Russia and China sign ground breaking space exploration agreement
26 replies, posted
[QUOTE]With a summit meeting between the Russian and Chinese presidents due to begin Tuesday, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitri Rogozin has followed last week's rhetorical bombshell — that Russia was not interested in extending operation of the International Space Station, or ISS, beyond 2020 — by trumpeting a future of increased cooperation with the emerging Chinese National Space Agency.
Meeting with his Chinese counterpart, Deputy Prime Minister Wang Yang, in Beijing on Monday, Rogozin announced on Twitter that he had signed "a protocol on establishing a control group for the implementation of eight strategic projects." In a later Facebook post, he said "cooperation in space and in the market for space navigation" were among the projects.
Rogozin and Wang agreed to hold a meeting between the heads of their respective agencies "in the near future," so that Beijing and Moscow could sow the seeds of a potential space partnership.
Federal Space Agency chief Oleg Ostapanko wants to allow "Chinese colleagues participate in some of the most interesting projects that can replace the ISS," Rogozin said, adding that they would also discuss "projects such as cooperation in the field of rocket engine development," and cooperation in the growing market of space applications services — which primarily applies to the development of the Chinese Beidou satellite navigation system and Russia's Glonass navigation system, both rivals to the U.S.' GPS.
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[url]http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-china-sign-space-exploration-agreement/500463.html[/url]
[del]This is going to be interesting to watch.[/del]
You conveniently left out this bit:
[quote][B]However, analysts doubted Russia's ability to be a reliable and fruitful partner to China beyond 2020, as Russian capabilities in space have drastically withered in the 20 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the Russian space program lacks clear direction or goals. [/B]
Bleak Prospects
"The purpose of any cooperation between states in space is to minimize the costs of complex projects and the development of science and technology," Pavel Luzin, a researcher at the Russian Academy of Science's Institute for World Economy and International Relations told the Moscow Times Monday.
By this measure, Luzin sees little point in a Russia-China space partnership. [B]China needs Russia only for "technologies they have not yet developed," and Russia lacks both a long-term vision for its space program and an industry capable of supporting it.[/B]
Aside from the failed Phobos-Grunt scientific mission to one of the Martian moons in 2011, [B]the history of Russian-Chinese cooperation in space amounts to little more than technology transfer.
"In particular, the Chinese manned space program — spacecraft, spacesuits, etc. — is largely built on borrowed Soviet and Russian technology,"[/B] Luzin said, and "such cooperation should not be exaggerated."
[B]China does not need Russia as a genuine partner in space, Luzin thinks[/B]. Having been barred by the U.S. from the International Space Station program — a $100 billion international scientific project involving 15 nations — China has unilaterally pursued an ambitious exploration program in recent years, convinced that a great power must have a commanding presence in space. [/quote]
Russia is mad with their old friend USA and went to the other side of the playground to hang out with the other kid that no one really likes to try and make USA jealous. China is going to suck you dry of every technology you have. Might as well just ship them over every blueprint under the "Space" category in the government file box.
Maybe this will lead to a cold-war style space development race where politicians are constantly worrying about the gap between our tech and the [del]Soviet[/del] former-Soviet tech and dump billions into NASA. Maybe then we'll see some actual progress in space.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44856579]Maybe this will lead to a cold-war style space development race where politicians are constantly worrying about the gap between our tech and the [del]Soviet[/del] former-Soviet tech and dump billions into NASA. Maybe then we'll see some actual progress in space.[/QUOTE]
Not likely, most politicians would rather dump money into their pockets rather than to the betterment of humankind.
[QUOTE=OvB;44856562][del]This is going to be interesting to watch.[/del]
You conveniently left out this bit:
Russia is mad with their old friend USA and went to the other side of the playground to hang out with the other kid that no one really likes to try and make USA jealous. China is going to suck you dry of every technology you have. Might as well just ship them over every blueprint under the "Space" category in the government file box.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Unfortunately, none of these problems were appropriately addressed, said Luzin, and any discussion of Russia's future in space beyond 2020 "rests on the need for deep structural reforms, which not only Rogozin is unprepared for, but the entire Putin team. Moreover, there is no understanding in government of where and how we can and must develop in space."
Oberg was blunt — Russia's main gain in courting Chinese space cooperation is in "fanning nostalgia for obsolete anti-U.S. alliances," he said. [/quote]
The rest of the article is pretty pessimistic toward the whole deal.
[QUOTE=OvB;44856701]The rest of the article is pretty pessimistic toward the whole deal.[/QUOTE]
I left out the "analysis".
A bit off topic but what was the reason China was banned from the ISS program?
Russia needs to get a plan and work on that plan. They should be building the Angara 7 or bigger and planning for Mars. The United States is working on technology that could go to Mars but we don't really have anyone to play with to drive that nationalist competition to win over congressmen. Russia and China working together won't bear fruit for decades and it'll be Chinese fruit when it's all over. Maybe Russia bringing China up to speed will give us another contender in the whole game, who knows.
[QUOTE=G3rman;44856747]A bit off topic but what was the reason China was banned from the ISS program?[/QUOTE]
The same reason Russia is banning the U.S. from the space station.
[QUOTE=G3rman;44856747]A bit off topic but what was the reason China was banned from the ISS program?[/QUOTE]
Probably Communism or something.
[editline]20th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=laserguided;44856754]The same reason Russia is banning the U.S. from the space station.[/QUOTE]
Russia's not banning anyone from the ISS. They're refusing to fly us after 2020 and refusing the keep the station alive past 2020 so that deal doesn't even matter anymore. We'll be riding with SpaceX by 2016-2017 so if were still paying the Russians for their overpriced, cramped, soviet taxi ride I'd be very upset.
[QUOTE=OvB;44856562] Might as well just ship them over every blueprint under the "Space" category in the government file box.[/QUOTE]
And while you're at it ship them the file box too. They'll find a use for it on the spacecraft somewhere.
Why is it so hard for Russia to set some concrete goals in regards to their space program?
Last I checked, they still have yet to put anyone on the moon :v:
[QUOTE=ewitwins;44857429]Why is it so hard for Russia to set some concrete goals in regards to their space program?
Last I checked, they still have yet to put anyone on the moon :v:[/QUOTE]
Moon is a dead barren rock that no one really needs, so I [b]hope[/b] no one would really think in that direction. All Moon might be good for is a rest-stop on the way to Mars, for example. Resources wise, not worth the trouble.
Strategical side of space exploration and development is as complex as it sounds, not a set of goals to meet, wasting money for nothing in the end.
Red at night, Shepherd's Delight
Red in morning, those darn commies...
[QUOTE=zombini;44856612]Not likely, most politicians would rather dump money into their pockets rather than to the betterment of humankind.[/QUOTE]
As if that was any different in the Cold War.
I kind of wonder if Russia really wants another cold war, only with less threat of nuclear retaliation.
I mean it's the best of both worlds, since nobody can even mention uranium without the world peering down on them. But you get all the good things that came out of a war, like technological progress, competition, the stuff that advances our world tenfold.
[QUOTE=gudman;44857553]All Moon might be good for is a rest-stop on the way to Mars, for example.[/QUOTE]
Basicly this, and the fact that building a base there would give us a unique experience that would be used later, and Moon's position would allow colonists to easily escape back to the planet in case of something goes wrong. I think it makes sense to train on Moon a bit to identify potential problems and find ways to solve them before going to completely another planet.
And, as far as I heard, this is exactly what Roskosmos is planning for the relatively near future, so I don't understand why people say that they have no goals.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44856579]Maybe this will lead to a cold-war style space development race where politicians are constantly worrying about the gap between our tech and the [del]Soviet[/del] former-Soviet tech and dump billions into NASA. Maybe then we'll see some actual progress in space.[/QUOTE]
Or they'll probably just keep on crusading in the Middle East for American values and what little oil we have left.
[QUOTE=antianan;44857761]Basicly this, and the fact that building a base there would give us a unique experience that would be used later, and Moon's position would allow colonists to easily escape back to the planet in case of something goes wrong. I think it makes sense to train on Moon a bit to identify potential problems and find ways to solve them before going to completely another planet.
And, as far as I heard, this is exactly what Roskosmos is planning for the relatively near future, so I don't understand why people say that they have no goals.[/QUOTE]
Most likely they have this goal: "colonize moon" and nothing else. Like, no actual realistic strategy behind it. Seems stupid, but might be true considering just who Rogozin is (incompetent fuck).
[QUOTE=ironman17;44858197]Or they'll probably just keep on crusading in the Middle East for American values and [B]what little oil we have left[/B].[/QUOTE]
Hah. "Little"
Now the EU and the USA will start common projects.
Right?
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;44859644]Now the EU and the USA will start common projects.
Right?[/QUOTE]
ESA and NASA have been cooperating on projects since around the 1980's (Didn't find exact date). ESA astronauts used the shuttle and they cooperated on projects like Spacelab, James Webb Space Telescope and LISA
I want another space race. Last space race, we got to the moon. Just imagine where we could get if it was China/Russia vs. USA.
[QUOTE=gudman;44858498]Most likely they have this goal: "colonize moon" and nothing else. Like, no actual realistic strategy behind it. Seems stupid, but might be true considering just who Rogozin is (incompetent fuck).[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah, this also could be possible. Anyways, even colonizing Moon would be a great step ahead.
I don't see much difference between Moon and Mars in this case, by the way. I mean, we won't be able to get anything like resources from there in any near future, so probably colonizing Moon would even be a better idea from this point of view. Less difficulties, same result.
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;44859644]Now the EU and the USA will start common projects.
Right?[/QUOTE]
They already had a lot of common projects, like Hubble and lots more.
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;44859644]Now the EU and the USA will start common projects.
Right?[/QUOTE]
the ESA built spacehab, also a bunch of components for the shuttle, and an italian firm built all the american modules on the space station, so they've been cooperating since the early 80s actually pretty much since nasa got manned launch capabilities back with the shuttle about the same time the ESA started to actually get things rolling, i do think though its time to bring china into the ISS, fracturing space exploration and locking people out of big important projects is not a way to progress in space. we can give them russia's seat at the table if the russians want to not have anything with NASA and ESA
I think Space is cool, but anything worth exploring is probably too far away to be able to be explored... But who knows.
I think trying to vegetate mars (if possible) would be a cool idea.
[QUOTE=Crypptic;44860655]I think Space is cool, but anything worth exploring is probably too far away to be able to be explored... But who knows.
I think trying to [B]vegetate[/B] mars (if possible) would be a cool idea.[/QUOTE]
You mean terraforming Mars?
Yeah, good luck with that. It has a dead core
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