This was said already, still insane when you think about it though.
And yet Steam still shits itself whenever there's a big TF2 update
too bad that most of the updates are cosmetics and balance fixes instead of things contributing to the actual game
[QUOTE=SatansSin;42217486]too bad that most of the updates are cosmetics and balance fixes instead of things contributing to the actual game[/QUOTE]
are you saying the balance fixes dont contribute to the game?
[QUOTE=nmagain;42217505]are you saying the balance fixes dont contribute to the game?[/QUOTE]
sorry I should have worded it differently, that balance fixes do contribute, but actual different changes to the game would be nice. A new map would be pretty bitchin. Hell even a new hero would be nice.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;42217942]sorry I should have worded it differently, that balance fixes do contribute, but actual different changes to the game would be nice. A new map would be pretty bitchin. Hell even a new hero would be nice.[/QUOTE]
A new map is something that would have an incredibly low chance of happening.
creating a new map for a moba is hard considering it has to be balanced for both sides.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;42217942]sorry I should have worded it differently, that balance fixes do contribute, but actual different changes to the game would be nice. A new map would be pretty bitchin. Hell even a new hero would be nice.[/QUOTE]
A new map would require unbelievable amounts of changes before the community would even consider accepting it.
Besides. How many even ways can you draw 3 lines to 2 points.
A new map with a different setup. ARAM or 3v3, for example. You wouldn't have to do 5v5 in every map.
[QUOTE=Lijitsu;42219427]A new map with a different setup. ARAM or 3v3, for example. You wouldn't have to do 5v5 in every map.[/QUOTE]
hon and lol did that and guess what
nobody plays on those maps because they're horribly imbalanced.
The fuck are you talking about, ARAM and 3v3 get played all the time in League.
Dota 2 doesn't need a new map. Hero production is painfully slow though.
[QUOTE=:0;42218197]creating a new map for a moba is hard considering it has to be balanced for both sides.[/QUOTE]
Not really, you just have to mirror it.
[QUOTE=Xion12;42219757]Not really, you just have to mirror it.[/QUOTE]
Or rotational symmetry, I've always liked rotationally symmetrical maps in RTS games.
DOTA2 needs custom maps ALA Warcraft 3.
^ = Best game ever, nothing would even compete for the next 6 years at least.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;42219844]DOTA2 needs custom maps ALA Warcraft 3.
^ = Best game ever, nothing would even compete for the next 6 years at least.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if they make Custom games, like Dota was for Warcraft 3.
Dota 2 will make Warcraft 4. :v:
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;42219890]Maybe if they make Custom games, like Dota was for Warcraft 3.
Dota 2 will make Warcraft 4. :v:[/QUOTE]
And then Valve made an RTS in the artstyle and theme of Dota 2.
Make it happen Gaben.
[QUOTE=Xion12;42219757]Not really, you just have to mirror it.[/QUOTE]
good luck on making a map that's perfectly symmetrical. you'd have to get rid of roshan/whatever variant as well as fix the vertical view so that it's equal both when looking towards the bottom of the screen as it is looking towards the top of the screen since it's not fully birds-eye view.
Maybe they could keep the same layout and stuff but make it snowy for christmas or black for february or something
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;42219890]Maybe if they make Custom games, like Dota was for Warcraft 3.
Dota 2 will make Warcraft 4. :v:[/QUOTE]
That's the thing I don't understand.
DOTA was originally a custom game, and it wasn't even the best one by a long shot. It was mediocre at best, but it caught on with asian kids and got popular that way (so popular they hacked it into a standalone client. Hell, some of the original DOtA players didn't even know what WC3 was).
But instead of looking at the origin of DOTA and seeing that Warcraft 3 was just a standard RTS with INCREDIBLE modding capabilities and a fuckton of assets that made stuff like DOTA possible, then making an RTS engine with incredible modding capabilities and being like 'tada, make a load of good shit' - they took a fairly crappy custom game that caught on with asian kids and made that into a full game instead.
I can think of tons of more-original, better-than-DOTA custom games that came from WC3.
Parasite. Took place on a fucking HUGE space station where all of the players were crew members. One of the players was a randomly assigned zombie but no-one knew who they were. You just went about your duties (which involved the ship being damaged and requiring repairs, away parties onto planet surfaces, asteroid bases, etc) and it was generally fucking excellent. The parasitic crew member had to wipe out the crew.
Lord of the Rings RPG. Basically, the entirety of Lord of the Rings Adventure but converted into a WC3 RPG. All of the players were the individual party members and you went along, following the story and dialogue. Was pretty difficult, don't think I ever got past Moria.
Pokemon RPG. You'd basically be a Pokemon trainer in a fully articulated Pokemon world, where you'd go around catching creatures and battling them against other people. Had the ability to save game, MMO style too. It was quite good if i recall.
Battleships Crossfire. It was DOTA but with boats. Except you could upgrade your hulls, and your hulls had gun slots on them, for independent guns that automatically fired continuously, even if you moved. There were about 200 different things you could buy for your boat, not to mention combinations of guns (2x rocket launchers would make a double rocket launcher, a double rocket launcher and a double machine gun would probably make something even more awesome) and all the guns had awesome, sweet effects and things. You could even get beam lasers.
Battle tanks. DOTA but with tanks. Map layout was the same as DOTA but bigger and had train tracks going all over it and cappable bases instead of towers. Guns fired continuously, same as battleships and again there were literally hundreds of different tank chassis/ guns you could buy and equip. Also had planes and some players could choose to go 'trader' and instead fly around trying not to get shot down whilst making huge income for their teams.
Helms Deep Defence. I really enjoyed this. Majority of players were on the defending team and took the roles of the heroes and tons of units, archers, swordsmen, on the helms deep walls. The other player (or 2) took the role of the orcs and literally controlled/created thousands of units and sent them in, wave-after-wave. Variations on this existed like 'TROY' and '300'. All awesome.
RISK. The board game RISK, but recreated in WC3. Basically a realistic map of the world, in fairly huge scale. You get a ton of random territories and units spawn every 3 seconds. You expand out to capture adjacent territories and attempt world domination. This was mental with 8+ players. Variations existed like 'Lord of the Rings RISK' which were fucking epic. Had unique units that spawned if you controlled certain territories (If you had Moria, you'd get cave trolls periodically or something).
Life of a Peasant. You took the role of a peasant in a huge city, bought houses and got jobs which you actually had to do, there was a mafia and police force and in some versions (resident evil) there was a laboratory that made zombies and everyone evacuates (probably sounds shit but it was fucking great).
Footman Frenzy. 12 player game. 4 teams of 3. You spawn controllable footmen (generic creep unit) every 3 seconds in your base and a large melee zone was in the middle of the map where people would send their footmen to die. You also had a hero unit who could buff or use abilities. You'd get upgrades, like exchanging your footmen for archers, snipers or ents, or upgrading their armour.
Pimp my Peon. Similar to footmen, except everyone was against each other and had their own 'mountain' upon which their orc peon (another generic unit) spawned. This had a crazy advanced feature in it where your upgrades were all visual on your units. Like if you bought your peon a sword upgrade, they'd all be holding swords. If you bought a shield, they'd all have shields. Helmets, cloaks and so on. It was fucking sick.
Hungry Hungry Felhounds. You chuck a ball around in an arena and a 'Felhound' runs around chasing the ball holder, gradually accelerating. But, the area floor is like ice/mud and causes the felhound to lose traction and start drifting around, meaning skilled players can time their throws to get people out as the felhound drifts into them. Fucking amazing physics.
Team Tower defences. There were literally thousands of good tower defence games. Some of them were team efforts where you'd face 100+ levels of creeps that got continually better. Some were competitive, where you'd be able to spawn creep waves that went down enemies lanes (whilst building your own towers). Balance was key. Wintermaul wars was a notable epic team-based one that spawned many similar layouts.
Notably, Stronghold TD. it was a 3 v 3 v 3 where each team had a symmetrical mountain base with 2 paths for creeps to follow. You'd build towers (with gold) to kill incoming creeps (and gain gold per kill) whilst simultaneously buying creeps to send into enemy bases. I think the creeps were bought with lumber (another resource like gold) and for each one you spawned you got more lumber-per-10seconds and you worked your way up through the ranks of creep spawns as their cost increased. I think there were something like 30 different levels/types of tower and about 50 different creeps you could spawn.
These are literally a tiny fraction of the custom games available on WC3. There were thousands being hosted every hour continuously when BNet and WC3 was in it's prime. I've honestly never had more replayability from a game. Ever. If Valve did it well, I think it'd literally last a good 10-15 years, easily.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;42217942]sorry I should have worded it differently, that balance fixes do contribute, but actual different changes to the game would be nice. A new map would be pretty bitchin. Hell even a new hero would be nice.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;42219844]DOTA2 needs custom maps ALA Warcraft 3.
^ = Best game ever, nothing would even compete for the next 6 years at least.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2013/07/dota-2-26th-july/#unreleased-custom-gamemodes"]Custom gamemodes (and assumedly custom maps by association) are in development.[/URL]
How often do new characters come out for this? I started playing league of legends in december and i've seen like 5 or 6 new ones since then, is it that slow for DOTA as well?
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;42220371]How often do new characters come out for this? I started playing league of legends in december and i've seen like 5 or 6 new ones since then, is it that slow for DOTA as well?[/QUOTE]
1 every few months if we're lucky.
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;42220371]How often do new characters come out for this? I started playing league of legends in december and i've seen like 5 or 6 new ones since then, is it that slow for DOTA as well?[/QUOTE]
New heroes have been ported from Dota 1 once every few months recently, there's ~2 heroes added to Dota 1 yearly.
[QUOTE=Xion12;42219757]Not really, you just have to mirror it.[/QUOTE]
Both sides have quite a difference in terrain actually.
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;42220371]How often do new characters come out for this? I started playing league of legends in december and i've seen like 5 or 6 new ones since then, is it that slow for DOTA as well?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;42220426]1 every few months if we're lucky.[/QUOTE]
you have to remember that the heroes that are being ported have to be redesigned as they can't just be copy pasted from wc3 dota to dota 2 because of copyright. they then have to record voices, make sure there aren't any glaringly huge bugs, make sure they're not overpowered to shit, make unique particles and designs for the spells, etc.
it's not like league where they can continue churning out characters because most of the spells are reskinned and they don't really have to worry about the balance because of said reskinned spells.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;42220313]That's the thing I don't understand.
DOTA was originally a custom game, and it wasn't even the best one by a long shot. It was mediocre at best, but it caught on with asian kids and got popular that way (so popular they hacked it into a standalone client. Hell, most of the original DOtA players didn't even know what WC3 was).
But instead of looking at the origin of DOTA and seeing that Warcraft 3 was just a standard RTS with INCREDIBLE modding capabilities and a fuckton of assets that made stuff like DOTA possible, then making an RTS engine with incredible modding capabilities and being like 'tada, make a load of good shit' - they took a fairly crappy custom game that caught on with asian kids and made that into a full game instead.
I can think of tons of more-original, better-than-DOTA custom games that came from WC3.
Parasite. Took place on a fucking HUGE space station where all of the players were crew members. One of the players was a randomly assigned zombie but no-one knew who they were. You just went about your duties (which involved the ship being damaged and requiring repairs, away parties onto planet surfaces, asteroid bases, etc) and it was generally fucking excellent. The parasitic crew member had to wipe out the crew.
Lord of the Rings RPG. Basically, the entirety of Lord of the Rings Adventure but converted into a WC3 RPG. All of the players were the individual party members and you went along, following the story and dialogue. Was pretty difficult, don't think I ever got past Moria.
Pokemon RPG. You'd basically be a Pokemon trainer in a fully articulated Pokemon world, where you'd go around catching creatures and battling them against other people. Had the ability to save game, MMO style too. It was quite good if i recall.
Battleships Crossfire. It was DOTA but with boats. Except you could upgrade your hulls, and your hulls had gun slots on them, for independent guns that automatically fired continuously, even if you moved. There were about 200 different things you could buy for your boat, not to mention combinations of guns (2x rocket launchers would make a double rocket launcher, a double rocket launcher and a double machine gun would probably make something even more awesome) and all the guns had awesome, sweet effects and things. You could even get beam lasers.
Battle tanks. DOTA but with tanks. Map layout was the same as DOTA but bigger and had train tracks going all over it and cappable bases instead of towers. Guns fired continuously, same as battleships and again there were literally hundreds of different tank chassis/ guns you could buy and equip. Also had planes and some players could choose to go 'trader' and instead fly around trying not to get shot down whilst making huge income for their teams.
Helms Deep Defence. I really enjoyed this. Majority of players were on the defending team and took the roles of the heroes and tons of units, archers, swordsmen, on the helms deep walls. The other player (or 2) took the role of the orcs and literally controlled/created thousands of units and sent them in, wave-after-wave. Variations on this existed like 'TROY' and '300'. All awesome.
RISK. The board game RISK, but recreated in WC3. Basically a realistic map of the world, in fairly huge scale. You get a ton of random territories and units spawn every 3 seconds. You expand out to capture adjacent territories and attempt world domination. This was mental with 8+ players. Variations existed like 'Lord of the Rings RISK' which were fucking epic. Had unique units that spawned if you controlled certain territories (If you had Moria, you'd get cave trolls periodically or something).
Life of a Peasant. You took the role of a peasant in a huge city, bought houses and got jobs which you actually had to do, there was a mafia and police force and in some versions (resident evil) there was a laboratory that made zombies and everyone evacuates (probably sounds shit but it was fucking great).
Footman Frenzy. 12 player game. 4 teams of 3. You spawn controllable footmen (generic creep unit) every 3 seconds in your base and a large melee zone was in the middle of the map where people would send their footmen to die. You also had a hero unit who could buff or use abilities. You'd get upgrades, like exchanging your footmen for archers, snipers or ents, or upgrading their armour.
Pimp my Peon. Similar to footmen, except everyone was against each other and had their own 'mountain' upon which their orc peon (another generic unit) spawned. This had a crazy advanced feature in it where your upgrades were all visual on your units. Like if you bought your peon a sword upgrade, they'd all be holding swords. If you bought a shield, they'd all have shields. Helmets, cloaks and so on. It was fucking sick.
Hungry Hungry Felhounds. You chuck a ball around in an arena and a 'Felhound' runs around chasing the ball holder, gradually accelerating. But, the area floor is like ice/mud and causes the felhound to lose traction and start drifting around, meaning skilled players can time their throws to get people out as the felhound drifts into them. Fucking amazing physics.
Team Tower defences. There were literally thousands of good tower defence games. Some of them were team efforts where you'd face 100+ levels of creeps that got continually better. Some were competitive, where you'd be able to spawn creep waves that went down enemies lanes (whilst building your own towers). Balance was key. Wintermaul wars was a notable epic team-based one that spawned many similar layouts.
Notably, Stronghold TD. it was a 3 v 3 v 3 where each team had a symmetrical mountain base with 2 paths for creeps to follow. You'd build towers (with gold) to kill incoming creeps (and gain gold per kill) whilst simultaneously buying creeps to send into enemy bases. I think the creeps were bought with lumber (another resource like gold) and for each one you spawned you got more lumber-per-10seconds and you worked your way up through the ranks of creep spawns as their cost increased. I think there were something like 30 different levels/types of tower and about 50 different creeps you could spawn.
These are literally a tiny fraction of the custom games available on WC3. There were thousands being hosted every hour continuously when BNet and WC3 was in it's prime. I've honestly never had more replayability from a game. Ever. If Valve did it well, I think it'd literally last a good 10-15 years, easily.[/QUOTE]
Saddens me that you don't have 100+ 'Winning' award thingies. As someone who grew up on all of the above, I couldn't agree more. Reading all that took me back, those were the fucking days. So much amazing replayibility in one game due to the awesome modability. Heck, it's still relatively active today due to a bot game creation system.
[QUOTE=FullStreak12;42220185]Maybe they could keep the same layout and stuff but make it snowy for christmas or black for february or something[/QUOTE]
Well, they've already made and used a snow map with an iced-over river for last Christmas' Greeviling event, which also came with a snowy HUD, and the Diretide event for last Halloween came with a whole new autumn-themed map dotted with graves, coffins, pumpkins, mushrooms and things, with a blood river and a bloody HUD too.
Both of these maps were forced skins for usual gameplay too, not just the events, so that made a nice change for a while.
[QUOTE=butters757;42220327][URL="http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2013/07/dota-2-26th-july/#unreleased-custom-gamemodes"]Custom gamemodes (and assumedly custom maps by association) are in development.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Yes. Fuck yes.
This is promising. I worry it might just be stuff like diretide that we've seen before, that they occasionally do and then take down.
Although knowing Valve, they love things free and open and I'm certain they're just polishing this so that it comes out great in the end.
Made a custom game thread: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1308248[/url]
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