Obama will restrict grenade launchers and other military equipment from local police
95 replies, posted
[quote]Washington (CNN)The Obama administration on Monday moved to prohibit federal agencies from providing local cops with certain kinds of military equipment such as grenade launchers, high-caliber weapons and bayonets, [B]in the wake of controversy over a "militarized" police response to unrest last summer in Ferguson[/B], Missouri.
The new prohibitions are part of an executive order President Barack Obama issued for federal agencies to review the types of equipment they provide to local and state police.
Obama traveled Monday [B]to Camden, N.J., to highlight crime reduction and community policing tactics that the administration hopes can be a model around the country.[/B] A spate of officer-involved shootings and the deaths of African-Americans in confrontations with police has made policing an issue the administration is forced to grapple with.
[B]"We've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there's an occupying force as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting them and serving them," Obama said [/B]in Camden Monday. "It can alienate and intimidate local residents and send the wrong message."
Agencies including the Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security departments help provide equipment to local police.
[B]The banned list includes: tank-like armored vehicles that move on tracks, certain types of camouflage uniforms, bayonets, firearms and ammunition of .50 caliber or higher, grenade launchers, and weaponized aircraft.[/B]
The presidential order established a "controlled equipment" list, with tightened requirements before federal agencies can transfer equipment to local cops. These include riot control equipments and drones. Federal agencies will also require local police to provide more data so the government can better track equipment.
[B]Local police can still bypass the federal restrictions and bans by buying the equipment from private sellers.[/B]
Obama announced to new order at the Camden Police Department, where he also toured a tactical operation center, as well as met with officers and young people from the community.[/quote]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/politics/bayonets-police-white-house/index.html[/url]
As someone from South Jersey, I think using Camden as a "model for the country" a little funny, but I'll take it.
You can bet your ass that some fucked in the head folks are going to try to sue the government over teargas launchers.
Jesus christ, bayonets. I'm sorry the last time I checked police were here to Protect and Serve not die for the Emperor.
Eh, I guess that's fair enough. After all, do the police really need explosives or thumpers, even if just to disperse tear gas? They don't need to blow up every perp in the room or level buildings, so smoke bombs are probably enough, right?
Bayonets and tanks aren't necessary for a police force either. For an actual army on the home front, they'd probably need it against whatever force would be determined enough to invade, but general law enforcement doesn't really need that stuff. Only reason the police would need a tank would be if some crazy son-of-a-gun had constructed a heavily-armoured stompy mech and decided to go on a rampage.
the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying
The funny part is than almost every one of those restricted items is something that police generally don't use in the first place.
If a police force needs a 50 cal rifle, they might need only a single one, and at that level they may as well just buy it directly.
I doubt that teargas launchers will even be affected by this as they are generally 37mm rather than the 40mm grenade launchers.
When you hear 'grenade launcher' I know you instantly think of high explosive rounds, but the fact it is that the police use them to fire smoke and teargas ONLY, as they are launched in grenade rounds. I don't think I've ever heard of them actually using HE rounds for any reason.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47752601] not die for the Emperor.[/QUOTE]
Oh
Okay, nevermind
[QUOTE=J!NX;47752626]the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying[/QUOTE]
Do those tear gas launchers that look like grenade launchers count as grenade launchers? I mean they don't launch grenades obviously but I'm just curious.
[editline]a[/editline]
These:
[img]http://web.tradekorea.com/upload_file2/sell/63/S00056163/6_Shells_Revolver_Tear_Gas_Shell_Launcher_.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;47752675]Do those tear gas launchers that look like grenade launchers count as grenade launchers? I mean they don't launch grenades obviously but I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]
That's what they use grenade launchers for. They get the tear gas and smoke cannisters for them
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47752680]That's what they use grenade launchers for. They get the tear gas and smoke cannisters for them[/QUOTE]
I swear they were pneumatic actually, hence why I asked.
Since when did the Police use bayonets? Seems rather pointless to ban something they would literally never use anyway.
Camden? [I]Crime reduction?[/I]
[QUOTE=J!NX;47752626]the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying[/QUOTE]
Just because its labelled a 'grenade launcher' doesn't mean they're firing explosive rounds, they're used to shoot gas rounds a far distance accurately.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47752522][url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/politics/bayonets-police-white-house/index.html[/url]
As someone from South Jersey, I think using Camden as a "model for the country" a little funny, but I'll take it.[/QUOTE]
While reasonable, this still leaves a lot, a LOT, of equipment. MRAPs are still kosher, and that's really what you'd see the most, not to mention that i've personally never seen a rifle caliber higher than 7.62 NATO in the hands of the police.
The camo part i get, i've seen police in MARPAT and that just blows my mind.
Unfortunately, just feel-good legislation.
[QUOTE=Trooper0315;47752663]When you hear 'grenade launcher' I know you instantly think of high explosive rounds, but the fact it is that the police use them to fire smoke and teargas ONLY, as they are launched in grenade rounds. I don't think I've ever heard of them actually using HE rounds for any reason.[/QUOTE]
There is a reason that there is a 37mm "grenade" and a 40mm grenade. The 40mm is meant to be differentiated from the 37mm as a lethal cartridge using device. The 37mm is not meant to use lethal rounds, and as such is generally unregulated, but if you plan on using the rounds against people, you must register it as a destructive device.
[QUOTE=Wipmuck;47752712]Just because its labelled a 'grenade launcher' doesn't mean they're firing explosive rounds, they're used to shoot gas rounds a far distance accurately.[/QUOTE]
Even then, most 37mm devices are called flare guns or gas launchers, rather than grenade launchers, as they do not fire "grenades"
cause what's gonna happen is the still-okay MRAPs are gonna show up and someone who didn't read the specifics of the charter is going to FLIP THEIR LID.
[editline]18th May 2015[/editline]
RIP my merge
What ever shall law enforcement do without their tracked vehicles, weaponized airplanes, .50cal guns, and camouflage...
Oh.. wait... no one has that shit to begin with. This doesnt change anything. Its all a political stunt. The feds dont have the power to do any real changes to law enforcement
Well, that was a retarded knee jerk reaction. The police definitely need the grenade launchers for tear gas and other less lethal options (sponge rounds, etc). I've never seen police use grenades with them. Armored vehicles is useful for when someone is shooting at you. They use armored vehicles to block a suspects ability to shoot at them and civilians by having it sideways towards a suspect. And .50 cal weapons are used by police for disabling vehicles if need be.
Source: TV shows: "Dallas SWAT", "Kansas City SWAT", "Detroit SWAT", etc.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47752626]the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying[/QUOTE]
39mm, same as a civilian can get. They obviously don't launch HE grenades with them, but tear gas
I love the whole militarization of police thing. To my knowledge the police don't use anything that a civilian can't get, and in rare cases are still less equipped (Thanks to the North Hollywood Shootout it's rare, now). Anyway, the police get something like $600 a year as a uniform allowance, depending on the city, and their own money if they're allowed. I know they can go into their big fat warehouse of confiscated weapons and just pick whatever they want as their backup weapon with the only stipulation being the must qualify with it. This isn't going to change anything, really. It's just a "Look, here's something, stop destroying shit" deal
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Its not the equipments fault its some of the officers that use them.
[QUOTE=Kigen;47752738] Armored vehicles is useful for when someone is shooting at you. They use armored vehicles to block a suspects ability to shoot at them and civilians by having it sideways towards a suspect..[/QUOTE]
Only tracked vehicles are banned.
[QUOTE=ossumsauce;47752751]NEW from FN Herstal! Police Special Issue .499 Engine Obliterator![/QUOTE]
Did you even read the OP? They aren't preventing police from buying these things themselves, they are just making it so they cannot request these from the government for free/low prices.
For everyone saying "oh this is just a feel good measure" - [I]no shit, that's literally what Obama said it was[/I]
[quote]"We've seen how militarized gear can sometimes[B] give people a feeling like there's an occupying force[/B] as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting them and serving them," Obama said in Camden Monday. "[B]It can alienate and intimidate local residents[/B] and send the wrong message."[/quote]
[editline]18th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=deadoon;47752765]Did you even read the OP? They aren't preventing police from buying these things themselves, they are just making it so they cannot request these from the government for free/low prices.[/QUOTE]
Well, I want a .50 cal anyway, so time to ramp up those ticket quotas
[QUOTE=deadoon;47752765]Did you even read the OP? They aren't preventing police from buying these things themselves, they are just making it so they cannot request these from the government for free/low prices.[/QUOTE]
Literally a joke. You know, one of those things people say when they want to exercise a sense of humor?
This is a nice gesture, but what really needs to be done is prosecutory reform so that prosecutors don't defend police during grand jury, that's why so many never face trial. Some even before that, because they don't get brought up on charges in the first place.
That would actually allow the community to like, actually believe there is some sort of justice for the inevitable transgressions.
Great, just when I'd hoped all the fuss over "spooky military style tactical assault weapons" was over. And the sad thing is this is a lot less likely to be opposed since it's targeting cops.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47752626]the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying[/QUOTE]
idk the idea that police can justify bayonets is worse, theres not really anything you can use them for other than stabbing people
[QUOTE=ossumsauce;47752782]Literally a joke. You know, one of those things people say when they want to exercise a sense of humor?[/QUOTE]
The way I interpreted your joke was that a company would make a product that was sub 50cal, because police were banned from using 50cal.
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