Vladimir Putin: Assange's arrest shows hypocrisy of the West about democracy
65 replies, posted
Thought this didn't fit in the WL megathread since it's more about international politics than anything.
[release][B]The arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange for sexual misconduct illustrates the hypocrisy of the West about democracy, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin says.[/B]
In the strongest comments to come out of Russia in the latest WikiLeaks saga, Putin also took aim at the U.S. for the cables, some of which had derided Russia a "mafia state."
Assange's arrest in London earlier this week indicated that the West isn't as democratic as it thinks it is, Putin suggested.
"If there is democracy, it must be a full one. Why did they jail Mr. Assange? Is that democracy?" Putin said at a news conference Thursday. "You know what our villagers say: while someone's cow is mooing, yours better be silent." The Russian expression is loosely equivalent to the pot calling the kettle black.
[...]
[/release]
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-slams-west-wikileaks-arrest/story?id=12364345[/url]
[url]http://www.mediaite.com/tv/vladimir-putin-attacks-u-s-western-democracy-for-julian-assange-arrest/[/url]
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6B81WP20101209[/url]
[url]http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/WikiLeaks+founder+victim+feminism/3964794/story.html[/url]
IMO he is correct but should still be not the one to talk about democracy. I also cannot stop reading everything he says in a Russian accent in my head.
You say it, komrad.
We are not in democracy, trust me. Just look at how Ireland got taken over by the EU/FMI recently.
Amen, brotha.
He is right though.
hahahahaha Putin attacks the West for arresting a critic. I suppose that it'd be unfair to say that Putin would jail an opponent of his regime - they'd probably just be quietly killed.
How hypocritical of Putin to criticize the West's suppression of free speech and its failing democracy.
However if you honestly think the West is any less corrupt or rigged than the east you are a naive fool.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26643171]hahahahaha Putin attacks the West for arresting a critic. I suppose that it'd be unfair to say that Putin would jail an opponent of his regime - they'd probably just be quietly killed.[/QUOTE]
Putin isn't claiming his country is democratic
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
What Putin is basically saying is when it all boils down the east and west are basically the same, regardless of the bold claims of equality, liberty, and freedom in the west
[QUOTE=JohnRockefeller;26643262]Putin isn't claiming his country is democratic
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
What Putin is basically saying is when it all boils down the east and west are basically the same, regardless of the bold claims of equality, liberty, and freedom in the west[/QUOTE]
Except Russia and America aren't remotely the same in terms of those issues.
Putin is often outspoken and I love him for it but I still can't trust him.
Couldn't agree more with the guy, honestly.
In a democracy, the government is supposed to represent the people. If the government has something to hide from its people and is doing things that it wouldn't want the people to know about, then how the fuck is that being representative of the people? There shouldn't be anything to hide, there shouldn't be any actions that would risk someone getting fired or having a bad reputation, there shouldn't need to be all this shit about the government doing things it shouldn't be doing in the first place.
Putting someone in jail for the charges raised against him doesn't really represent democracy or lack there of.
[QUOTE=JohnRockefeller;26643262]Putin isn't claiming his country is democratic
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
What Putin is basically saying is when it all boils down the east and west are basically the same, regardless of the bold claims of equality, liberty, and freedom in the west[/QUOTE]
But they're not, and coming from someone who has lived in Eastern Europe and spent a month in Russia I can say they're not even in the same ballpark. The East is like a crude mockery of the West; trying to conform but failing because of how backwards it is.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26643543]Except Russia and America aren't remotely the same in terms of those issues.[/QUOTE]
Not really. They're both neck deep in racism issues, hate crimes, suppression of free speech, etc.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Regulas021;26644002]But they're not, and coming from someone who has lived in Eastern Europe and spent a month in Russia I can say they're not even in the same ballpark. The East is like a crude mockery of the West; trying to conform but failing because of how backwards it is.[/QUOTE]
Do elaborate on how 'backwards' it is.
I like how right after Assange leaks that the US is spying on my government, the White House wants to charge Assange with espionage.
I don't care if he's right about this in a way, as an purely undemocratic politician, he should shut the fuck up.
He is using this to make himself look better. "You say I'm undemocratic all the time, now look at you, you're the real undemocratic assholes" in that sort of way.
And thus making all the undemocratic shit he is pulling in Russia seem insignificant in comparison. (i.e. "The west are the bad guys here, not us russians")
[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;26644517]I don't care if he's right about this in a way, as an purely undemocratic politician, he should shut the fuck up.
He is using this to make himself look better. "You say I'm undemocratic all the time, now look at you, you're the real undemocratic assholes" in that sort of way.
And thus making all the undemocratic shit he is pulling in Russia seem insignificant in comparison. (i.e. "The west are the bad guys here, not us russians")[/QUOTE]
Not really no, what he is saying is: "You say I'm undemocratic all the time, now look at you, you're just as bad".
[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;26644517]I don't care if he's right about this in a way, as an purely undemocratic politician, he should shut the fuck up.
He is using this to make himself look better. "You say I'm undemocratic all the time, now look at you, you're the real undemocratic assholes" in that sort of way.
And thus making all the undemocratic shit he is pulling in Russia seem insignificant in comparison. (i.e. "The west are the bad guys here, not us russians")[/QUOTE]
If you view him as an undemocratic politician because he kills journalists, too bad that only 3% of Russians agree, despite having easy access to such views via the press, cable TV and the Internet. The number of journalists killed under Putin (17) is less than under Yeltsin (30), and only five of them can be definitively linked to their professional work.
[QUOTE=Melnek;26644626]If you view him as an undemocratic politician because he kills journalists, too bad that only 3% of Russians agree, despite having easy access to such views via the press, cable TV and the Internet. The number of journalists killed under Putin (17) is less than under Yeltsin (30), and only five of them can be definitively linked to their professional work.[/QUOTE]
This isn't about him maybe being a little less undemocratic then Yeltsin (and after the fall of the soviet Union, it was pretty much anarchic there, so who knows why or if Yeltsin killed journalists) --> I don't know a lot about these killings of journalists in the name of either of them, be it Yeltsin or Putin. It's not what makes me think of them as undemocratic politicians
Maybe I also think Putin is undemocratic because he's rigging elections, giving himself power and generally doing whatever the hell he wants, all under the guise of democracy?
I don't think it's right that an blatant undemocratic person can get away with it and still make the people who are trying to be democratic look just as bad (or worse).
That's all I'm saying. Also what sort of pisses me off is that Putin is actually respected by a lot of people (even outside of his reign). It's not right.
only in britain
Didn't he rape someone or something though?
I mean, if thats true then...
I really dont see what part of this is dumb.
[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;26644773]This isn't about him maybe being a little less undemocratic then Yeltsin (and after the fall of the soviet Union, it was pretty much anarchic there, so who knows why or if Yeltsin killed journalists) --> I don't know a lot about these killings of journalists in the name of either of them, be it Yeltsin or Putin. It's not what makes me think of them as undemocratic politicians
Maybe I also think Putin is undemocratic because he's rigging elections, giving himself power and generally doing whatever the hell he wants, all under the guise of democracy?
I don't think it's right that an blatant undemocratic person can get away with it and still make the people who are trying to be democratic look just as bad (or worse).
That's all I'm saying. Also kinda pisses me off how Putin is actually respected by a lot of people (even outside of his reign).[/QUOTE]
I would like some sources and hard evidence to these apparently rigged elections.
The russian people have huge respect for Putin, and for good reasons, he pretty much shaped the economy to be on par with many world leaders in just over a decade since the collapse of the SU and the economic hell it left behind. The elections were in no way rigged, the people already loved him and his background (not counting his duty at the KGB obviously). Of course he is not a saint, but people forget that a pure president with no corruption in the government system whatsoever does not and probably will not exist.
[QUOTE=cyanidem;26644811]Didn't he rape someone or something though?
I mean, if thats true then...[/QUOTE]
somehow I doubt Assange was stupid enough to actually rape someone while at the same time knowing how vulnerable he was, what with the situation with Wikileaks and the USA and her allies.
He knew they just needed a really good reason to nab him, and rape is always a good reason if you think about it. When women come to the police to report a rape, they probably always believe them at first, no matter if the allegations are true or not.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Melnek;26644858][b]I would like some sources and hard evidence to these apparently rigged elections.[/b]
The russian people have huge respect for Putin, and for good reasons, he pretty much shaped the economy to be on par with many world leaders in just over a decade since the collapse of the SU and the economic hell it left behind. The elections were in no way rigged, the people already loved him and his background (not counting his duty at the KGB obviously). Of course he is not a saint, but people forget that a pure president with no corruption in the government system whatsoever does not and probably will not exist.[/QUOTE]
I don't have any proof or sources in my head right now, and am not really interested in researching this for you. I do remember that a lot of protests where violently suppressed during election time and oppositions leaders where suppressed by Mr. Putin. (no I don't know specifics, I get that you're not gonna be impressed by this. but it isn't my job to prove any of this is it?)
I'm not a blind supporter of everything the West does or claims to be, but Russia, and Putins System is seriously fucked up.
everything I said was just my opinion by the way. I'm not a political expert, I know that.
[QUOTE=Melnek;26644078]Not really. They're both neck deep in racism issues, hate crimes, suppression of free speech, etc.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
Do elaborate on how 'backwards' it is.[/QUOTE]
Because the US Government is often accused of orchestrating the deaths of anti-government protesters and journalists, isn't it. Come on - you can't claim that the US and Russia are on a par for citizen freedoms.
[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;26644903]
I don't have any proof or sources in my head right now, and am not really interested in researching this for you. I do remember that a lot of protests where violently suppressed during election time and oppositions leaders where suppressed by Mr. Putin. (no I don't know specifics, I get that you're not gonna be impressed by this. but it isn't my job to prove any of this is it?)
I'm not a blind supporter of everything the West does or claims to be, but Russia, and Putins System is seriously fucked up.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the protests were actually done by uneducated fools and people who blandly fallow the stream thinking they're doing the right thing by sticking it to "the man". The vast majority of them are holding protests for over a decade now about how the living standards are dropping (even though countless of studies has proven otherwise), and how the system is apparently corrupt and rigged. What most of them dont understand however is that it would be immensely hard for ANYONE to rebuild Russia after the fall of the SU. If they expect that living conditions to be on par with Hollywood throughout Russia in just 20 years after the collapse they have impossible and down right stupid expectations from their government. It might also be important to note that the vast majority of the people who attended the protests were youngsters.
And to be quite honest, if you actually DIDN'T chew up the constant flow of shit from the biased Western media, you would know that there is really, really nothing THAT horrible nor wrong with this so called "Putins system". Granted it's not the best government to have ever lived, but it is definitely somewhere in the middle and can just keep going upwards.
Putin, tellin' it like it is.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26645052]Because the US Government is often accused of orchestrating the deaths of anti-government protesters and journalists, isn't it. Come on - you can't claim that the US and Russia are on a par for citizen freedoms.[/QUOTE]
Just because you dont hear about it in the news does not make it none-existent. Have you ever stopped to consider how the US and generally Western media pretty much only criticizes other Eastern countries that "lack the freedom and democracy this great nation has"? . They never throw direct accusations to their own governments.
A nation as large and as diverse as the US can only reasonably have huge amounts of corruption and silent civilian suppression.
Tell me, if the "Collateral Murder" video was to be released by a well known Western media rather the Wikileaks, do you think the government will just let it slide? They will try to hunt down the person who was in charge of leaking it and make up ludacris accusations to take him down. Prime example here is Mr. Assange.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
EVERY country has corruption, some countries are just better at hiding it.
[QUOTE=JohnRockefeller;26643262]Putin isn't claiming his country is democratic
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
What Putin is basically saying is when it all boils down the east and west are basically the same, regardless of the bold claims of equality, liberty, and freedom in the west[/QUOTE]
Aka Pot calling the Kettle Black. :v:
Honestly, some accusations here towards the Russian people and government with no backed up evidence hints at russophobia, and biased views who still somehow remain intact from the Cold War era.
[QUOTE=Melnek;26645393]Honestly, some accusations here towards the Russian people and government with no backed up evidence hints at russophobia, and biased views who still somehow remain intact from the Cold War era.[/QUOTE]
Russia is corrupt as fuck, get over it.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=cyanidem;26644811]Didn't he rape someone or something though?
I mean, if thats true then...[/QUOTE]
Not using a condom is rape in sweden, so yes, he raped two women.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;26645935]Russia is corrupt as fuck, get over it.[/QUOTE]
So is every other country, deal with it.
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