I wish id the best of luck. They really do have to prove themselves because they are not the same team that made the original DOOM.
Yeah they sure have been true to the doom series with the emphasis on cutscene-based melee kills, and a two weapon limit for the multiplayer :v:
Oh wait.
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304081]Yeah they sure have been true to the doom series with the emphasis on cutscene-based melee kills, and a two weapon limit for the multiplayer :v:
Oh wait.[/QUOTE]
I agree and also would prefer a centered weapon and inability to look up and down, since I too hate change.
[QUOTE=gk99;48304558]I agree and also would prefer a centered weapon and inability to look up and down, since I too hate change.[/QUOTE]
Should I remind you all the shitstorms when DNF came out and had same "awesome changes"?
[QUOTE=Hammer7;48304574]Should I remind you all the shitstorms when DNF came out and had same "awesome changes"?[/QUOTE]
DNF was a wreck from the start.
Going to be hard to prove themselves when machine games managed to pull off one of the best modern takes on an ancient fps [I]twice[/I].
I have my doubts about that "The outfit that invented the FPS" claim. I wonder how many of the original team that made Wolf3D, Doom, Doom 2 etc. are still working there or if Id is Id in name only.
I don't think they should've made a new Doom, I don't think they should've even tried to make it their big blockbuster, because they're going to have to make sacrifices and it's not going to please the original audience or the new audience as much as it could. Pete Hines wants to go for the current shooter audience, and Doom isn't suited to appeal to that, IMO.
[QUOTE=gk99;48304558]I agree and also would prefer a centered weapon and inability to look up and down, since I too hate change.[/QUOTE]
I was waiting for someone to say something this. Look, I'm cynical about Doom 4 because they've got the wrong idea about Doom, it's not about "rip and tear, with gallons of blood" and just saying it's about shotguns and demons would be a disservice to it.
Doom's about clever level design and using monster infighting and map knowledge to your advantage. From what we've seen so far, ammo caps are low and there's a strong focus on those glory kill takedown things. Melee will most likely only be just that, a cinematic takedown.
Granted melee options in Doom 1 and 2 were pretty shit unless you had a chainsaw or a berserk, but it still came down to player movement and positioning to succeed with those, the instakill chainsaw's gonna trivialize encounters with weaker monsters, and probably be unusable against the bigger ones.
I'm not against change, and I actually like the ammo pinata thing, and the health orbs spilling out of monsters to a point, but this most likely means medkits and ammo pickups will be rare in actual maps, meaning that ebb and flow of being near death or completely steam rolling won't be present like how it is in traditional doom gameplay.
I just don't like the impression the devs are giving me right now, which is pretty much "Let's just make Brutal Doom HD."
I'm not feeling very optimistic about MP either, given that loadout thing, I've heard that the rocket launcher is completely gimped too, doing minimal damage on direct hits. I mean sure in vanilla Doom 2 multiplayer it boiled down to super shotgun jousting, plasma spraying, and whoever can get the BFG if there's one present in a map, but I don't think trying to modernize the multiplayer in that way is a good way for it to make a lasting impression in this market.
[QUOTE=Hammer7;48304574]Should I remind you all the shitstorms when DNF came out and had same "awesome changes"?[/QUOTE]
People tend to forget that DNF was passed down through a shit ton of companies during the span of 12 years, and it ended up in the hands of Gearbox who didn't know what the fuck do even do with it because it was such a mess.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;48304016]I wish id the best of luck. They really do have to prove themselves because they are not the same team that made the original DOOM.[/QUOTE]
They shouldn't expect to make a carbon copy of the game and of the success it had long ago imo.
Neither should gamers expect a carbon copy of the original game, like so many people I've seen complaining about the smallest of things through nostalgia glasses.
[QUOTE=Ax3l;48304986]People tend to forget that DNF was passed down through a shit ton of companies during the span of 12 years, and it ended up in the hands of Gearbox who didn't know what the fuck do even do with it because it was such a mess.[/QUOTE]
DNF's biggest problem was the director kept halting all development when he saw something cool another big name FPS was doing at the time and wanted in DNF, plus the constant switching between engines didn't help things along at all.
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304081]Yeah they sure have been true to the doom series with the emphasis on cutscene-based melee kills, and a two weapon limit for the multiplayer :v:
Oh wait.[/QUOTE]
If you want everything to be the same, why don't you stay in the old games then?
[editline]27th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304933]I was waiting for someone to say something this. Look, I'm cynical about Doom 4 because they've got the wrong idea about Doom, it's not about "rip and tear, with gallons of blood" and just saying it's about shotguns and demons would be a disservice to it.
Doom's about clever level design and using monster infighting and map knowledge to your advantage. From what we've seen so far, ammo caps are low and there's a strong focus on those glory kill takedown things. Melee will most likely only be just that, a cinematic takedown.
Granted melee options in Doom 1 and 2 were pretty shit unless you had a chainsaw or a berserk, but it still came down to player movement and positioning to succeed with those, the instakill chainsaw's gonna trivialize encounters with weaker monsters, and probably be unusable against the bigger ones.
I'm not against change, and I actually like the ammo pinata thing, and the health orbs spilling out of monsters to a point, but this most likely means medkits and ammo pickups will be rare in actual maps, meaning that ebb and flow of being near death or completely steam rolling won't be present like how it is in traditional doom gameplay.
I just don't like the impression the devs are giving me right now, which is pretty much "Let's just make Brutal Doom HD."
I'm not feeling very optimistic about MP either, given that loadout thing, I've heard that the rocket launcher is completely gimped too, doing minimal damage on direct hits. I mean sure in vanilla Doom 2 multiplayer it boiled down to super shotgun jousting, plasma spraying, and whoever can get the BFG if there's one present in a map, but I don't think trying to modernize the multiplayer in that way is a good way for it to make a lasting impression in this market.[/QUOTE]
Giving Doom waaay too much credit
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304933]I was waiting for someone to say something this. Look, I'm cynical about Doom 4 because they've got the wrong idea about Doom, it's not about "rip and tear, with gallons of blood" and just saying it's about shotguns and demons would be a disservice to it.
Doom's about clever level design and using monster infighting and map knowledge to your advantage. From what we've seen so far, ammo caps are low and there's a strong focus on those glory kill takedown things. Melee will most likely only be just that, a cinematic takedown.
Granted melee options in Doom 1 and 2 were pretty shit unless you had a chainsaw or a berserk, but it still came down to player movement and positioning to succeed with those, the instakill chainsaw's gonna trivialize encounters with weaker monsters, and probably be unusable against the bigger ones.
I'm not against change, and I actually like the ammo pinata thing, and the health orbs spilling out of monsters to a point, but this most likely means medkits and ammo pickups will be rare in actual maps, meaning that ebb and flow of being near death or completely steam rolling won't be present like how it is in traditional doom gameplay.
I just don't like the impression the devs are giving me right now, which is pretty much "Let's just make Brutal Doom HD."
I'm not feeling very optimistic about MP either, given that loadout thing, I've heard that the rocket launcher is completely gimped too, doing minimal damage on direct hits. I mean sure in vanilla Doom 2 multiplayer it boiled down to super shotgun jousting, plasma spraying, and whoever can get the BFG if there's one present in a map, but I don't think trying to modernize the multiplayer in that way is a good way for it to make a lasting impression in this market.[/QUOTE]
if they were to just make a doom 2 multiplayer with modern visuals, that shit would die faster than titanfall. does anyone really want to pay $60 for a multiplayer experience that'll last a month? it seems pretty clear to me that they're trying to do something different, which absolutely could end up being a complete failure, but they're better off trying and failing at that than successfully making some kind of fan service game for a fanbase which has faded significantly.
[QUOTE=kweh;48305025]If you want everything to be the same, why don't you stay in the old games then?
[editline]27th July 2015[/editline]
[B]Giving Doom waaay too much credit[/B][/QUOTE]
I beg to differ, and I'm fine with change, I think some of the new monster designs and Doomguy's armor look great, the weapons look pretty cool, and I like the fact they got rid of the useless pistol, fuck that thing. I'm fine with streamlining the experience but if you're gonna call it Doom, you should probably at least keep some smart level design and monster infighting.
I'll admit the melee thing is something that bothers me on a personal level.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305062]if they were to just make a doom 2 multiplayer with modern visuals, that shit would die faster than titanfall. does anyone really want to pay $60 for a multiplayer experience that'll last a month? it seems pretty clear to me that they're trying to do something different, which absolutely could end up being a complete failure, but they're better off trying and failing at that than successfully making some kind of fan service game for a fanbase which has faded significantly.[/QUOTE]
Okay I'll admit the loadout thing also rubs me the wrong way on a personal level too. But I'm fairly optimistic about the co-op wave based thing, I just don't think deathmatch is gonna hold up very well.
[QUOTE=Kegan;48305073]Okay I'll admit the loadout thing also rubs me the wrong way on a personal level too. But I'm fairly optimistic about the co-op wave based thing, I just don't think deathmatch is gonna hold up very well.[/QUOTE]
I really strongly doubt they won't have a "classic" mode without loadouts. did you actually see the snapmap stuff they showed? that "wave based coop thing" was actually just an example they showed of what you can create with snapmap. if you can create a coop mode you can definitely create scenarios that incorporate the distinctive level design from the old doom games that you're saying will be absent.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305230]I really strongly doubt they won't have a "classic" mode without loadouts. did you actually see the snapmap stuff they showed? that "wave based coop thing" was actually just an example they showed of what you can create with snapmap. if you can create a coop mode you can definitely create scenarios that incorporate the distinctive level design from the old doom games that you're saying will be absent.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, I'll stop being a cynical shit about the multiplayer at least, I guess I got a bit kneejerky over the loadout thing. I also was reading about how there [B]is[/B] a melee attack in the form of a gun bash, so I'm fine, at least the melee attacks aren't 100% contextual.
If we get some footage of monster infighting I'll be fine with Doom 4 as it is then.
Biggest thing I'm not a fan of is the color palette.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/BnaHSS1.png[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/3waYoxf.png[/t]
I mean yeah the edited version is a bit too extreme but I also like things to have more than 3 shades of tan and grey with the occasional "muddy brown/red" colored blood
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48305261]Biggest thing I'm not a fan of is the color palette.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/BnaHSS1.png[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/3waYoxf.png[/t]
I mean yeah the edited version is a bit too extreme but I also like things to have more than 3 shades of tan and grey with the occasional "muddy brown/red" colored blood[/QUOTE]
it has a red heavy pallet because it's supposed to be hell.
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304933]I was waiting for someone to say something this. Look, I'm cynical about Doom 4 because they've got the wrong idea about Doom, it's not about "rip and tear, with gallons of blood" and just saying it's about shotguns and demons would be a disservice to it.
Doom's about clever level design and using monster infighting and map knowledge to your advantage. From what we've seen so far, ammo caps are low and there's a strong focus on those glory kill takedown things. Melee will most likely only be just that, a cinematic takedown.
Granted melee options in Doom 1 and 2 were pretty shit unless you had a chainsaw or a berserk, but it still came down to player movement and positioning to succeed with those, the instakill chainsaw's gonna trivialize encounters with weaker monsters, and probably be unusable against the bigger ones.
I'm not against change, and I actually like the ammo pinata thing, and the health orbs spilling out of monsters to a point, but this most likely means medkits and ammo pickups will be rare in actual maps, meaning that ebb and flow of being near death or completely steam rolling won't be present like how it is in traditional doom gameplay.
I just don't like the impression the devs are giving me right now, which is pretty much "Let's just make Brutal Doom HD."
I'm not feeling very optimistic about MP either, given that loadout thing, I've heard that the rocket launcher is completely gimped too, doing minimal damage on direct hits. I mean sure in vanilla Doom 2 multiplayer it boiled down to super shotgun jousting, plasma spraying, and whoever can get the BFG if there's one present in a map, but I don't think trying to modernize the multiplayer in that way is a good way for it to make a lasting impression in this market.[/QUOTE]
Another problem that I felt through the E3 presentation was that everything was so stupidly "badass". Like everything that happened in the demo just felt like the devs going "hey hey look at that wasn't that super badass?" and it's like yeah, kinda, but when EVERYTHING is badass, not to mention easy to do, then in the end nothing is badass. This isn't new-Doom specific either, though. A lot of devs are under the impression that people who play games are idiots who won't give you the time of day unless you're dangling something pretty in front of them ALL the damn time. It needs to be more like Max Payne 3: For every badass thing you did you mucked it up at least 3 times before, so when something awesome happened it actually felt awesome instead of "yay I pressed F when given the prompt."
[editline]27th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305301]it has a red heavy pallet because it's supposed to be hell.[/QUOTE]
More like sulfur, sulfur and more sulfur. I get why it's like that, but Doom was never like that. Besides it looks boring as fuck.
Why would anyone want to make a "contemporary FPS"? The formula has been done to death, Doom deserves better.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305301]it has a red heavy pallet because it's supposed to be hell.[/QUOTE]
I know it is, but I'd much prefer the red-heavy with clashing greens/blues/greys than just....bland shit like the top picture
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305301]it has a red heavy pallet because it's supposed to be hell.[/QUOTE]
Actually now that I think about it, the colour pallets shown here are actually some good examples of bad and good design.
Not even getting into the whole argument of how bland it is, but nothing really pops out, it's all so very muddled from your gun to the terrain and especially the enemies. The fan-made one, on the other hand has clashing colours, you see the enemies instantly and can very easily tell where they are and you can figure out the terrain better.
[QUOTE=Kazumi;48304698]DNF was a wreck from the start.[/QUOTE]
The 2001 version had promise
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48305321]I know it is, but I'd much prefer the red-heavy with clashing greens/blues/greys than just....bland shit like the top picture[/QUOTE]
[url]http://d1vnh8mbrp67em.cloudfront.net/news/image/7/8d/30337/index_New-Doom-Gameplay-e1434406144750.jpg[/url]
[url]https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3790690/doom-mancubus-screenshot_1920.0.jpg[/url]
[url]http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DOOM-4K-5.jpg[/url]
[QUOTE=Kegan;48304933]Doom's about clever level design and using monster infighting and map knowledge to your advantage. From what we've seen so far, ammo caps are low and there's a strong focus on those glory kill takedown things. Melee will most likely only be just that, a cinematic takedown.
Granted melee options in Doom 1 and 2 were pretty shit unless you had a chainsaw or a berserk, but it still came down to player movement and positioning to succeed with those, the instakill chainsaw's gonna trivialize encounters with weaker monsters, and probably be unusable against the bigger ones.[/QUOTE]
I've been saying it since the E3 gameplay demos came out, melee takedowns/chainsaw insta-kills would work [I]so well[/I] if they were directly tied to berserk packs. I don't want Doom's gore dialed up to 11 [I]all[/I] the time, overexposure will only make it boring. Ration it out and give it room to breathe, make it feel rewarding.
I'm totally open to changing/modernizing Doom's formula, but a level of faithfulness needs to be maintained. I just hope this doesn't try to overperform, and produce an experience that underdelivers.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305301]it has a red heavy pallet because it's supposed to be hell.[/QUOTE]
Honest question, are you red-green colorblind? The unedited image (and all the images you linked) are heavily orange/brown, not red.
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;48305403]
Honest question, are you red-green colorblind? The unedited image (and all the images you linked) are heavily orange/brown, not red.[/QUOTE]
no, I'm not. orange and brown are both technically reds. I assume you understand how RGB lighting and color models work so I don't have to explain that.
I'm quite looking forward to the new Doom, but I'm cautious about it. The gameplay still looked solid and like a lot of fun. Sometimes I feel like people argue way to much about Doom and how the very essence of the original game should be, from what I remember honestly everyone played it differently. Games change over time but as long as they have satisfying combat and good level design, I'm up for it. Also multiplayer would be neat.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48305386][url]http://d1vnh8mbrp67em.cloudfront.net/news/image/7/8d/30337/index_New-Doom-Gameplay-e1434406144750.jpg[/url]
[url]https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3790690/doom-mancubus-screenshot_1920.0.jpg[/url]
[url]http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DOOM-4K-5.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
In all those pictures the enemies are essentially the same color as the background with the only exception being small, glowing highlights of a contrasting color.
You don't have to make a game a rainbow to make npcs pop out of the background, half life 2 has pitch black soldiers on greys/browns and greens. Killing floor has pale, fleshy zombies on industrial greys, shit like that.
It's pretty simple design 101 to make your important stuff differentiable from the unimportant stuff. I really dunno how game companies continually stuff it up and make everything the same wishy washy palette.
The fact that people are even comparing this to Duke Nukem Forever shows how fucking jaded people are over old franchise revivals nowadays. I mean, the game doesn't seem all that Doom-y to me, more like the successor to Quake 2 or 4 with a double-jump and demons instead of Strogg (although the zombiemen getting replaced with demons with armcannons doesn't help the comparison), but it doesn't look [i]terrible[/i] by any means. Just kinda average.
And all the "THIS IS FAST" advertising and such really seems misplaced, the game seems about the same pace as Halo except lacking the need to hide for regeneration obviously, and with players being able to take more damage consequently.
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