Hungary is paying its young emigrants to come back home
34 replies, posted
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hungary-is-paying-its-young-emigrants-to-come-back-home-10358509.html[/url]
[QUOTE]The government is offering free flights and £226 a month for a year to young expats if they go back to Hungary
The Hungarian government is running a scheme that encourages young ex-pats to return to the country, by offering them 100,000 forints (£226) every month for a year if they come home.
The [B]'Come home, young person'[/B] scheme also offers free flights back to Hungary for young people living abroad.
Since it began at the end of April, Secretary of State for Employment Sandor Czomba says that around 800 people have taken the government up on the offer.
While the £226 a month doesn't sound like enough to encourage young people to re-patriate, this money would go much further in Hungary than it would in the UK. According to city data website Numbeo, the average rent for a one-bedroom apartment in central Budapest is around £190 a month.
This week, around 100 young Hungarians attended an open day in London to find out more about the new scheme.
Many Eastern European countries have experienced a 'brain drain' of young people moving abroad in search of more jobs and better wages. In Hungary, the average monthly salary is around £450, compared with around £1600 in the UK.
The scheme is in its early days, but it is likely to be welcomed by Hungary's youth as a more positive way of encouraging them to stay in the country -[B] in 2013, the government announced that students receiving state-funded university places must stay in Hungary for at least 10 years after graduation, a policy that many said 'trapped' young people.
Earlier this year, Hungary's Central Statistical Office found out that [B]in 2014, the rate of emigration was 46 per cent higher than it was the previous year.
The 2014 figure is six times the size of the emigration rate in 2009, and the Office warned that the real figure is even higher, as many people do not notify the government when they leave the country. 77 per cent of these emigrants are under 40 years of age.[/B]
For the sake of Hungary's economic future, politicians hope that their generous offer will be attractive enough.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Are young Hungarians in their home country offered the same benefits for choosing to stay?
Hmm, I wonder if this applies to me. I'm American by birth, but my family is Hungarian, and I speak the language fluently. It might be a good backup plan if my life in California sours.
[editline]6th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48138918]Are young Hungarians in their home country offered the same benefits for choosing to stay?[/QUOTE]
I suppose someone could simply fake expatriation, do it for a month or two or three, in order to receive the benefits.
The government paying for your uni forcing you to stay seems reasonable.
Assuming they let you go on vacation and business trips.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48138957]The government paying for your uni forcing you to stay seems reasonable.
Assuming they let you go on vacation and business trips.[/QUOTE]
If you think about it, free state education is like an investment, and the state would not get its ROI if the student were to work in another country, you can't tax them unless they're working in Hungary.(Unless they're US citizens, in wich case, for some odd reasons it seems that you can tax them even if they're not working in America.)
[QUOTE=godfatherk;48138990]If you think about it, free state education is like an investment, and the state would not get its ROI if the student were to work in another country, you can't tax them unless they're working in Hungary.(Unless they're US citizens, in wich case, for some odd reasons it seems that you can tax them even if they're not working in America.)[/QUOTE]
Makes sense, but ten years seems a bit excessive if you ask me
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48138957]The government paying for your uni forcing you to stay seems reasonable.
Assuming they let you go on vacation and business trips.[/QUOTE]
The state restricting personal mobility for any reason seems questionable.
In here Azerbaijan, state pays for the overseas education (USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Europe) of the young students (bachelors&masters degree) with just one condition, they have to come back and work in Azerbaijan (any sector or company) for 5 years.
Lots of people i know are taking the deal, because after 5 years they can got to anywhere they want and live/work there.
[QUOTE=Furioso;48138930]Hmm, I wonder if this applies to me. I'm American by birth, but my family is Hungarian, and I speak the language fluently. It might be a good backup plan if my life in California sours.[/QUOTE]
I think it only applies to to Hungarian citizens (or at least someone who had previous Hungarian citizenship as it mentions expats specificly) I don't think just knowing Magyar is really enough.
[QUOTE=Kastro;48139703]In here Azerbaijan, state pays for the overseas education (USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Europe) of the young students (bachelors&masters degree) with just one condition, they have to come back and work in Azerbaijan (any sector or company) for 5 years.
Lots of people i know are taking the deal, because after 5 years they can got to anywhere they want and live/work there.[/QUOTE]
holy shit, young people in Azerbaijan have it better than we do in Russia, and yet people keep snickering about azer students scoring high on the exams
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;48139679]The state restricting personal mobility for any reason seems questionable.[/QUOTE]
If the government is paying for your education it should be trying to use that education to benefit society as a whole. In fact the person receiving that education should feel obligated to benefit his country.
Great, pay for some guys education and he goes off to Japan or America. Not really beneficial the tax payers that funded it all or the country that was hoping to use public post secondary as a way to strengthen itself.
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;48139679]The state restricting personal mobility for any reason seems questionable.[/QUOTE]
A similar thing in Khazakstan.
Not sure about Hungary but there the government pays for all education including sending to university in the UK. People accept those terms with the understanding that afterwards they stay in the country to pay back to the state/society/nation. If you want the "personal mobility" don't ask the state to pay 1000s of education.
It happens lots, brain drain, people with good education opt to go to countries with higher pay and leave their home countries to decay with an uneducated/aging population.
At least Hungary has learned it's lesseon. You don't lower emigration through force but by giving your citizens a better life.
This won't change the fact that I gonna leave, lol.
[QUOTE=spiritlol;48139851]At least Hungary has learned it's lesseon. You don't lower emigration through force but by giving your citizens a better life.[/QUOTE]
Except they are attempting to do it by force if they're not letting the students leave whilst they're at university?
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;48140259]Except they are attempting to do it by force if they're not letting the students leave whilst they're at university?[/QUOTE]
Well, not everyone have to sign the contract, I didn't have to sign anything like that when I started.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48139805]If the government is paying for your education it should be trying to use that education to benefit society as a whole. In fact the person receiving that education should feel obligated to benefit his country.
Great, pay for some guys education and he goes off to Japan or America. Not really beneficial the tax payers that funded it all or the country that was hoping to use public post secondary as a way to strengthen itself.[/QUOTE]
Talk to someone from Singapore to see just how much they enjoy the state restricting their mobility, how much would you like it if you were told by the state "please stay here for at least x years, or pay X hundreds of thousands dollars" to be able to leave.
If the state has to impose such measures to get their citizens to stay and work in their country, they should really focus their efforts on improving the quality of life, rather than forcing them to stay in that dump.
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;48140663]Talk to someone from Singapore to see just how much they enjoy the state restricting their mobility, how much would you like it if you were told by the state "please stay here for at least x years, or pay X hundreds of thousands dollars" to be able to leave.
If the state has to impose such measures to get their citizens to stay and work in their country, they should really focus their efforts on improving the quality of life, rather than forcing them to stay in that dump.[/QUOTE]
Making the educated stay in the country (in most cases after the state funded their education) is an attempt at them improving quality of a life. If all the intelligent people leave the country then that really screws them over, reduces the chance of future generations in that country having the same opportunities you did and reduces the potential quality of life of the people living them.
I understand the grief and the whole "muh freedums" thing but if the state provides you with education then it's kind of a dick move to use that education to leave for elsewhere and never pay it back. I'm not 100% stateist or whatever but there should be some social responsibility. At least work there for a while, pay some taxes, contribute something back before you decide to ditch them and move to (insert highly paid place here)
I hate the idea of using debt or obligation to control people but its a pretty serious issue in some place. I'm not sure about all the places but in the Kazakhstan example I mentioned before, the person agreed to take the money saying they would return for work for a few years in that country. If you don't like the terms, then don't take the deal that way you can be guilt/obligation free when you decide to leave them behind and find a better place.
(sort of ironic that I'm enforcing the idea of debt to society here yet supporting people defaulting from debt in a different thread, sadly I seem to be a hypocrite. not even sure if that is actually irony. I'm an uneducated hypocrite.)
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;48140663]
If the state has to impose such measures to get their citizens to stay and work in their country, they should really focus their efforts on improving the quality of life, rather than forcing them to stay in that dump.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure you understand what this is about or why countries do this or even what your argument is here. That is the whole purpose of programs like that, educating citizens so they can come back and use their skills acquired at high quality institutions abroad to improve quality of life. You act like, as if a poorer country can just magically improve worker skill and technical training quality with the flick of a magic wand or some shit.
People go abroad, they learn from 'the best', they come home and either perform high quality service for a few years, or spend it teaching others how to be just as good. This shit isn't fucking magic.
Hungarian Politics though, you might need a magic wand for that one.
It's a large balancing act based on individual freedoms and state prosperity, one that's mostly troubling to people in the Western world most brought up by individualism. The trouble that it provides is that there are usually debts owed more than simply money, and obligations that aren't that easily broken.
When the state pays for your education, then you must also in return bow to it and help the state prosper as you can, otherwise it's to be too self-serving and ruin the money spent on you in hopes of you giving back.
[QUOTE=Furioso;48138930]Hmm, I wonder if this applies to me. I'm American by birth, but my family is Hungarian, and I speak the language fluently. It might be a good backup plan if my life in California sours.[/QUOTE]
You live in [i]California[/i] and you would choose [i]Hungary[/i] as your backup plan? Hungary should be one of the last places on your list of places to move. Do you not realize how big of a downgrade it would be to move there? How many fewer opportunities you would have?
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;48140663]Talk to someone from Singapore to see just how much they enjoy the state restricting their mobility, how much would you like it if you were told by the state "please stay here for at least x years, or pay X hundreds of thousands dollars" to be able to leave.[/QUOTE]
If they paid for my education and I was knowledgeable of this before I agreed to it I wouldn't complain.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;48141478]You live in [i]California[/i] and you would choose [i]Hungary[/i] as your backup plan? Hungary should be one of the last places on your list of places to move. Do you not realize how big of a downgrade it would be to move there? How many fewer opportunities you would have?[/QUOTE]
I think you exaggerate, there are assuredly worse places to be in the world than Hungary. Besides, I'd really only do it if my life in the US was circling the drain and I was running out of options, but I don't think this applies to me anyway.
How about making graduates stay by improving country conditions instead of pretty much putting them under country arrest?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;48141478]You live in [i]California[/i] and you would choose [i]Hungary[/i] as your backup plan? Hungary should be one of the last places on your list of places to move. Do you not realize how big of a downgrade it would be to move there? How many fewer opportunities you would have?[/QUOTE]
Hungary isn't remotely that bad, hell I'm going on vacation next month to Nyíregyháza to stay with a close friend. It's Hungary, not somalia so calm the fuck down man. :v:
[QUOTE=Ta16;48143896]Hungary isn't remotely that bad, hell I'm going on vacation next month to Nyíregyháza to stay with a close friend. It's Hungary, not somalia so calm the fuck down man. :v:[/QUOTE]
Where did I imply Hungary was "that bad"? Where did I say it was the worst place in the world?
You guys just read that into my post. Try reading again.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;48144115]Where did I imply Hungary was "that bad"? Where did I say it was the worst place in the world?
You guys just read that into my post. Try reading again.[/QUOTE]
[quote] Hungary should be one of the last places on your list of places to move[/quote]
Being one of the last places in the list generally implies it is one of the worst items in the list (assuming the it is an ordered list from best to worst) implying "hungry is one of the worst places to move to"
"one of the" carries some weight but I guess thats down to interpretation.
[QUOTE=Ta16;48140757]I'm not sure you understand what this is about or why countries do this or even what your argument is here. That is the whole purpose of programs like that, educating citizens so they can come back and use their skills acquired at high quality institutions abroad to improve quality of life. You act like, as if a poorer country can just magically improve worker skill and technical training quality with the flick of a magic wand or some shit.
People go abroad, they learn from 'the best', they come home and either perform high quality service for a few years, or spend it teaching others how to be just as good. This shit isn't fucking magic.
Hungarian Politics though, you might need a magic wand for that one.[/QUOTE]
My post was more specifically about the government imposing restrictions on citizens after "supporting" their cost of education, rather than strictly about Hungary's situation right now, sorry if it came off as a bit of a tangent :v:
But sure, I can definitely see why Hungary would do it, or why governments see it like the people should feel obligated to contribute in return for the support.
It's also not like the only way to improve things is to retain certain people who intend to leave, it's not the only tool in the hands of the government. Then again, I'm not exactly an expert in the matter, so I could certainly be wrong.
You can make an argument without resorting to "you don't understand anything" by the way, it only degrades your point.
If it was up to me I'd require college graduates to stay 5 years, the length of the standard 4 year degree the state paid for plus 1 year. 10 years is far too much, unless we are talking graduates of Masters or Phd programs.
I think of it like a military enlistment. You get something from the state, you give something back. 5 years goes by fast once you're out of school.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48142878]How about making graduates stay by improving country conditions instead of pretty much putting them under country arrest?[/QUOTE]
Because they need the graduates to stay before conditions in the country can improve. Hungary is suffering from a brain drain where the people who can contribute the most to society are instead pursuing opportunities in other countries.
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