UK Teenage Cancer Patient Wins The Right To Be Cryogenically Preserved
55 replies, posted
[quote]Freezing your body in the hopes of eventually coming back to life might sound ridiculous. But if you knew you were going to die, you might go for it — no matter how slim the odds of success. For a 14-year-old cancer patient in the United Kingdom, it seemed like the best option. And despite the expense and controversy of this unproven life extension technique, a U.K. judge just gave permission for the young girl, who died in October, to be cryogenically frozen.
The ruling is being heralded as ‘historic’ and could set the stage for future cryo-preservation regulations, but the case wasn’t actually about cryonics. It was about who decides what happens to a child’s body after they die.
Children in the U.K. (as well as in the U.S. and most of Europe) aren’t allowed to make legal wills until they’re 18. Until then, their parents have to decide what to do with their remains in the event of an untimely death. That's usually fairly simple — your main options are burial or cremation, and it isn't often that a minor holds strong views on these options that oppose those held by their parents.
But when your kid wants to be cryogenically preserved, you might have some reservations.[/quote]
[url]http://www.popsci.com/teenager-cancer-victim-wins-her-court-case-to-be-cryogenically-preserved[/url]
Talk about a world we live in. Imagine having to win the right to chose how you want your remains to be disposed.
If she died in october and only now is getting turned into an ice-lolly then I have no idea how long it will be until they can fix the inevitable brain death and damage
You know when you wake up you have the feeling you fast forwarded in time? If this cryogenic freeze works, wonder how it will feel waking up in the future.
I mean, it's not legitimate cryo considering that hasn't even been worked out without fucking up the human body due to ice crystallization, but it's a nice sentiment.
[QUOTE=Sprelle;51401127]You know when you wake up you have the feeling you fast forwarded in time? [b]If this cryogenic freeze works[/b], wonder how it will feel waking up in the future.[/QUOTE]
Spoiler alert: it won't.
[QUOTE=EuSKalduna;51401105]If she died in october and only now is getting turned into an ice-lolly then I have no idea how long it will be until they can fix the inevitable brain death and damage[/QUOTE]
They froze her shortly after she died
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51401162]Spoiler alert: it won't.[/QUOTE]
Don't count it out just yet, we're not close enough to make it work as good as freezing embryos because you know, we're a lot more complex of an organism but still I think it's possible but we need more time.
[QUOTE=Water-Marine;51401130]I mean, it's not legitimate cryo considering that hasn't even been worked out without fucking up the human body due to ice crystallization, but it's a nice sentiment.[/QUOTE]
Better article [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3947826/Teenager-cancer-victim-14-British-child-cryogenically-frozen-winning-court-battle-against-father.html] here[/url] explains what they did. They're really just leaving it up to future technology and have no idea if it'll even work, it also costed them £37,000
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/18/08/3A81E4AB00000578-3947826-Process_The_girl_will_have_been_treated_within_minutes_of_death_-a-9_1479456026289.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;51401244]Don't count it out just yet, we're not close enough to make it work as good as freezing embryos because you know, we're a lot more complex of an organism but still I think it's possible but we need more time.[/QUOTE]
Not for anyone who has been frozen up to this point it won't. Cryonics as we know it now is a fancy way of getting buried.
[QUOTE=gudman;51401289]Not for anyone who has been frozen up to this point it won't. Cryonics as we know it now is a fancy way of getting buried.[/QUOTE]
If I wanted a ridiculously expensive burial, I'd rather be smuggled into space and quietly dumped on the moon
That way my mummified corpse is going to start a shitload of conspiracy theories if it gets found
I just always think that it would be more helpful to future doctor scientist men if you weren't already dead.
[QUOTE=EuSKalduna;51401105]If she died in october and only now is getting turned into an ice-lolly then I have no idea how long it will be until they can fix the inevitable brain death and damage[/QUOTE]
AFAIK, being frozen does the same thing.
Either medical science figures out how to repair your body, or they figure out how to transfer your memories into another body.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51401472]I just always think that it would be more helpful to future doctor scientist men if you weren't already dead.[/QUOTE]
Yes! We finally learned how to take out the cadavers out of their vats and defrost them without destroying the brain! Now the only thing left is to learn how to resurrect the dead and we're set.
That is if these firms don't go out of business/"take-the-money-and-run" and the bodies don't get quietly dumped somewhere.
[QUOTE=gudman;51401630]Yes! We finally learned how to take out the cadavers out of their vats and defrost them without destroying the brain! Now the only thing left is to learn how to resurrect the dead and we're set.
That is if these firms don't go out of business/"take-the-money-and-run" and the bodies don't get quietly dumped somewhere.[/QUOTE]
It might not help those who died from old age (at least not as soon as the rest), but I absolutely think that, when we have the technology to defrost the bodies without destroying the brain, we will have the means to also 'reverse' their death. Death isn't some mystical and irreversible thing. Especially in cancer cases, it is a result of either metastasis to the brain (future cancer treatments will be able to remove it, provided the damage to the tissue itself was not bad enough), or metabolic imbalances and organ failure. The cancer metastasizes to the liver, so blood stops clotting or clots too fast. The cancer metastasizes to the kidneys, so blood stops being filtered and pressure regulation goes out of whack. The cancer moves to the bones, and it messes with the calcium balance. It moves to bone marrow and messes with blood production and immune responses. If you fix problems like those, say with readily-available synthetic organs for transplant and new cancer treatments to stop the replacements from being infiltrated, you could 'undo' the damage and bring them awake.
The real question is whether or not the brain is preserved. Everything else, we will be able to fix - and we'll replace it if we can't. And, since we won't know whether the current methods protect the brain enough until we have the means to unfreeze them, at the very least people should have the choice to 'roll the dice'. It's not like there's something worse than death that could happen to them.
I like to think eventually it'll just be easier to do a brain scan, SOMA style than to defrost the body and somehow bring it back to life. I'd be ok with that.
[QUOTE=Pythagoras64;51401883]I like to think eventually it'll just be easier to do a brain scan, SOMA style than to defrost the body and somehow bring it back to life. I'd be ok with that.[/QUOTE]
what if i dont want to lose the coin toss
[QUOTE=AlienCreature;51401840]It might not help those who died from old age (at least not as soon as the rest), but I absolutely think that, when we have the technology to defrost the bodies without destroying the brain, we will have the means to also 'reverse' their death. Death isn't some mystical and irreversible thing. Especially in cancer cases, it is a result of either metastasis to the brain (future cancer treatments will be able to remove it, provided the damage to the tissue itself was not bad enough), or metabolic imbalances and organ failure. The cancer metastasizes to the liver, so blood stops clotting or clots too fast. The cancer metastasizes to the kidneys, so blood stops being filtered and pressure regulation goes out of whack. The cancer moves to the bones, and it messes with the calcium balance. It moves to bone marrow and messes with blood production and immune responses. If you fix problems like those, say with readily-available synthetic organs for transplant and new cancer treatments to stop the replacements from being infiltrated, you could 'undo' the damage and bring them awake.
The real question is whether or not the brain is preserved. Everything else, we will be able to fix - and we'll replace it if we can't. And, since we won't know whether the current methods protect the brain enough until we have the means to unfreeze them, at the very least people should have the choice to 'roll the dice'.[/QUOTE]
Death is not a mystical thing, what we have very loose understanding of is how exactly the brain handles storing and accessing information. The way cryonic stuff works most likely destroys everything by causing massive damage to neurons' dendrites. And even then, at some point it might be technically possible to reverse death and restore brain functions, but if it will be the same person is anyone's guess anyway, what's the point then?
[quote]It's not like there's something worse than death that could happen to them.[/quote]
Asking for money [b]now[/b] while promising something in return literally [b]after you die[/b] sounds kinda like a scam, idk maybe its just me. They aren't going to suffer "fate worse than death", but they've paid money for something that is essentially an expensive burial ritual while being mislead.
Even if some day we will reach the point where we are capable of healing these frozen bodies, will we?
[QUOTE=Veteran;51401074]Talk about a world we live in. Imagine having to win the right to chose how you want your remains to be disposed.[/QUOTE]
in poland it's illegal to hold the ashes of your loved ones in your home because the church wouldn't get money from keeping up the urn graveyards
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=I_love_garrysmod;51401276]Better article [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3947826/Teenager-cancer-victim-14-British-child-cryogenically-frozen-winning-court-battle-against-father.html] here[/url] explains what they did. They're really just leaving it up to future technology and have no idea if it'll even work, it also costed them £37,000
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/18/08/3A81E4AB00000578-3947826-Process_The_girl_will_have_been_treated_within_minutes_of_death_-a-9_1479456026289.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
id totally do it if i'd have the cash
well i suppose my death is (hopefully) not happening any time soon so we shall see
[QUOTE=gudman;51401894]Asking for money [b]now[/b] while promising something in return literally [b]after you die[/b] sounds kinda like a scam, idk maybe its just me. They aren't going to suffer "fate worse than death", but they've paid money for something that is essentially an expensive burial ritual while being mislead.[/QUOTE]
not like they're gonna be using the money anyway tbh
[QUOTE=gudman;51401894]Death is not a mystical thing, what we have very loose understanding of is how exactly the brain handles storing and accessing information. The way cryonic stuff works most likely destroys everything by causing massive damage to neurons' dendrites. And even then, at some point it might be technically possible to reverse death and restore brain functions, but if it will be the same person is anyone's guess anyway, what's the point then?
Asking for money [b]now[/b] while promising something in return literally [b]after you die[/b] sounds kinda like a scam, idk maybe its just me. They aren't going to suffer "fate worse than death", but they've paid money for something that is essentially an expensive burial ritual while being mislead.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I doubt that the current methods are effective, don't get me wrong. In fact, most of the scientific community seems to agree that you probably destroy synapses using the current methods. But we won't know for sure until it's tested with the necessary technology, and that's still several decades away. But there's a lot of amazing stuff happening in the field, like new cryoprotective proteins, and you never know when the next breakthrough will happen. Sure, right now, these people are paying for an expensive burial ritual with the hope that one day they will be revived. It's not a guarantee. But I'd pay for it, even if the chances of being successfully revived are extremely low. Anything's better than zero, especially in matters of literal life and death.
A normal Christian burial will come at a fraction of the cost yet grant a substantially higher chance at obtaining eternal life
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51402011]A normal Christian burial will come at a fraction of the cost yet grant a substantially higher chance at obtaining eternal life[/QUOTE]
Not really though.
This reminds me of that one Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where the crew happens upon a cryogenic capsule filled with people from the 22nd century who had terminal diseases and got frozen for these exact reasons. That was a really interesting episode.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51402016]Not really though.[/QUOTE]
I dunno, I think they're at least comparable. We have little evidence that either ever will happen especially with how destructive cryogenics already appears to be to your body.
Though this is actually pretty interesting to talk about from the christian theology perspective I think. This person died before being frozen. So assuming that all the pearly gates n shit are true, has she gone and been judged or not? If god is omni-everything then that's pretty easy with the answer being either yes or no depending on whether he knows that this person will be revived on earth or not. If god isn't omnitemporal & omniscient at least then that'd be pretty awkward.
And also, would it even be seen as a good thing. I know some christians come to the conclusion that it's sinful to not take pretty much every single option to prolong your life as possible. To them even if you're terminally ill and dying painfully you still need to take every option the doctors give to keep you going.
This is what I want for myself.
[QUOTE=SirJon;51401926]
id totally do it if i'd have the cash
well i suppose my death is (hopefully) not happening any time soon so we shall see[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Talvy;51402087]This is what I want for myself.[/QUOTE]
I get that the prospect of eternal life/living beyond your current expectancy is an enticing one, but do you guys really believe that this would ever work out?
I think if medicine ever becomes advanced enough to reverse the effects of death and our current cryogenic process, your tube would have been shut off long ago anyway because who is going to continue to look out for your interests that far into the future?
I would much rather give my money to my loved ones than pay out to these companies, even if they have good intentions (which I doubt). I'd give them this money while I was alive so I can see them enjoy it and prevent any conflicts over my will. Then I'd want to donate as much of myself as was usable to help save/extend/better the lives of people waiting for donors.
[QUOTE=Pythagoras64;51401883]I like to think eventually it'll just be easier to do a brain scan, SOMA style than to defrost the body and somehow bring it back to life. I'd be ok with that.[/QUOTE]
Problem with that is [I]you[/I] would still die. The brain scan would just be a clone that believes it's you
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;51402186]I get that the prospect of eternal life/living beyond your current expectancy is an enticing one, but do you guys really believe that this would ever work out?
I think if medicine ever becomes advanced enough to reverse the effects of death and our current cryogenic process, your tube would have been shut off long ago anyway because who is going to continue to look out for your interests that far into the future?
I would much rather give my money to my loved ones than pay out to these companies, even if they have good intentions (which I doubt). I'd give them this money while I was alive so I can see them enjoy it and prevent any conflicts over my will. Then I'd want to donate as much of myself as was usable to help save/extend/better the lives of people waiting for donors.[/QUOTE]
I want to be preserved for no reason :saddowns:
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