• Nebraska abolishes death penalty
    57 replies, posted
[url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32910693[/url] [quote]The US state of Nebraska has abolished the death penalty after a veto-override was passed through the its legislature. The measure was backed by a coalition of conservatives who oppose execution as a form of punishment. Nebraska joins 18 other states and the federal district of Washington, DC, in banning capital punishment, and is the first traditionally conservative state in four decades to do so. The state has not executed an inmate since a 1997 electrocution. The unicameral legislature passed the measure 30 to 19 - the exact number of votes needed to override Governor Pete Ricketts earlier veto.[/quote]
so glad this happened. I really don't understand the support for the death penalty, you'd think life in prison would be a worse punishment
[QUOTE=ze spy;47820797]so glad this happened. I really don't understand the support for the death penalty, you'd think life in prison would be a worse punishment[/QUOTE] Facepunch is oddly reactionary in a lot of places.
[QUOTE=ze spy;47820797]so glad this happened. I really don't understand the support for the death penalty, you'd think life in prison would be a worse punishment[/QUOTE] In some cases I can support it, but in the end, the financial costs between life in prison and those on death row end up being the same. Death row is a huge bureaucracy. When you have that kind of money dumped per execution, it's become a huge money pit that's not even worth it as a common argument for it is that you're no longer housing murderers.
Death penalty is shit, I'm glad more and more places are realising how terrible it is and abolishing it.
[QUOTE=ze spy;47820797]so glad this happened. I really don't understand the support for the death penalty, you'd think life in prison would be a worse punishment[/QUOTE] If you're against the death penalty because life in prison is "worse", then you really don't get the point of why execution is bad.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47821274]If you're against the death penalty because life in prison is "worse", then you really don't get the point of why execution is bad.[/QUOTE] What makes execution that bad? The only two reasons I can think of are the awful methods and that our justice system is highly fallible. Just for reference, I'm not for or against the death penalty. The issue has never hit close to home with me so I'm curious to see some reasoning.
[QUOTE=TreasoN.avi;47821333]What makes execution that bad? The only two reasons I can think of are the awful methods and that our justice system is highly fallible. Just for reference, I'm not for or against the death penalty. The issue has never hit close to home with me so I'm curious to see some reasoning.[/QUOTE] I for one prefer the idea of rehabilitation over destruction/isolation. But you know, this entire debate can easily last for tens of pages.
revenge does not equal justice
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47821274]If you're against the death penalty because life in prison is "worse", then you really don't get the point of why execution is bad.[/QUOTE] I'm not though, I'm against it because it's just not fucking worth it. people who are already in prison and are no longer a threat to anyone shouldn't be killed. i just think the argument for execution being the "worst" punishment is kinda flawed
[QUOTE=paul simon;47821369]I for one prefer the idea of rehabilitation over destruction/isolation. But you know, this entire debate can easily last for tens of pages.[/QUOTE] The whole point of the death penalty is that the person going through it is beyond rehabilitation, and can only be a detriment to society. Having said that, death row is filled with innocent people, the death penalty costs just as much/more than life in prison, and there's no opportunity to appeal your charges if you're killed, so I'm against the death penalty.
[QUOTE=paul simon;47821369]I for one prefer the idea of rehabilitation over destruction/isolation. But you know, this entire debate can easily last for tens of pages.[/QUOTE] Execution is usually used against really fucking crazy people, like, the drown 20 kids in a car and sell their parts inside used mufflers kind of crazy. Usually the work needed to make those people normal again, if at all possible, seems much harder to people than just killing them.
Good! hopefully this will spread
Having heard and read all the arguments against capital punishment over the years, I have changed sides a few times. I have pretty much concluded at this point that the thought of someone potentially innocent being killed because of our undeniably flawed court system is the only reason you need to not support capital punishment. Honestly imagine being punished to death for something you were wrongly accused of. That alone should really impact your decision on this argument more than the money it costs to execute people, or the possibility of rehabilitation. Even though the people being executed have done some horrible things, executing someone who is [I]innocent[/I] should stand out so much more than the latter. Innocent people being executed is a real thing that actually happens, and it should take priority over all of the other contentions.
[QUOTE=DJrorok;47822459]Execution is usually used against really fucking crazy people, like, the drown 20 kids in a car and sell their parts inside used mufflers kind of crazy. Usually the work needed to make those people normal again, if at all possible, seems much harder to people than just killing them.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean you have to kill them though. I don't understand why people always seem to think that rehabilitation means that you just do your best to treat every single criminal and eventually release them willy nilly, when in fact it's all just about treating prisoners like humans, helping to rehabilitate them wherever possible, and only ever releasing them when you can be absolutely sure they won't pose a threat to society. Of course there are people who can never be rehabilitated, but just because they can't doesn't mean we should just kill them, when imprisonment is all that needs to be done to keep this dangerous person separated from society. Killing them is just an unnecessary extra step that solves nothing.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;47822555]That doesn't mean you have to kill them though. I don't understand why people always seem to think that rehabilitation means that you just do your best to treat every single criminal and eventually release them willy nilly, when in fact it's all just about treating prisoners like humans, helping to rehabilitate them wherever possible, and only ever releasing them when you can be absolutely sure they won't pose a threat to society. Of course there are people who can never be rehabilitated, but just because they can't doesn't mean we should just kill them, when imprisonment is all that needs to be done to keep this dangerous person separated from society. Killing them is just an unnecessary extra step that solves nothing.[/QUOTE] basically this. anything other than this is just revenge
Is it more costly to execute a man or to keep him in prison for life? This is the only piece of info I need before I can form a complete opinion.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;47824464]Is it more costly to execute a man or to keep him in prison for life? This is the only piece of info I need before I can form a complete opinion.[/QUOTE] This focus on money is so bizarre and immoral that I don't really know if people are serious when they mention it. Why should cost be a determinant in whether or not someone lives or dies? Are we really going to make and compare spreadsheets to see if a human being is "worth" keeping alive? It's like a dystopian sci-fi story.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47824623]This focus on money is so bizarre and immoral that I don't really know if people are serious when they mention it. Why should cost be a determinant in whether or not someone lives or dies? Are we really going to make and compare spreadsheets to see if a human being is "worth" keeping alive? It's like a dystopian sci-fi story.[/QUOTE] "All life is invaluable regardless of anything ever"
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;47824730]"All life is invaluable regardless of anything ever"[/QUOTE] Actually yes, the fact that some people are dangerous is what prisons are for
Sorry if I asked a simple question
[QUOTE=Explosions;47824623]This focus on money is so bizarre and immoral that I don't really know if people are serious when they mention it. Why should cost be a determinant in whether or not someone lives or dies? Are we really going to make and compare spreadsheets to see if a human being is "worth" keeping alive? It's like a dystopian sci-fi story.[/QUOTE] I wont even go into discussing death penalty. But if you have to spend 100-300 million dollars to do it, I think solving the issues with bureaucracy and laws that lead to such mess should also be a top priority. Obviously someone is using the situation to make some extra money here.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;47825098]Sorry if I asked a simple question[/QUOTE] It's not the question, it's the fact that it's "all you needed to know". Which he actually said, so stop trying to play the victim
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;47825109]It's not the question, it's the fact that it's "all you needed to know". Which he actually said, so stop trying to play the victim[/QUOTE] Then the fault's on me for wording it wrong I didn't mean that money has to decide whether he gets to life or die, I just want to know the numbers so that it can swing the balance either towards pro or anti death penalty I have a number of reasons to be anti and a number to be pro. I do not know how much it costs to keep people alive vs execute them. It was only meant to be another reason to be anti/pro.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;47825137]Then the fault's on me for wording it wrong I didn't mean that money has to decide whether he gets to life or die, I just want to know the numbers so that it can swing the balance either towards pro or anti death penalty I have a number of reasons to be anti and a number to be pro. I do not know how much it costs to keep people alive vs execute them. It was only meant to be another reason to be anti/pro.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty]It costs more to execute them.[/url]
The death penalty should be used in my opinion, just at the correct times. An example of my thinking is if someone commits manslaughter they should not be executed, but if they commit first degree murder , Serial killings Etc. they should be executed. My understanding is that the death penalty not only acts as an ultimate punishment but tells the population "Hey, you do this and this will happen to you". I mean it does cost money but it isn't like that money wasn't going to be wasted anyway.
[QUOTE=Ceil;47826801]The death penalty should be used in my opinion, just at the correct times. An example of my thinking is if someone commits manslaughter they should not be executed, but if they commit first degree murder , Serial killings Etc. they should be executed. My understanding is that the death penalty not only acts as an ultimate punishment but tells the population "Hey, you do this and this will happen to you". I mean it does cost money but it isn't like that money wasn't going to be wasted anyway.[/QUOTE] Well... That doesn't really help though, or fix the problem
[QUOTE=Ceil;47826801]The death penalty should be used in my opinion, just at the correct times. An example of my thinking is if someone commits manslaughter they should not be executed, but if they commit first degree murder , Serial killings Etc. they should be executed. My understanding is that the death penalty not only acts as an ultimate punishment but tells the population "Hey, you do this and this will happen to you". I mean it does cost money but it isn't like that money wasn't going to be wasted anyway.[/QUOTE] 1. This deterrent theory demonstrably does not work 2. You're implying that either people can never change their attitude or mindset (be "rehabilitated") or that some crimes are "ultimate" and deserve more punishment for an unstated reason
And doesn't address the circumstances that initiate those crimes
Nice too see another state giving up their past history of murder. [editline]28th May 2015[/editline] How can people defend one type of murder but punish another? Kind of hypocritical imo.
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