• Senate Committee Authorizes Military Force in Syria
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[quote]WASHINGTON –- A divided Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted narrowly Wednesday to authorize a punitive U.S. strike against Syria, opening the way for a vote in the full Senate next week. The vote was 10 to 7, with Democrats and Republicans on each side. Committee Chairman Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) supported the measure, as did ranking member Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has repeatedly urged President Obama to do more to aid the Syrian opposition. Opponents included conservative Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), and liberals Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) and Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.). Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), who voted for the resolution, said it would send a clear message to Assad. "This won't be a limited, but a powerful response," he said. The resolution, which was shaped by Menendez and Corker, called for a more limited use of force than Obama had proposed Saturday, when he announced that he would seek congressional blessing to strike Syria. But it also incorporated language from McCain calling for the United States to seek to shift the balance on the battlefield against Syrian President Bashar Assad’s government. The United States and other governments have accused Assad’s military of launching a chemical weapons attack Aug. 21 on Damascus suburbs. Assad has denied that his forces were involved. Several senators, including Corker, Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and James Risch (R-Idaho), predicted that the resolution would be adopted by the full Senate. But there were also signs Wednesday that the administration and its supporters face a tough slog in the House. At a hearing before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, members of both parties complained that the plan risked deeper U.S. involvement in the war without a strategic payoff. “Americans are skeptical of getting near a conflict that, as one witness has noted, is fueled by historic ethnic, religious and tribal issues,” said Rep. Ed Royce (D-Fullerton), who is chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.[/quote] LA Times Like to article: [url]http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-senate-committee-military-strike-syria-20130904,0,7238618.story[/url]
[quote] Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.)[/quote] THEY CALL YOU [B]DICK[/B] DURBIN FOR A REASON! I mean, good god! They [I]know[/I] the possible consequences! Be it a "simple" rocket strike or not. What if Assad's forces retaliate by slaughtering civilians, what do we do then? Do we just sit and watch that or do we make another "red line"?
Oh shit.
[quote] Opponents included conservative Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), and liberals Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) and Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).[/quote] Chris Murphy is not a liberal, he's a fairly conservative Democrat. I know it's unpopular here on Facepunch, but I support punitive missile strikes on Syrian military assets. I don't support any operations that would involve the deployment of infantry.
This strike is pretty much Lebanon's invitation to the Syrian civil war. Thanks for RSVPing on our behalf America, not like we wanted to choose to join or anything.
Obama fucked himself with the Red Line speech. He is smart enough to realize the consequences of going through with the strike, and the weakness perceived from not. As a political way out he defers it to congress to make the decision and will blame them for whatever the consequences are. He was probably going to go through with it fully until Britain pulled out, which is why he took so long to defer to congress.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42079805']Obama fucked himself with the Red Line speech. He is smart enough to realize the consequences of going through with the strike, and the weakness perceived from not. As a political way out he defers it to congress to make the decision and will blame them for whatever the consequences are. He was probably going to go through with it fully until Britain pulled out, which is why he took so long to defer to congress.[/QUOTE] I don't think that he'll blame Congress for the possible consequences. He himself has said that the responsibility for American military operations falls first and foremost on the Commander-in-Chief.
[QUOTE=PolarEventide;42079857]I don't think that he'll blame Congress for the possible consequences. He himself has said that the responsibility for American military operations falls first and foremost on the Commander-in-Chief.[/QUOTE] True, but if he did it without congressional approval he would be entirely to blame, while with congressional approval all he did was present a case. They made the decision.
Still need a full senate vote before they'll do anything unless I read wrong.
[QUOTE=slamex;42079968]Still need a full senate vote before they'll do anything unless I read wrong.[/QUOTE] Nope, you're right, they still need to bring this to the Senate then get the House on board then pass with some sort of majority ( I don't know what it is for things like this) and then make orders. So realistically, the decision could take as long as the UN does it's chemical tests.
[QUOTE=Mr_Sun;42080096]Nope, you're right, they still need to bring this to the Senate then get the House on board then pass with some sort of majority ( I don't know what it is for things like this) and then make orders. So realistically, the decision could take as long as the UN does it's chemical tests.[/QUOTE] Additionally, Congress is in recess until Monday. Won't be a full Senate vote until then.
My fucking senator voted for it. This isn't surprising, though. Kerry was part of the Foreign Relations Committee for the longest of times. Of course his little group is going to give him what he asks for. [editline]4th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=agentalexandre;42079797]This strike is pretty much Lebanon's invitation to the Syrian civil war. Thanks for RSPVing on our behalf America, not like we wanted to choose to join or anything.[/QUOTE] How will Lebanon be drawn in? Use of airspace?
The sad part is that there are a million ways to use military power to solve the Syrian crisis. But sending a couple missiles to punish Assad without toppling him is ridiculous. I believe in punishing those who break international law (I know the hypocrisy of the statement, being an American...), so something should be done, just not this.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42080982]My fucking senator voted for it. This isn't surprising, though. Kerry was part of the Foreign Relations Committee for the longest of times. Of course his little group is going to give him what he asks for. [editline]4th September 2013[/editline] How will Lebanon be drawn in? Use of airspace?[/QUOTE] Hey, a fellow Illinoisan. Anyways, I'm probably going to make an angry call to his office about this. [editline]4th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=person11;42081142]The sad part is that there are a million ways to use military power to solve the Syrian crisis. But sending a couple missiles to punish Assad without toppling him is ridiculous. I believe in punishing those who break international law (I know the hypocrisy of the statement, being an American...), so something should be done, just not this.[/QUOTE] There is a potential diplomatic route that I've heard some Congressman suggesting, such as economic sanctions.
[QUOTE=Splash Attack;42081554]Hey, a fellow Illinoisan. Anyways, I'm probably going to make an angry call to his office about this. [editline]4th September 2013[/editline] [/QUOTE] I'm from New Jersey.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/oSrIT.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Splash Attack;42081554]Hey, a fellow Illinoisan. Anyways, I'm probably going to make an angry call to his office about this. [editline]4th September 2013[/editline] There is a potential diplomatic route that I've heard some Congressman suggesting, such as economic sanctions.[/QUOTE] Syria's largest import/export partner I believe is the Russian Federation, which would never agree to economic sanctions. Therefore, it wouldn't be effective.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42081629]I'm from New Jersey.[/QUOTE] Oh, I thought you were referring to Dick Durbin. :v: I feel dumb now.
The Senate has yet to vote on action, that comes next week when the senate resumes on the 9th The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is a small group of 18 vs the 100 senators on the senate floor, and the article says that it BARELY passed don't count your chickens before they hatch
[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;42081834]The Senate has yet to vote on action, that comes next week when the senate resumes on the 9th The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is a small group of 18 vs the 100 senators on the senate floor, and the article says that it BARELY passed don't count your chickens before they hatch[/QUOTE] I haven't much faith in my government to not intervene when it can. I know that a majority of Congress is saying they won't, but I'm not holding my breath while I hope.
This seems very similar to what the US did in Libya not long ago. IIRC there were no soldiers on the ground, just rocket/drone strikes.
There is no good reason the US should intervene at all. Absolutely stupid.
[QUOTE=patq911;42081882]This seems very similar to what the US did in Libya not long ago. IIRC there were no soldiers on the ground, just rocket/drone strikes.[/QUOTE] Libya we acted relatively early, and there was at least a way to see that the rebels there were a better path for the country. In Syria it's too late and the rebels are extremely scummy. I know this strike is only supposed to target chemical weapons but it could very well lead to something we really don't need to get into.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;42082007]Libya we acted relatively early, and there was at least a way to see that the rebels there were a better path for the country. In Syria it's too late and the rebels are extremely scummy. I know this strike is only supposed to target chemical weapons but it could very well lead to something we really don't need to get into.[/QUOTE] I'm just waiting for the blowback.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42080982]How will Lebanon be drawn in? Use of airspace?[/QUOTE] Sectarian conflict between Sunnis and Shias in the county will only increase. The weakening of Assad will mean that the many players of the game in the Syrian civil war (whether regime or opposition) will step up their use of Lebanon as a mailbox. Because the politicians here can easily be classified as either pro or anti Assad, Lebanon is highly intertwined with Syria. The reality is that its much easier to retaliate to an attack in Syria by sending a message to your attacker through Lebanon. If you're in the opposition, you give a call to your mates in Beirut and tell them to plant a bomb in Dahiyeh. Dahiyeh being a Hezbollah 'stronghold' (I don't particularly like to use that word as it's a civilian neighbourhood and its definitely not infested with Hezbollah militiamen) means that Assad gets a strong message that we can still hit you where it hurts despite what you've done to us. Vice versa with the Syrian regime ordering attacks. Nearly 100 people have been killed and over 1000 people have been injured in August in Lebanon because of two attacks which happened exactly because of what I just described. If a strike occurs to weaken Assad, Hezbollah will not be happy and it's very, very likely that they will do one/both of the following: retaliate by striking sympathisers of the opposition in Lebanon or retaliate by striking Israel. Obviously, neither one of these is any good because it just exacerbates the situation and continues to allow the civil war across the border to spill in. And I realise that its very easy to say that this is Hezbollah's fault, and the Lebanese should do something about Hezbollah's arms. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Hezbollah, despite what the international community may think of it, is the only force that is actually any good at protecting Lebanon. The military is not very large and badly trained, the airforce next to non-existent(this page always makes me chuckle: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Air_Force[/url]) and I don't think I've even heard of a Lebanese navy. Getting rid of Hezbollah might fix Lebanon's image and help stabilise the country but it's not very easy. The country has no money, no government - no one could come to a decision on the formation of the new cabinet so they violated the constitution and extended the parliament's term i.e literally no legislation is taking place because the parliament is not allowed to meet. We have nearly 800,000 Syrian refugees and the population of Lebanon was around 4 million before the crisis, there is simply not enough economic resources and infrastructure to care for such a huge increase in population. The country is quite literally dying and it doesn't need a strike on Assad. I sympathise with the Syrians and they are brothers and sisters to me but unfortunately its too late for the country. It's, however, not too late for Lebanon. We came out of a brutal civil war 20 years ago and slowly the country has been trying to rebuild but there's been too many setbacks that bring us to square one again. We're all sitting everyday watching the debates going on around the world, praying that the final verdict is a no. I live in London but I've been in Lebanon on holiday for the past 4 months and I'm going back next week. In this situation, I don't want to leave. I can't imagine waking up in the UK to find out that my country, my family and my girlfriend are in trouble. What the fuck am I going to do then? What are the innocent Lebanese going to do when the time comes that they have to pay dearly for a situation they have so desperately tried to keep themselves out of. What will happen to the millions of Syrian and Palestinian refugees if Lebanon falls into war? Yes, someone must be punished for the crimes that have occurred in Syria, but not anyone outside the borders of the country. [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] Shit, I typed an essay. tl;dr Lebanon is fucked yo.
I know the situation's pretty fucked up, but [I]the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.[/I]
[QUOTE=Apache249;42083381]I know the situation's pretty fucked up, but [I]the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.[/I][/QUOTE] Then go over there and fight the evil.
I am completely okay with this.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42083641]Then go over there and fight the evil.[/QUOTE] Give me a couple years.
[QUOTE=Apache249;42083381]I know the situation's pretty fucked up, but [I]the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.[/I][/QUOTE] Evil in this case is a 1000 shades of grey. The senate Committee has, in it resolution, now stated this is to overthrow Assad. If the senate votes for this, than the regime WILL be toppled and no one knows what follows. Great decision.
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