[RELEASE]WHEN wondering about the origins of our brain, don't look to Homo sapiens, chimpanzees, fish or even worms. Many key components first appeared in single-celled organisms, long before animals, brains and even nerve cells existed.
Dirk Fasshauer of the University of Lausanne, Switzerland, and colleagues were studying a pair of essential neural proteins called Munc18/syntaxin1 when they decided to look for them in very simple, single-celled organisms.
Choanoflagellates are aquatic organisms found in oceans and rivers around the globe. Being a single cell, they do not have nerves, yet the team found both proteins in the choanoflagellate Monosiga brevicollis, and the interaction between the two was the same as in neurons (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1106189108). These proteins are found in every nerve cell and control the release of the chemicals which neurons use to talk to each other, called neurotransmitters.
The finding is intriguing on its own, but much more significant when combined with a growing body of evidence that essential brain components evolved in choanoflagellates before multicellular life appeared.
In 2008, Xinjiang Cai of Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, discovered that M. brevicollis has the same calcium channels in its cells as those used by neurons (Molecular Biology and Evolution, DOI: 10.1093/molbev/msn077). Then, in 2010, it emerged that M. brevicollis also has several proteins that neurons use to process signals from their neighbours (BMC Evolutionary Biology, DOI: 10.1186/1471-2148-10-34).
And this year, Harold Zakon of the University of Texas at Austin and colleagues discovered that M. brevicollis has the same sodium channels that neurons use to pass electrical signals along their length (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1106363108).
Put together, these findings suggest that choanoflagellate cells have components for each of the three main functions of neurons: carrying electrical signals along their bodies, signalling to their neighbours with neurotransmitters, and receiving those signals.
Choanoflagellates are our closest single-celled relatives and, because they sometimes come together into colonies, are on the boundary between single-celled and multicellular animals. Some evolutionary biologists believe the first multicellular animal may have been an ancient choanoflagellate colony that stuck together permanently. If that's true, modern choanoflagellates give us a glimpse of how multicellular animals began.
"The choanoflagellates have a lot of precursors for things we thought were only present in animals," says Fasshauer. Today, says Zakon, the nervous system seems "unbelievably complex", but evidence from these tiny organisms suggests it was built up from several simple systems, which evolved separately for different reasons. For instance, Fasshauer suspects M. brevicollis uses Munc18/syntaxin1 to secrete chemicals, much like neurons use it to release neurotransmitters.
Not all of the components required for neurons to work were necessarily present in the ancestors of choanoflagellates, Zakon adds. For example, there is no evidence that they can make neurotransmitters, or that they wire up into networks as neurons do. "The brain is a lot more than a bunch of choanoflagellates," he says.[/RELEASE]
Source: [url]http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128283.800-your-brain-chemistry-existed-before-animals-did.html[/url]
science is so fucking cool
directed by m night shyamalan
[QUOTE=MenteR;32082540]directed by m night shyamalan[/QUOTE]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10323530/2cdz5aq.jpg[/img]
And this is why I love science, real tangible answers instead of "God did it"
Don't think about it don't think about it don't think about it...
AAAGH! It sounds so weird!
[QUOTE=chrishind10;32082745]And this is why I love science, real tangible answers instead of "God did it"[/QUOTE]
How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
see that's the type of thought that will lead man kind no where.
Just as we get some answers, someone always asks more questions and if they have no quick answer the default position is God.
Blessed be ignorance
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
You're running on the assumption that souls actually exist. And there's already plenty of proof that our mind and consciousness exist solely in the physical world.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7jSFeVz1U[/media]
Interesting discovery.
[editline]2nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
The same way the computer you're typing on right now works. Just more squishy and biological.
So systems like brain chemistry existed long before animals? That sounds sooooo cooool.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
The mind is just a specific configuration of neurons in your brain which induce chatacteristics that you have, personality, memory, it's all there in some way or another, why do you think people who have strokes sometimes lose part of themselves? There just is no such thing as the soul, once your brain breaks down your mind ceases to exist entirely.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]Okay let's let your God and bible explain all of it oh wait it doesn't make sense
this makes the transition from single celled organisms to multicellular ones seem a lot more natural to me actually
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
This pretty much sums up why i think that religion as a whole is one of the greatest tragedies to ever grace mankind
This is a thread about Brain Chemistry
Facepunch turns it into a religion thread, brav-fucking-o. To actually contribute, how can they communicate via neurons? Or did I misread that.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
worms, shduhh
[QUOTE=Zambies!;32087611]This is a thread about Brain Chemistry
Facepunch turns it into a religion thread, brav-fucking-o. To actually contribute, how can they communicate via neurons? Or did I misread that.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean communicate via neurotransmitters?
[QUOTE=chrishind10;32083271]The mind is just a specific configuration of neurons in your brain which induce chatacteristics that you have, personality, memory, it's all there in some way or another, why do you think people who have strokes sometimes lose part of themselves? There just is no such thing as the soul, once your brain breaks down your mind ceases to exist entirely.[/QUOTE]
While you are completely right on one level, what makes me disagree with you is the fact that as science on human consciousness progresses, the more questions we end up with. Tests have been done that show one human brain can have an intimate connection with another, sharing specific thoughts or emotions over vast distances. And even a collective mood or feeling can be shared among people if they're gathered in a close proximity (such as a neighborhood).
Also another important thing to consider are Near-Death-Experiences, for example, there are multiple reports of people in car accidents, where one person in the accident lives, and the other dies. The person that ends up living recalls talking to the other person and knowing they were dead as a result of the crash from a broken neck (or whatever it may have been), all without actually anybody even telling them anything about it.
Another thing, children in some countries, more so in the east than in the west (as they learn to talk) start having nightmares, and start to know things they claim are from "past lives". I've seen a few documentaries and have read some books on this, and it's really quite strange. It's not really "reincarnation" as it is some kind of "memory transfer". It usually happens when a violent death occurs (there were a lot of these cases in WW2 and Vietnam era), where a child can know the names of the soldiers he was in command with, and know how they all died, without ever even knowing the existence of this other person who's memories exist in their head.
My point is that we know [b]other dimensions exist in our reality[/b]. So while I still believe monotheism and all religion on the face of the earth is medieval and archaic, from a scientific standpoint it's not impossible that our consciousness exists in another dimension we're not aware of. So if human emotions and thoughts can be shared by people, or people in NDE's can know things they couldn't have possibly known otherwise, memories can be transferred after death, my feeling is that we're connected on a deeper level than science currently understands, and that goes for all human beings.
So for your example about people that have strokes, since your mind is so fundamental in having a healthy perception on reality, damaging it can impair that perception. Your brain can be seen as a "vessel" for your deeper level of consciousness (or your "soul" if you even wanna call it that) that everyone possesses.
My favorite part of evolution is seeing these little links that lead up to where species are today. Dandelions still have flowers but spread through fertilization, snakes and whales still have bones where their legs once were, humans' tailbones are just tails' vertebrae fused together into one bone, and now this.
This just makes me want to learn more.
I wonder how many people go "Fuck yeah science" without actually reading the article/understanding any of it.
It just seems so weird that like 10 people go "science fuck yeah" in a row.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;32088334]My point is that we know [b]other dimensions exist in our reality[/b]. So while I still believe monotheism and all religion on the face of the earth is medieval and archaic, from a scientific standpoint it's not impossible that our consciousness exists in another dimension we're not aware of. So if human emotions and thoughts can be shared by people, or people in NDE's can know things they couldn't have possibly known otherwise, memories can be transferred after death, my feeling is that we're connected on a deeper level than science currently understands, and that goes for all human beings. [/QUOTE]
Sources please!
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;32088334]While you are completely right on one level, what makes me disagree with you is the fact that as science on human consciousness progresses, the more questions we end up with. Tests have been done that show one human brain can have an intimate connection with another, sharing specific thoughts or emotions over vast distances. And even a collective mood or feeling can be shared among people if they're gathered in a close proximity (such as a neighborhood).
Also another important thing to consider are Near-Death-Experiences, for example, there are multiple reports of people in car accidents, where one person in the accident lives, and the other dies. The person that ends up living recalls talking to the other person and knowing they were dead as a result of the crash from a broken neck (or whatever it may have been), all without actually anybody even telling them anything about it.
Another thing, children in some countries, more so in the east than in the west (as they learn to talk) start having nightmares, and start to know things they claim are from "past lives". I've seen a few documentaries and have read some books on this, and it's really quite strange. It's not really "reincarnation" as it is some kind of "memory transfer". It usually happens when a violent death occurs (there were a lot of these cases in WW2 and Vietnam era), where a child can know the names of the soldiers he was in command with, and know how they all died, without ever even knowing the existence of this other person who's memories exist in their head.
My point is that we know [b]other dimensions exist in our reality[/b]. So while I still believe monotheism and all religion on the face of the earth is medieval and archaic, from a scientific standpoint it's not impossible that our consciousness exists in another dimension we're not aware of. So if human emotions and thoughts can be shared by people, or people in NDE's can know things they couldn't have possibly known otherwise, memories can be transferred after death, my feeling is that we're connected on a deeper level than science currently understands, and that goes for all human beings.
So for your example about people that have strokes, since your mind is so fundamental in having a healthy perception on reality, damaging it can impair that perception. Your brain can be seen as a "vessel" for your deeper level of consciousness (or your "soul" if you even wanna call it that) that everyone possesses.[/QUOTE]
I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but how much of that "science" is reputable?
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;32088334]While you are completely right on one level, what makes me disagree with you is the fact that as science on human consciousness progresses, the more questions we end up with. Tests have been done that show one human brain can have an intimate connection with another, sharing specific thoughts or emotions over vast distances. And even a collective mood or feeling can be shared among people if they're gathered in a close proximity (such as a neighborhood).
Also another important thing to consider are Near-Death-Experiences, for example, there are multiple reports of people in car accidents, where one person in the accident lives, and the other dies. The person that ends up living recalls talking to the other person and knowing they were dead as a result of the crash from a broken neck (or whatever it may have been), all without actually anybody even telling them anything about it.
Another thing, children in some countries, more so in the east than in the west (as they learn to talk) start having nightmares, and start to know things they claim are from "past lives". I've seen a few documentaries and have read some books on this, and it's really quite strange. It's not really "reincarnation" as it is some kind of "memory transfer". It usually happens when a violent death occurs (there were a lot of these cases in WW2 and Vietnam era), where a child can know the names of the soldiers he was in command with, and know how they all died, without ever even knowing the existence of this other person who's memories exist in their head.
My point is that we know [B]other dimensions exist in our reality[/B]. So while I still believe monotheism and all religion on the face of the earth is medieval and archaic, from a scientific standpoint it's not impossible that our consciousness exists in another dimension we're not aware of. So if human emotions and thoughts can be shared by people, or people in NDE's can know things they couldn't have possibly known otherwise, memories can be transferred after death, my feeling is that we're connected on a deeper level than science currently understands, and that goes for all human beings.
So for your example about people that have strokes, since your mind is so fundamental in having a healthy perception on reality, damaging it can impair that perception. Your brain can be seen as a "vessel" for your deeper level of consciousness (or your "soul" if you even wanna call it that) that everyone possesses.[/QUOTE]
Unscientific, undocumented, pseudo-science. All of it written by people with no relevant scientific degree, or no credibility within the scientific community.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;32088334]While you are completely right on one level, what makes me disagree with you is the fact that as science on human consciousness progresses, the more questions we end up with. Tests have been done that show one human brain can have an intimate connection with another, sharing specific thoughts or emotions over vast distances. And even a collective mood or feeling can be shared among people if they're gathered in a close proximity (such as a neighborhood).
Also another important thing to consider are Near-Death-Experiences, for example, there are multiple reports of people in car accidents, where one person in the accident lives, and the other dies. The person that ends up living recalls talking to the other person and knowing they were dead as a result of the crash from a broken neck (or whatever it may have been), all without actually anybody even telling them anything about it.
Another thing, children in some countries, more so in the east than in the west (as they learn to talk) start having nightmares, and start to know things they claim are from "past lives". I've seen a few documentaries and have read some books on this, and it's really quite strange. It's not really "reincarnation" as it is some kind of "memory transfer". It usually happens when a violent death occurs (there were a lot of these cases in WW2 and Vietnam era), where a child can know the names of the soldiers he was in command with, and know how they all died, without ever even knowing the existence of this other person who's memories exist in their head.
My point is that we know [b]other dimensions exist in our reality[/b]. So while I still believe monotheism and all religion on the face of the earth is medieval and archaic, from a scientific standpoint it's not impossible that our consciousness exists in another dimension we're not aware of. So if human emotions and thoughts can be shared by people, or people in NDE's can know things they couldn't have possibly known otherwise, memories can be transferred after death, my feeling is that we're connected on a deeper level than science currently understands, and that goes for all human beings.
So for your example about people that have strokes, since your mind is so fundamental in having a healthy perception on reality, damaging it can impair that perception. Your brain can be seen as a "vessel" for your deeper level of consciousness (or your "soul" if you even wanna call it that) that everyone possesses.[/QUOTE]I don't think you even know what a dimension is.
Hey guys, let's all use the straw-man on deathstarboot! And hey, while you're at it throw a bunch of big, fancy scientific sounding words in there to make your response sound more valid, but in reality it's just word salad...
I don't know why it's so hard to admit that science cannot explain everything. It's a bit scientifically irresponsible to deny things you don't like, and plus it sounds a little similar to something like the inquisition.
You know it doesn't mean DICK where our brain chemistry came from.
I mean obviously it developed and was put together over a long period of time!
And it's not like someone's gonna take away our brain chemistry that we use to question all of this shit!
[QUOTE=truebluesniper;32089830]Hey guys, let's all use the straw-man on deathstarboot! And hey, while you're at it throw a bunch of big, fancy scientific sounding words in there to make your response sound more valid, but in reality it's just word salad...
I don't know why it's so hard to admit that science cannot explain everything. It's a bit scientifically irresponsible to deny things you don't like, and plus it sounds a little similar to something like the inquisition.[/QUOTE]
There is nothing wrong with healthy scepticism.
I dislike the idea that something can't be explained by science because frankly, it sounds defeatist. It's not that I don't like the idea that something of [i]us[/i] might persist after our bodies cease to function but I can't honestly believe that that's the case.
[QUOTE=truebluesniper;32089830]Hey guys, let's all use the straw-man on deathstarboot! And hey, while you're at it throw a bunch of big, fancy scientific sounding words in there to make your response sound more valid, but in reality it's just word salad...
I don't know why it's so hard to admit that science cannot explain everything. It's a bit scientifically irresponsible to deny things you don't like, and plus it sounds a little similar to something like the inquisition.[/QUOTE] Scepticism is the default scientific stance, and he has no proof of any of that beyond hearsay and even with NDEs and if those "past life" experiences are true they're more likely to be hallucinations and random chance, and as for "collective moods" in a small area it's a well established fact that our environment has an effect on our mental state.
He also seems to be using the "alternate dimension" definition of the word rather than the scientific definition.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;32082861]How can you explain how it all works together though? Our mind? Soul?
It all comes from somewhere and it isn't worms.[/QUOTE]
facepunch is all against religion, so don't try.
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