[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChYurf6WMAE4cWI.jpg[/IMG]
[I]Image from Greenpeace.[/I]
[QUOTE=Greenpeace]The classified documents represent more than two-thirds of the overall TTIP text as of April, at the 13th round of TTIP negotiations in New York. They cover 13 chapters addressing issues ranging from telecommunications to regulatory cooperation, from pesticides, food and agriculture to trade barriers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Neues Deutschland]A comprehensive leak from the previously undisclosed negotiation text on the controversial trade agreement TTIP between Europe and the United States confirms the concerns of critics: It obviously threatens significantly weaker environmental standards and the US government puts much more pressure on governments in the EU than previously known. As Greenpeace said in a statement, is the regulation system put in place in the EU at risk, which ensures that only products are allowed for sale that are proven to be harmless to humans and the environment, to be replaced by the US 'risk principle'. This would also allow controversial and in many countries not approved gene-manipulated plants and food as well as meat created with growth hormones to be sold and eaten until proven to be harmful.[/QUOTE]
This is pretty fresh of the press, I think only German outlets are covering it so far. Greenpeace will release the documents to the public tomorrow (Monday), maybe English sources will cover it then.
Sources:
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal[/URL] - [B]NEW[/B], thanks to OmniConsUme
[URL]http://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/en/News/2016/TTIPleaks-confidential-TTIP-papers-unveil-US-position/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/ttip-211.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article154933930/Laut-geheimen-TTIP-Papieren-ueben-USA-Druck-auf-EU-aus.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/1010504.grosses-greenpeace-leak-zeigt-ttip-albtraum.html[/URL]
Welt.de Google Translate:
[URL]https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Farticle154933930%2FLaut-geheimen-TTIP-Papieren-ueben-USA-Druck-auf-EU-aus.html&edit-text=&act=url[/URL]
[QUOTE=Selek;50238688]This is pretty fresh of the press, I think only German outlets are covering it so far. Greenpeace will release the documents to the public tomorrow (Monday), maybe English sources will cover it then.
Sources:
[URL]http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/ttip-211.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article154933930/Laut-geheimen-TTIP-Papieren-ueben-USA-Druck-auf-EU-aus.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/1010504.grosses-greenpeace-leak-zeigt-ttip-albtraum.html[/URL]
Welt.de Google Translate:
[URL]https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Farticle154933930%2FLaut-geheimen-TTIP-Papieren-ueben-USA-Druck-auf-EU-aus.html&edit-text=&act=url[/URL][/QUOTE]
Welp this confirmed France will just veto, goodbye TTIP.
It also will kill momentum of having the talks end before mid 2017.
At last we'll actually have something concrete.
What pisses me off is the fact is that My government wants to force our regulatory standards as the best ones, basically dragging the EU down to make it so.
Edit: Guardian now has a article [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/greenpeace"]http://www.theguardian.com/environment/greenpeace[/URL]
I just realized, this could kill TISA in Europe too?
Why? It's just became known that the EU Commision has been lying to the European Parlement, meaning they Will not trust them!
If we sign that deal we might as well sign away our independence and our very freedom. We are already neck deep in economic trouble last thing we want is the last domestic businesses to close down too.
Noone even knows why they're scared they just think that a completely normal trade agreement is super scary because is has a spooky name and because all of a sudden untrustworthy activists are telling the truth
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50239413]Noone even knows why they're scared they just think that a completely normal trade agreement is super scary because is has a spooky name and because all of a sudden untrustworthy activists are telling the truth[/QUOTE]
Nope this has legitimate reasons, like the US forcing the EU to pull down to our regulatory standards.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50239413]Noone even knows why they're scared they just think that a completely normal trade agreement is super scary because is has a spooky name and because all of a sudden untrustworthy activists are telling the truth[/QUOTE]
Yeah and NAFTA was a perfect bill that did nothing wrong and created no fucked up situations what so ever
Because legislation that's drafted by the wealthiest, for the wealthiest, will play out super well for the not wealthy, right? Historically, you'd be wrong.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50238968]What pisses me off is the fact is that My government wants to force our regulatory standards as the best ones, basically dragging the EU down to make it so.[/QUOTE]
They don't do it because they're the best, they do it because they're lenient. It lets businesses sell potentially unsafe products until they're proven to be unsafe. But by that time, money has already been made and people have already been hurt.
For once those idiots do something useful! Now if only they'd [i]always[/i] do things like this, drop the borderline eco-terroristic bullshit they've made a name doing over the years...
[QUOTE=TestECull;50239951]For once those idiots do something useful! Now if only they'd [i]always[/i] do things like this, drop the borderline eco-terroristic bullshit they've made a name doing over the years...[/QUOTE]
Greenpeace may have increased momentum to get the TTIP dead.
Also nice to see the US rejected the ISDS replacement too.
That actually would get Merkel Pissed off. She Genuinely hated the ISDS system.
God I hope when these deals fail someone will write a case study in how to piss off most of the worlds population
The amount of corporate interest negotiated in these leaks shows that these trade deals have not been made in good faith to the citizens of each respected nations
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50239754]They don't do it because they're the best, they do it because they're lenient. It lets businesses sell potentially unsafe products until they're proven to be unsafe. But by that time, money has already been made and people have already been hurt.[/QUOTE]
Fortunately, the EU hasn't been budging on that in the negotiations, judging by the documents and have also announced they wouldn't, but if they really want the other stuff enough, they still might.
I'm hoping that someone will make a comprehensive list of what each side really would get out of it according to these documents, since other than European products being sold/exported easier and cheaper to America, I'm not really sure what Europeans are even getting out of this deal other than terrible American regulations and corruption. I'll post the list up here once I find a good source.
The other weird thing (that we obviously knew already) is just how secretive these papers are. They don't hide state secrets, yet the US is acting like these drafts are the plans to the Death Star or something.
[QUOTE=Selek;50241165]Fortunately, the EU hasn't been budging on that in the negotiations, judging by the documents and have also announced they wouldn't, but if they really want the other stuff enough, they still might.
I'm hoping that someone will make a comprehensive list of what each side really would get out of it according to these documents, since other than European products being sold/exported easier and cheaper to America, I'm not really sure what Europeans are even getting out of this deal other than terrible American regulations and corruption. I'll post the list up here once I find a good source.
[B]The other weird thing (that we obviously knew already) is just how secretive these papers are. They don't hide state secrets, yet the US is acting like these drafts are the plans to the Death Star or something.[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it's obvious why, isin't it? The minute this gets picked up by most european news networks, is the minute that it will be close to impossible to get any of those "lenient" policies the the US want into the final agreement... unless all EU politicians believe so badly in that version of the deal that they are willing to commit political suicide for Americas sake.
[QUOTE=Muggi;50241546]Well, it's obvious why, isin't it? The minute this gets picked up by most european news networks, is the minute that it will be close to impossible to get any of those "lenient" policies the the US want into the final agreement... unless all EU politicians beleive so badly in that version of the deal that they are willing to commit political suicide for Americas sake.[/QUOTE]
Sure it's obvious, but it's so obvious to the point that one wonders why they think that'd ever get to pass in a democratic society. Our societies are built around transparent politics, so if any politician might think that if he/she ever were to accept the US' deal and then expect not to get politically lynched by their country afterwards, they lack basic common sense and any understanding of what their job is.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50239413]Noone even knows why they're scared they just think that a completely normal trade agreement is super scary because is has a spooky name and because all of a sudden untrustworthy activists are telling the truth[/QUOTE]
I don't want companies from the US to be able to sue my Government in the country governed by my government.
I don't want some of the ridiculous US standards for toxins in my food.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50240809]God I hope when these deals fail someone will write a case study in how to piss off most of the worlds population
The amount of corporate interest negotiated in these leaks shows that these trade deals have not been made in good faith to the citizens of each respected nations[/QUOTE]
Just so you know, the TPP's best chance is a lame duck vote, However Former Defense Secretary Panneta just said that may not happen if "Major outstanding issues" aren't fixed, and just recently a group of Conservatives (In the house, 75 Outside Leaders, and Ted Cruz) just launched an initiative to basically kill this years lame duck.
[QUOTE=Killuah;50241870]I don't want companies from the US to be able to sue my Government in the country governed by my government.
I don't want some of the ridiculous US standards for toxins in my food.[/QUOTE]
I have a proposition.
As a trade-off for worse environmental and consumer protection standards in the EU, we get less restricted gun ownership!
Could I clarify whether people are scared of this trade deal in particular or are scared of all trade deals in general because it seems to generally be the latter masquerading as the former
The leaks released. There is Absolutely no way the Main Part of the Agreement could have been completed in 2016, now since it leaked even more so. I think the EU Trade Commisioner was waiting to find the next full EU Parlement-Commissioner meeting to discuss what was really going on, So that is why there was no counter proposals in the documents yet,
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50242261]I have a proposition.
As a trade-off for worse environmental and consumer protection standards in the EU, we get less restricted gun ownership![/QUOTE]
Poor quality guns? Sounds like an excellent bargain if I say so myself
If your confused on why the main part of the agreement needed to be done by 2016, is the EU Elections, If main part wasn't done in 2016; chances were likely for talks to not get back up til end 2017- beginning 2018, albeit in a damaged form for the US's tastes, yet EU is still putting up a fight.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50242358]Poor quality guns? Sounds like an excellent bargain if I say so myself[/QUOTE]
Not poor quality, or would you consider the guns freely manufactured and circulated in the U.S. as poor quality? And it was a joke anyways. :vs:
But more importantly, your flagdog and finnish avatar I find very fascinating, considering you're not a Finn.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50242405]Not poor quality, or would you consider the guns freely manufactured and circulated in the U.S. as poor quality? And it was a joke anyways. :vs:[/quote]
It's just that with poor environmental standards, consumer protection laws, etc that it's likely that even the stuff we'd (in all of Europe) be allowed to purchase from America would have poor quality control anyways :V
[quote]But more importantly, your flagdog and finnish avatar I find very fascinating, considering you're not a Finn.[/QUOTE]
Fascinatingly, I'm here on holiday to see a rather fascinating girl in Pohjanmaa.
Wanna meet up and do something dirty?
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