• New program in Connecticut to give inmates free community college education
    62 replies, posted
[quote]Thursday, as students sign up for classes and get ready to go back to college, many inmates in Connecticut prisons are doing the same thing. The Second Chance Pell Grant pilot program allows inmates to take college courses and some will be bused onto the campus of at least one community college. Holly Hetzel just signed up for classes at Middlesex Community College. “It would depend on their crime or whatever, but I would rather not be sitting next to a scary person in my class. People are scary enough as it is, never mind inmates,” said Hetzel. There are four community colleges is participating in the program. Asnuntuck, Middlesex, Quinebaug, and Three Rivers community colleges. These schools were four of 67 schools selected nationwide by the White House to participate. The federal Pell Grant allows the inmates to take the college classes for free. Hetzel says it’s hard to believe criminals get a free college education while the general public has to pay for it. “That is a problem for me too, I don’t think it should be free. They should be treated like us, we have to pay, they have to pay,” said Hetzel. According to Asnuntuck’s website, “a total of 16 low-risk, near release students will on campus at ACC, with an additional 400 inmates participating solely at area correctional facilities. Many of the students are currently located at low security, reintegration facilities and a high percentage are veterans.” Of the four community college is participating in the program, not all of them are taking inmates and putting them into the classroom. As a matter of fact, at Middlesex Community College, they are taking the professors and bringing them to the prison to teach the inmates there. The Dean of Students, Adrienne Maslin, says it’s a good idea and can help an inmate turn their life around. “Because of their education, because they’ll be working hard, because they’ll be studying, it’s a rigorous program. There is a lot they are going to have to do, and a lot of studying,” said Maslin.[/quote] [url]http://wtnh.com/2016/08/25/new-pilot-program-allows-inmates-to-get-free-college-education/[/url]
[QUOTE]“That is a problem for me too, I don’t think it should be free. They should be treated like us, we have to pay, they have to pay,” said Hetzel. [/QUOTE] GG america. You convinced people that education should be paid for. On topic, I'm very happy these guys are getting this chance at reshaping their life.
So basically we should encourage high school students to commit minor crimes to get a free college education?
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;50954898]GG america. You convinced people that education should be paid for. On topic, I'm very happy these guys are getting this chance at reshaping their life.[/QUOTE]Who else is going to pay for it? We already pay for public school through taxes.
[QUOTE=Oizen;50954908]So basically we should encourage high school students to commit minor crimes to get a free college education?[/QUOTE] Community college, and no that's a terrible idea who would do that?
I think they should be taught more vocational skills rather then college courses. Building trades, hospitality services, transportation technology, etc. I dunno, as long as we still have our loan based system and people have to pay for it I'm going to be against.
[QUOTE=Oizen;50954908]So basically we should encourage high school students to commit minor crimes to get a free college education?[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me?
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50954943]I think they should be taught more vocational skills rather then college courses. Building trades, hospitality services, transportation technology, etc. I dunno, as long as we still have our loan based system and people have to pay for it I'm going to be against.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree that I'd rather have it become free for others first but you've gotta start somewhere. If this angle can get the ball rolling then I'm for it.
[QUOTE=Oizen;50954908]So basically we should encourage high school students to commit minor crimes to get a free college education?[/QUOTE] Yes, apparently. It's either that or I have to do community service and take this class called "Academic Strategies" to get a free community college education and even then it's only up to 3 years or a certain amount of credit hours. Crime takes less effort :v: [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=MR-X;50954944]Are you kidding me?[/QUOTE] It's sarcasm.
This is a good move towards a rehabilitative justice system, rather than a retributive one. If this will have an effect on recidivism, it might end up cheaper for the state. I don't really understand how Pell Grant funding works, but I hope it doesn't negatively impact non-criminals trying to go to school. Also, i'd prefer the teachers go to the prisons to teach, instead of the inmates going to the colleges like some of the plans, but I understand the prisons don't have the proper facilities and they are probably well vetted/nonviolent offenders. Anyway, cool.
something about that quote bugs me [QUOTE]“It would depend on their crime or whatever, but I would rather not be sitting next to a scary person in my class. People are scary enough as it is, never mind inmates,” said Hetzel.[/QUOTE] It's like in her mind by definition a criminal can only be an out and out psychopath who bathes in the blood of children and sympathies with the torturer in game of thrones. As if there's no such thing as financial crime, civil disobedience, or petty non violent crime, or if somehow that wasn't the case, a politician up for relection would say "well, we need to rehabilitate criminals, let's put a serial murderer in a collage classroom so i can brag to the papers." God that's pretentious Seriously though, presuming the screening is good, this sounds like a great idea. you need to lift those people up somehow, teach a man to fish and all that
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;50955023]something about that quote bugs me It's like in her mind by definition a criminal can only be an out and out psychopath who bathes in the blood of children and sympathies with the torturer in game of thrones. As if there's no such thing as financial crime, civil disobedience, or petty non violent crime, or if somehow that wasn't the case, a politician up for relection would say "well, we need to rehabilitate criminals, let's put a serial murderer in a collage classroom so i can brag to the papers." God that's pretentious Seriously though, presuming the screening is good, this sounds like a great idea. you need to lift those people up somehow, teach a man to fish and all that[/QUOTE] I'm more interested in the "People are scary enough as it is" quip. What happened to this person to make them think like that?
Neat, Three Rivers is like 20 minutes from me. This is fantastic to hear tbh because we need an overhaul of the criminal justice system in this nation, and helping prisoners reintegrate into society better by letting them get a degree which will then help them obtain a job once out of prison is only a good thing!
[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;50955021]This is a good move towards a rehabilitative justice system, rather than a retributive one. If this will have an effect on recidivism, it might end up cheaper for the state. I don't really understand how Pell Grant funding works, but I hope it doesn't negatively impact non-criminals trying to go to school. Also, i'd prefer the teachers go to the prisons to teach, instead of the inmates going to the colleges like some of the plans, but I understand the prisons don't have the proper facilities and they are probably well vetted/nonviolent offenders. Anyway, cool.[/QUOTE] Education has the greatest effect on recidivism. This will save them obscene amounts of money in the long run. Not only will it save them money, but it will do so by increasing the quality of life of the portion of the population that needs it most. Gotta love a win win.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50955039]I'm more interested in the "People are scary enough as it is" quip. What happened to this person to make them think like that?[/QUOTE] just sounds like someone who's never set foot in the real world once in their life. I really have no idea why this person was interviewed, or why they rolled with it
[QUOTE=GunFox;50955168]Education has the greatest effect on recidivism. This will save them obscene amounts of money in the long run. Not only will it save them money, but it will do so by increasing the quality of life of the portion of the population that needs it most. Gotta love a win win.[/QUOTE] I understand why they are funding this and I agree that education prevents crime. However, it is extremely frustrating that the students who follow a straight path still get fucked up the ass with tuition. Even at a community college yearly tuition is $5000, and even though it is cheaper to go there, high achieving students are always pushed to go to a traditional university. I don't want government programs or moneys, but seeing others get stuff for free because society is better off giving it to them makes me wonder what's the point of working hard? I'm gonna graduate 100k+ in debt and my only way to pay it off in school is through summer internships because I'm a decent but not brilliant student in my field. Meanwhile I have classmates who are given full rides not because of their grades, but because they come from low income areas and get a lot of financial aid, or their parents are wealthy enough to pay for everything. I work hard to pass my classes which I am paying for, but it becomes really disheartening when I'm still burdened with this debt and there's minimal recognition. /rant
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50955475]makes me wonder what's the point of working hard?[/QUOTE] well for one, you're not in prison
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50955532]well for one, you're not in prison[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I was thinking. This argument that "inmates are getting free education" is flawed: it's not free. They're paying for it by [b]being in fucking prison.[/b] They are, quite literally, buying their education with their freedom. Or, I guess a more intuitive way to put it is, they don't get this "free" education while having their freedom: they [b]have[/b] to be in prison to get this particular "free" education. So I mean, sure, if you want to commit a crime and go to prison to skimp out on paying tuition, then go ahead - just don't forget the fact that you'll be in fucking [B]prison[/B].
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50955475]what's the point of working hard?[/QUOTE] just because one system sucks doesn't mean you can't improve others
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;50955599]That's exactly what I was thinking. This argument that "inmates are getting free education" is flawed: it's not free. They're paying for it by [b]being in fucking prison.[/b] They are buying their education with their freedom.[/QUOTE] well.. technically the taxpayers are the ones LITERALLY paying for it, since pell grants are funded by taxes
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;50954898]GG america. You convinced people that education should be paid for.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure we "convinced" people that it should be the way that it's been throughout most of human history.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50955612]well.. technically the taxpayers are the ones LITERALLY paying for it, since pell grants are funded by taxes[/QUOTE] While technically true, I think it's a bit misleading to drive down that deep. Pell Grants are given to more than just inmates participating in this project - they are a common piece of financial aid for low-income students. In fact, [url=https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell]the Pell Grant, in general, explicitly excludes inmates[/url]. If you're going to argue from that equivalence, then you're arguing a slightly different case: you're equating inmates to low-income students, and then, if you were to argue against it, you'd be arguing that low-income students don't deserve the grants, either.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;50955632]While technically true, I think it's a bit misleading to drive down that deep. Pell Grants are given to more than just inmates participating in this project - they are a common piece of financial aid for low-income students. In fact, [url=https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell]the Pell Grant, in general, explicitly excludes inmates[/url]. If you're going to argue from that equivalence, then you're arguing a slightly different case: you're equating inmates to low-income students, and then, if you were to argue against it, you'd be arguing that low-income students don't deserve the grants, either.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing against pell grants in general because I was actually a beneficiary of them lol However, I can understand why normal students who don't receive financial aid would be frustrated seeing criminals having preferential treatment in regards to education. Although it's more economical in the long run you can't help but feel like it's unfair in a way.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50955667]I'm not arguing against pell grants in general because I was actually a beneficiary of them lol However, I can understand why normal students who don't receive financial aid would be frustrated seeing criminals having preferential treatment in regards to education. Although it's more economical in the long run you can't help but feel like it's unfair in a way.[/QUOTE] Sure, but the same can be applied to pretty much any such grant, and unlike this program, they have a far weaker justification to their existence. Take, for example, grants that are exclusive to minorities. I'm sure you can agree that there are students who aren't eligible for such grants who get frustrated because others get to pay less for college for no reason other than being black, or Asian, or some other minority. And those grants aren't even being directly "bought" - there is no immediately "cost" involved in being a minority. Instead, it's a compensation for social and economic injustices - things like the fact that blacks are statistically lower-income and stay lower-income than their white compatriots, and are discriminated against financially more often. At least with this program, there is an immediate trade: their freedom for education, since they have to be in prison to use this program. I understand where you're going with the argument, but I would argue it's not really a fair argument to bring up, because of these long-reaching ramifications.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50955667]I'm not arguing against pell grants in general because I was actually a beneficiary of them lol However, I can understand why normal students who don't receive financial aid would be frustrated seeing criminals having preferential treatment in regards to education. Although it's more economical in the long run you can't help but feel like it's unfair in a way.[/QUOTE] i feel like "in a way" refers to the only possible way of looking at this under an 'unfair' light, which is by ignoring what has already been said countless times and will be said countless more: they're in prison
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;50955599]That's exactly what I was thinking. This argument that "inmates are getting free education" is flawed: it's not free. They're paying for it by [b]being in fucking prison.[/b] They are, quite literally, buying their education with their freedom. Or, I guess a more intuitive way to put it is, they don't get this "free" education while having their freedom: they [b]have[/b] to be in prison to get this particular "free" education. So I mean, sure, if you want to commit a crime and go to prison to skimp out on paying tuition, then go ahead - just don't forget the fact that you'll be in fucking [B]prison[/B].[/QUOTE] That's fair, I just think it's a little ridiculous that there are people out there working hard, trying to pay their bills and get an education by staying on the straight and narrow, but reformed convicts are getting passed through. I understand the reasoning behind the program and overall it's a net positive so I support it, but at the same time you have to understand the frustration that comes when people are out in the world struggling to do well and literal prisoners are getting better benefits than you are.
I was unable to receive anything from Pell Grant despite my family being barely able to pay bills. I was unable to receive any state scholarships because my counselor failed to do her job and decided to put me in the wrong classes (My ACT score surpassed the valedictorians). My high school actually boosted any grades below a 60 to a 60 to prevent their "school rating" from being an F. So needless to say this program agitates me.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;50955599]That's exactly what I was thinking. This argument that "inmates are getting free education" is flawed: it's not free. They're paying for it by [b]being in fucking prison.[/b] They are, quite literally, buying their education with their freedom. Or, I guess a more intuitive way to put it is, they don't get this "free" education while having their freedom: they [b]have[/b] to be in prison to get this particular "free" education. So I mean, sure, if you want to commit a crime and go to prison to skimp out on paying tuition, then go ahead - just don't forget the fact that you'll be in fucking [B]prison[/B].[/QUOTE] They're in prison because they committed a crime, not to get free education. They're not paying for college by being in prison; they'd be in prison regardless. They're being given a benefit for committing a crime as opposed to students who pay out the ass for education because they [I]didn't [/I]commit a crime. It's hardly a stretch to see why some students would feel like they're getting the short end of the stick. Not that I'm against it, but it really is unfair. I think it'd make more sense to teach them a marketable trade skill (plumber, electrician, etc - stuff that generally doesn't require a degree) from within the prison instead.
[QUOTE=srobins;50956140]That's fair, I just think it's a little ridiculous that there are people out there working hard, trying to pay their bills and get an education by staying on the straight and narrow, but reformed convicts are getting passed through. I understand the reasoning behind the program and overall it's a net positive so I support it, but at the same time you have to understand the frustration that comes when people are out in the world struggling to do well and literal prisoners are getting better benefits than you are.[/QUOTE] It's easy to see them as getting better benefits than you when you take other benefits for granted. Decent home, family, a living, a social life, probably no drastic mental health issues, good employment record - these are things that I imagine most convicts don't have but most low-income students do. If you take a step back and assess how well your life is going, even if it's not great, you're probably in a better position than someone who's had to resort to crimes to survive.
That's hilarious, I'm now better off committing a crime just so I get free college, nice job America. This should be something that is granted to everyone, not just criminals.
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