• California passes bill to license more drivers who are here illegally.
    114 replies, posted
[url=http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-legislature-20130913,0,4343595.story]LATIMES[/url] [quote]A flurry of additional proposals sent to the governor would also affect immigrants, as well as gun users, teachers and job applicants. In addition, nannies, private healthcare aides and some other domestic workers would receive overtime pay under bill also headed for the governor's desk. The driver's license measure would significantly expand the number of immigrants in the country illegally who could have such documents. Some young, undocumented residents are already eligible for licenses under state law, if they qualify for temporary federal work permits. "This bill will enable millions of people to get to work safely and legally," Brown said in a statement issued immediately after the bill passed. "Hopefully, it will send a message to Washington that immigration reform is long past due."[/quote] Illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting licenses when they're in this country illegally.
yo even mexicans need to drive
This is cool, hopefully it leads to them actually being legalized though
why shouldn't immigrants be allowed to drive? it has no negative affect on any of us. sure they're illegal, but that doesn't mean they should be shunned and not allowed to drive a fucking car
[QUOTE=Slacker996;42192701]yo even mexicans need to drive[/QUOTE] They do so, illegally. The point isn't a matter of allowing them to drive legally or have safer roads. Driver licenses in the US are basically an be-all ID that you're an American citizen. Giving them these will screw up a lot of things.
Well OP they really only have two options at this point. One would be to pick them up at every possible chance and send them back across the border which is expensive, the other being let them stay and try to get them all to integrate into society. Otherwise you just have millions of people with no licence/insurance/social security number out there working, driving, and not paying taxes. I would like to see them all become citizens, at least on some level. I want them to pay taxes and fees like I have to. Sending them back really solves nothing because I'm sure a large percentage of them just come right back. It wastes so much money in manpower, and vehicles, and maintenance. Instead of creating another source of debt, we should be creating another source of income by allowing them to work and pay taxes like anyone else. I would also suggest that they are not allowed to receive welfare benefits for 2 years. I think that most of these people are just hardworking Mexican people coming here for a chance at freedom and a better life. I think so many of them turn to crime because of our "Get out" attitude. We should see them as a benefit and not a detriment since I believe most of them want to be productive. Maybe even offer them military service in exchange for citizenship. The sheer logistics of tracking down and removing 8,000,000 people from their homes requires technology I don't even want to imagine. in short: you can stick to your guns and try to send 8,000,000 people back home, build a huge fence, and shoot on sight everyone trying to cross. OR you can take in the new force of 8,000,000 people and put them to work/combat and integrate them into your society. It may feel like an injustice, and it sort of is, but we have to decide if righting an injustice is worth destroying our own country even further.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;42192774] Maybe even offer them military service in exchange for citizenship. [/QUOTE] That is already a thing. I believe it's like 8 years of service and at the end of your discharge, you get citizenship.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;42192774]Well OP they really only have two options at this point. One would be to pick them up at every possible chance and send them back across the border which is expensive, the other being let them stay and try to get them all to integrate into society. Otherwise you just have millions of people with no licence/insurance/social security number out there working, driving, and not paying taxes. I would like to see them all become citizens, at least on some level. I want them to pay taxes and fees like I have to. Sending them back really solves nothing because I'm sure a large percentage of them just come right back. It wastes so much money in manpower, and vehicles, and maintenance. Instead of creating another source of debt, we should be creating another source of income by allowing them to work and pay taxes like anyone else. I would also suggest that they are not allowed to receive welfare benefits for 2 years. I think that most of these people are just hardworking Mexican people coming here for a chance at freedom and a better life. I think so many of them turn to crime because of our "Get out" attitude. We should see them as a benefit and not a detriment since I believe most of them want to be productive. Maybe even offer them military service in exchange for citizenship.[/QUOTE] The funny thing about the paying taxes part is that quite a few illegal immigrants do pay income taxes. There is a pretty significant amount of illegal immigrants who use fake SSN to get jobs and thus have to pay the same taxes as everyone else but will never be able to take out any benefits. Employers and the government don't want to go after them because they are easily exploitable workers. I agree with you on they should be all citizens. In fact the best system would be one where there is no path to citizenship, rather it is just granted to anyone who wants it.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;42192685] Illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting licenses when they're in this country illegally.[/QUOTE] they shouldn't be illegal in the first place. a person shouldn't be considered a criminal for crossing some imaginary line
those pesky immigrants, i wish there were a way i could express the anger i feel when i see a mexican but i just dont want to look like a racist in front of my friends!
I know them damn illegal Mexicans need to be forced to drive unlicensed (without taking any tests to prove they can drive) instead.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42192728]They do so, illegally. The point isn't a matter of allowing them to drive legally or have safer roads. Driver licenses in the US are basically an be-all ID that you're an American citizen. Giving them these will screw up a lot of things.[/QUOTE] Make driver licenses for non-citizens a different color so officials could easily tell them from the citizens' ones. There. Problem solved
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42192837]they shouldn't be illegal in the first place. a person shouldn't be considered a criminal for crossing some imaginary line[/QUOTE] As long as they are documented that they live here, And then your going to say well it's impossible to get in and I agree. We need to fix that. But to have anyone and everyone able to jump borders without any problems is a huge issue.
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;42192938]As long as they are documented that they live here, And then your going to say well it's impossible to get in and I agree. We need to fix that. But to have anyone and everyone able to jump borders without any problems is a huge issue.[/QUOTE] What are the exact problems that instant immigration would cause?
[QUOTE=Valnar;42192954]What are the exact problems that instant immigration would cause?[/QUOTE] documented immigration is preferable to undocumented immigration. the only reason illegal immigrants don't see documentation is because they're illegal, though. it's a shame the US forces people to hide in fear of their own lives.
[QUOTE=Bobie;42192972]documented immigration is preferable to undocumented immigration. the only reason illegal immigrants don't see documentation is because they're illegal, though. it's a shame the US forces people to hide in fear of their own lives.[/QUOTE] You make it sound like being here illegally is punishable by death.
[QUOTE=Bobie;42192972]documented immigration is preferable to undocumented immigration. the only reason illegal immigrants don't see documentation is because they're illegal, though. it's a shame the US forces people to hide in fear of their own lives.[/QUOTE] So then when you find someone who is undocumented you grant them citizenship like giving them a SSN.
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;42192938]As long as they are documented that they live here, And then your going to say well it's impossible to get in and I agree. We need to fix that. But to have anyone and everyone able to jump borders without any problems is a huge issue.[/QUOTE] yea god forbid that people are able to move freely, we really need to make sure that people have to go through arbitrary channels to be anywhere. hell, while we are at it we should put border crossings at every state border. i sure as hell don't want dirty oregonians in MY state. [editline]14th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42192996]You make it sound like being here illegally is punishable by death.[/QUOTE] it's punishable by kidnapping and forced relocation.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42192837]they shouldn't be illegal in the first place. a person shouldn't be considered a criminal for crossing some imaginary line[/QUOTE] Being arbitrary doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42192837]they shouldn't be illegal in the first place. a person shouldn't be considered a criminal for crossing some imaginary line[/QUOTE] yeah mayne, we're all ~citizens of the world~
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42192996]You make it sound like being here illegally is punishable by death.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42193011]it's punishable by kidnapping and forced relocation.[/QUOTE] the deportation process is ridiculously shit, where you're given an optional day in court to explain why you should stay in the US; if you fail to become a member of the lucky 2% who get stay, you're thrown back at the gates of your home country and are forced to start again from scratch.
[QUOTE=Lamar;42193033]yeah mayne, we're all ~citizens of the world~[/QUOTE] maybe one day when all the nationalists and xenophobes go fuck off.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42192826]That is already a thing. I believe it's like 8 years of service and at the end of your discharge, you get citizenship.[/QUOTE] Two or so, actually.
if they're willing to cross miles of desert, bypass our security and border to wash my dishes or mow my lawn while paying they're taxes ( they do, it's not as if you can magically avoid taxes cause you're an illegal ) well fuck, give them a handshake and call them an american, they're working 10x harder than anyone else for a shittier reward for the sake of a possible good future for them and their children
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42193110]maybe one day when all the nationalists and xenophobes go fuck off.[/QUOTE] Even outside of nationalism and xenophobia, opening borders to everyone so they can become citizens merely by being on your soil is an administrative nightmare and will hilariously strain public services. And when I say hilarious I mean they'll be scrapped because they get abused like hell.
On the whole "illegal" stance I have a lot of mixed feelings. I understand many many people are used a sex slaves and or regular slaves, some sneak out to get food or escape from being executed for some fucked up reason. Those are the people that I don't really mind but I would like them to acquire proper papers. Now for the others that just do it because they don't want to sign in or anything need deported.
get these illegals out of my sacred country *fireworks go off in the background*
There's also the matter of insurance if you ever get involved in a car crash. All California drives are required to have insurance as well for their vehicles.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42192837]they shouldn't be illegal in the first place. a person shouldn't be considered a criminal for crossing some imaginary line[/QUOTE] Its not imaginary in the least bit
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;42193295]There's also the matter of insurance if you ever get involved in a car crash. All California drives are required to have insurance as well for their vehicles.[/QUOTE] do you guys think illegal immigrants are like black holes that pays nothing they alread pay taxes, they'll pay for insurance lol
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