from within, and it's nobodies fault if it does not.
Thats the massive issue with this statistical quota bullshit. It's based on the notion that females have the same developing interests and males do, which is straight up untruth.
[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;52583743]Not sure how this is "worrying" people chose what they want to study.[/QUOTE]
Tech companies are constantly being pressured to have 50/50 male female ratios and yet less than 10% of females appear to be studying IT. I'm not surprised this is worrying bosses.
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;52583986]Tech companies are constantly being pressured to have 50/50 male female ratios and yet less than 10% of females appear to be studying IT. I'm not surprised this is worrying bosses.[/QUOTE]
I honestly could not think of a better way to stifle the growth and innovation in the IT industry.
[QUOTE=Medevila;52584017]Figure out WHY girls aren't pursuing this education path, and THEN you'll see industry statistics change..[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong but in my opinion the reason for why is the same reason little girls will in most cases opt for the barbie instead of the batman figurines.
It's a difference in the developmental process in the minds of children.
In fact this debate could easily crossover with the debate of should you encourage your child to 'pick' a gender rather than let them make their own decisions over the duration of their mental growth.
It's the same shit, and because we don't fully understand yet why biology plays a role in mental development and choice in children, we won't understand what's going on here. Therefore there will continue to be people attempting to shoehorn the industry one way or another for as long as it's in question.
I'd imagine a good chunk of this is due to computing not being taught in schools, just ICT and that means that no interest can really be gained outside of actively looking into it.
Keep in mind, maybe a huge reason they don't want to take it is because of how much of a guy's club it is. People assume women are less capable, require more help, and are genetically less able to do the work (hell, just look at some posts above). I've talked to fellow women in C.S and heard plenty of stories of them giving presentations on their graduate research and others assuming they aren't the presenter because they're wearing a dress (and explaning the presenter's own research to them in an insulting way). Had I not heard this directly it is easy to miss it as a guy who never experiences any of it.
I don't think it's wrong to want more women in jobs they don't normally pursue. I of course don't think they should be forced to, but it's worth looking at why they don't make the choice and try to make it more open for them so they have the opportunity.
Imagine in what fabulous position those 9.8% are now, considering nobody cares about this when it comes to actual jobs and companies are almost forced to go 50/50. If you are a girl you are almost guaranteed a job. Not to mention all the scholarships you can get while studying.
My nephew was just accepted into some tech highschool with focus on computer science, and there isn't a single girl in his class.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;52584756]Imagine in what fabulous position those 9.8% are now, considering nobody cares about this when it comes to actual jobs and companies are almost forced to go 50/50. If you are a girl you are almost guaranteed a job. Not to mention all the scholarships you can get while studying.
My nephew was just accepted into some tech highschool with focus on computer science, and there isn't a single girl in his class.[/QUOTE]
I have a friend who is doing Computer Forensics in uni, in a class of 20, 5 of them are girls.
Another friend of mine who is doing Criminology in uni has almost a 50/50 split.
I'm doing Applied Psychology in uni, and it's about 4/5 girls.
[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;52584790]I have a friend who is doing Computer Forensics in uni, in a class of 20, 5 of them are girls.
Another friend of mine who is doing Criminology in uni has almost a 50/50 split.
I'm doing Applied Psychology in uni, and it's about 4/5 girls.[/QUOTE]
I was TD for our university's nursing commencement, and literally 2% of the class were male.
[QUOTE=lordofdafood;52583906]Make it interesting then, If I knew my Alevel in IT was basically Excel, Word and Access I wouldn't have bothered with it and taken something else. Heck I did really bad in the exams, yet I walk out of uni with a 1st because of everything I learn't that wasn't MS office in my own time.[/QUOTE]
They already scrapped ICT years ago, replaced it with Computing which is much more focused on programming and software development
[QUOTE=Medevila;52584017]Outsiders get the impression that IT is where the "good" jobs are at, and women in IT can understandably feel underrepresented, but like others have said you can't force parity at the highest level when there are discrepancies at the lowest level..
Figure out WHY girls aren't pursuing this education path, and THEN you'll see industry statistics change..[/QUOTE]
Because its boring as fuck.
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;52584365]Keep in mind, maybe a huge reason they don't want to take it is because of how much of a guy's club it is. People assume women are less capable, require more help, and are genetically less able to do the work (hell, just look at some posts above). I've talked to fellow women in C.S and heard plenty of stories of them giving presentations on their graduate research and others assuming they aren't the presenter because they're wearing a dress (and explaning the presenter's own research to them in an insulting way). Had I not heard this directly it is easy to miss it as a guy who never experiences any of it.[/QUOTE]
So, I agree with you in principle on the idea that an industry being dominated by one gender can have an impact on the opposite gender's comfortability in said industry. The issue is that this kind of rhetoric usually tends to go down the path of assigning group blame and responsibility on those that benefit from the discrepancy, regardless of any actual individual wrongdoing or even any evidence that members of that group are actually the main forces behind the promulgation of these discrepancies.
It's also certainly not the only force and probably not the main force behind the difference as well.
It's almost as if men and women want different things...
There are jobs out there where very few men are interested in, like nursing, so i don't see the problem. Either gender is going to be attracted to their thing no matter what.
[QUOTE=geel9;52585813]So, I agree with you in principle on the idea that an industry being dominated by one gender can have an impact on the opposite gender's comfortability in said industry. The issue is that this kind of rhetoric usually tends to go down the path of assigning group blame and responsibility on those that benefit from the discrepancy, regardless of any actual individual wrongdoing or even any evidence that members of that group are actually the main forces behind the promulgation of these discrepancies.
It's also certainly not the only force and probably not the main force behind the difference as well.[/QUOTE]
Counter argument - you don't hear many headlines about outreach programs, workshops and summerclasses aimed at teaching girls C.S (e.g [url]https://girlswhocode.com/[/url] [url]https://www.idtech.com/alexa-cafe/[/url] [url]http://ladieslearningcode.com/[/url]), programs that don't assign blame and aren't affirmative action. One hears about things that feel unfair and inteprets privilege as a blame game even though it isn't about that at all. It's similar to conservatives saying 'where are the muslims condemning terrorists' even though that happens literally all the time.
EDIT:
It's silly to presume genetic differences and not address the fact that many countries have different percentages of men/women in different fields (percentages that have been changing a lot over the years while *genetics don't*)
[img]https://realmanswork.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/percentage_male_nurses_by_country-2.png[/img]
It seems obvious to me that many men don't go into nursing mainly because of a social stigma, and not the actual work. Men are dominating EMT and Operating room nursing positions after all and related fields are evening out as we break social barriers.
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