11 states sue US govt over transgender bathroom directive
43 replies, posted
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/11-states-sue-obama-administration-over-transgender-bathroom-directive-n580331[/url]
[quote]Eleven states are suing the Obama administration over its sweeping directive requiring all public school districts to grant transgender students access to the bathrooms that correspond with their gender identities.
The lawsuit announced Wednesday also includes Oklahoma, Alabama, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Tennessee, Maine, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Utah and Georgia. The challenge follows a federal directive to U.S. schools this month to let transgender students use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.[/quote]
[quote]The lawsuit announced Wednesday also includes [b]Oklahoma[/b], Alabama, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Tennessee, Maine, [b]Oklahoma[/b], Louisiana, Utah and Georgia. The challenge follows a federal directive to U.S. schools this month to let transgender students use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.[/quote]
Good job editor
So that's only 9 states. What are the other two?
Wow, There pathetic why do they care so much where one person goes to the bathroom and the fun thing is because of there recent bullshit real women (by there standards i guess) are being harassed because of this bullshit which is the ironic part,.
Not surprised to see Alabama on that list.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50390644]Good job editor
So that's only 9 states. What are the other two?[/QUOTE]
Oklahoma and Oklahoma, can't you read?
I'm a little surprised to see Maine in there
How many public school students are transgender, anyway? Certainly that's too young to undergo reassignment?
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50390644]Good job editor
So that's only 9 states. What are the other two?[/QUOTE]
Texas and [I]I think[/I] [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/25/texas-governor-says-state-will-sue-obama-administration-over-bathroom-directive/]Arizona[/url].
All red states, pretty sad how the GOP is single handedly trying to hold us back in the 20th century.
Voting all blue or whoever has the best chance to not be GOP.
The really shitty thing about this entire controversy is that there's actually a really good point being made about states rights vs the rights of the federal government but the states really picked the wrong hill to die on
[QUOTE=OvB;50390686]How many public school students are transgender, anyway? Certainly that's too young to undergo reassignment?[/QUOTE]
It just further reinforces how ridiculous it is that states are actually suing the federal government over this, it's shameful. I don't care enough to Google the actual statistics right now, but Jesus Christ transgender people are such an extreme minority, who cares where they use the bathroom? It'll have virtually zero effect on anybody's lives except for the trans people, it's just amazing that [I]11[/I] states are actually trying to take legal action over this.
[QUOTE=ZachPL;50390697]All red states, pretty sad how the GOP is single handedly trying to hold us back in the 20th century.
Voting all blue or whoever has the best chance to not be GOP.[/QUOTE]
id wager that its more about federal overreach than trying to impose a certain set of values, though that probably also plays into it just a bit
either way this is stupid, the fact that the government can legislate this at all (banning or forcing) is absolutely ridiculous. is it hurting anyone? no? then let the business decide.
[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50390711]id wager that its more about federal overreach than trying to impose a certain set of values, though that probably also plays into it just a bit
either way this is stupid, the fact that the government can legislate this at all (banning or forcing) is absolutely ridiculous. is it hurting anyone? no? then let the business decide.[/QUOTE]
Public schools aren't a business though, they're public schools that are largely funded by the federal government (unless I'm confused). I figure if the states want federal funding for schools, they play by federal rules.
[QUOTE=OvB;50390686]How many public school students are transgender, anyway? Certainly that's too young to undergo reassignment?[/QUOTE]
From what I've read, the number is roughly 1 in 30,000.
It's so negligible, but these backwards states would rather pretend that they care about children and ignore the menagerie of actual issues that they need to pay attention to (infrastructure, education reform, police reform, agricultural subsidies, environmental health, etc.)
In other news, GOP lead states sue over extended federal protections to < 1% of the total student body in the nation
Got to love how Republicans are quaking over such a small amount of individuals
[QUOTE=TheTalon;50390659]
I'm a little surprised to see Maine in there[/QUOTE]
Given how Lepage has been running the state I'm not tbh, its kind of sad. If you want to see what America would be like run by a more incompetent Trump, look there.
[QUOTE=srobins;50390707]It just further reinforces how ridiculous it is that states are actually suing the federal government over this, it's shameful. I don't care enough to Google the actual statistics right now, but Jesus Christ transgender people are such an extreme minority, who cares where they use the bathroom? It'll have virtually zero effect on anybody's lives except for the trans people, it's just amazing that [I]11[/I] states are actually trying to take legal action over this.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, at least what I assume, is that transgender people use the bathroom that they identify with anyway, and always have been. I don't think your average person could tell if a person was transgender without really looking deep into their appearance which most people don't do in bathrooms. So unless you're at like, day one of your transition, where you still look like a 100% male/female, regardless of your identity, no one is going to know or care what bathroom you use. It's a fabricated issue.
[quote]The challenge follows a federal directive to U.S. schools this month to let transgender students use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.[/quote]
However, this issue in question is specifically about [I]public schools[/I]. I feel this changes things since I don't think it's common to undergo reassignment surgery at that age, so any transgender students using the bathrooms and locker rooms of their identity would be entering a room full of the opposite biological sex, which might not be aware or accepting of your situation. I feel like it opens the door for a whole world of additional bullying, harm, and ridicule for the transgender student. I absolutely think students should be able to get assistance and accommodation for their gender/sexuality differences, but I don't know if allowing students to use the bathroom of their identity is the right way to go about that.
This specific issue is absolutely about protecting children, since it's specifically about children. I think the best course of action would be requiring public schools to have those family/neutral/faculty bathrooms and changing rooms available to trans-gendered students, so they're not exposed to ridicule by their fellow students. Because we can't expect school kids to be accommodating. In fact, school kids are terrible. Having grown up as a boy in the boys locker rooms/bathrooms, that's not a good place for a trans-gendered student that likely already suffers from harassment and bullying. To me it sounds like it's inviting more of it.
For the record, I'm disagreeing with the action by the administration, [I]not[/I] agreeing with the action by the republicans.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the whole thing.
[QUOTE=OvB;50390799]The thing is, at least what I assume, is that transgender people use the bathroom that they identify with anyway, and always have been. I don't think your average person could tell if a person was transgender without really looking deep into their appearance which most people don't do in bathrooms. So unless you're at like, day one of your transition, where you still look like a 100% male/female, regardless of your identity, no one is going to know or care what bathroom you use. It's a fabricated issue.
However, this issue in question is specifically about [I]public schools[/I]. I feel this changes things since I don't think it's common to undergo reassignment surgery at that age, so any transgender students using the bathrooms and locker rooms of their identity would be entering a room full of the opposite biological sex, which might not be aware or accepting of your situation. I feel like it opens the door for a whole world of additional bullying, harm, and ridicule for the transgender student. I absolutely think students should be able to get assistance and accommodation for their gender/sexuality differences, but I don't know if allowing students to use the bathroom of their identity is the right way to go about that.
This specific issue is absolutely about protecting children, since it's specifically about children. I think the best course of action would be requiring public schools to have those family/neutral/faculty bathrooms and changing rooms available to trans-gendered students, so they're not exposed to ridicule by their fellow students. Because we can't expect school kids to be accommodating. In fact, school kids are terrible. Having grown up as a boy in the boys locker rooms/bathrooms, that's not a good place for a trans-gendered student that likely already suffers from harassment and bullying. To me it sounds like it's inviting more of it.
For the record, I'm disagreeing with the action by the administration, [I]not[/I] agreeing with the action by the republicans.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
I get what you're saying, I feel like it should just be up to the student at that point. If they feel going into the women's room is going to do more harm than going into the men's, let them in the men's room. Either way, being a young transgender person is going to be rough and you're going to face discrimination and bullying at some point, it's inevitable. I figure the least we can do is give them some reasonable amount of control over their situation so they can do their best to avoid hazardous environments.
[QUOTE=OvB;50390799]The thing is, at least what I assume, is that transgender people use the bathroom that they identify with anyway, and always have been. I don't think your average person could tell if a person was transgender without really looking deep into their appearance which most people don't do in bathrooms. So unless you're at like, day one of your transition, where you still look like a 100% male/female, regardless of your identity, no one is going to know or care what bathroom you use. It's a fabricated issue.
However, this issue in question is specifically about [I]public schools[/I]. I feel this changes things since I don't think it's common to undergo reassignment surgery at that age, so any transgender students using the bathrooms and locker rooms of their identity would be entering a room full of the opposite biological sex, which might not be aware or accepting of your situation. I feel like it opens the door for a whole world of additional bullying, harm, and ridicule for the transgender student. I absolutely think students should be able to get assistance and accommodation for their gender/sexuality differences, but I don't know if allowing students to use the bathroom of their identity is the right way to go about that.
This specific issue is absolutely about protecting children, since it's specifically about children. I think the best course of action would be requiring public schools to have those family/neutral/faculty bathrooms and changing rooms available to trans-gendered students, so they're not exposed to ridicule by their fellow students. Because we can't expect school kids to be accommodating. In fact, school kids are terrible. Having grown up as a boy in the boys locker rooms/bathrooms, that's not a good place for a trans-gendered student that likely already suffers from harassment and bullying. To me it sounds like it's inviting more of it.
For the record, I'm disagreeing with the action by the administration, [I]not[/I] agreeing with the action by the republicans.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
Imagine a transgender girl (with a penis) in a high school, expressing herself in the way she dresses entirely femininely. This student, whether or not other students actually realized the other is transgender, would not be safe in male lockerrooms and bathrooms. Violently unsafe especially, if the boys knew she was transgender.
Having family bathrooms [I]available[/I] is great, but not as a requirement for transgender students to use. That ostracises the student as an [I]it[/I]. Not having [I]any[/I] restroom other than the one you may get beaten up in [I]or killed in[/I] (the ones matching the birth certificate) is a cruel undue stress to transgendered individuals. Speaking beyond K-12 schooling, these individuals have to plan every public day of their lives around worrying when and where they can go to the bathroom. It isn't right.
I personally believe if someone is uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a transgendered individual (who they may well not realize is transgender; just look at the article where a walmart shopper raged at a trans person who actually wasn't even trans), then that person should be the one to use the family restroom, not the transgendered individual.
Regarding age and treatment: A young age is the [I]best[/I] time to start hormone treatment; starting after or late in puberty causes [I]irreparable[/I] changes in body structure that would have been prevented, leading to lifelong gender dysphoria and anxiety, a high contributor to their suicide rate.
Nobody is saying to just take a fickle child's word for it [I]immediately[/I] when they tell their parents they are transgender; if we had proper medical care without politics, doctors and psychologists could make the final diagnosis. As far as taking a child's word for it is concerned, consider that homosexual and bisexual people more often than not are aware of their sexuality from an early age.
[QUOTE=Last or First;50390696]Texas and [I]I think[/I] [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/25/texas-governor-says-state-will-sue-obama-administration-over-bathroom-directive/]Arizona[/url].[/QUOTE]
Confirmed this has no grounds then. Texas sues everything about the federal government.
It's sad how it's always men (in the case of biological sex) who receive more hatred for breaking gendered norms than women. All these controversies are centered around "men" entering the women's bathroom. Transgender people in general have it harsh but transwomen receive a lot more hatred for breaking gendered norms because of awful ideas of masculinity, Same reason gay men are less acceptable than lesbian women to some. Transmen are largely ignored (which is both sort of a boon and a curse), although that isn't to say they don't receive hatred.
A good part of me is glad that I'm gonna be leaving the US soon. The situation for trans peope seems to bw getting worse
[QUOTE=bitches;50390867]Imagine a transgender girl (with a penis) in a high school, expressing herself in the way she dresses entirely femininely. This student, whether or not other students actually realized the other is transgender, would not be safe in male lockerrooms and bathrooms. Violently unsafe especially, if the boys knew she was transgender.[/quote]
That's sort of the point I was trying to make, though the other way around. A transgender boy (female genitalia) would not be safe in a boys lockerroom, and likely in danger. Even moreso I'd think in high school. It would be nice if we could expect students to be accepting, but we can't, and they likely won't. I feel like the transgendered student is going to be at risk. It has to come down to where will the student be the safest.
It would be interesting to hear first hand accounts of transgender people that grew up dealing with these things.
Snip double toast
[QUOTE=Kyle902;50390971]A good part of me is glad that I'm gonna be leaving the US soon. The situation for trans peope seems to bw getting worse[/QUOTE]
How is it getting worse when there's literally a federal mandate pushing for transgender rights in public schools?
[QUOTE=srobins;50390978]How is it getting worse when there's literally a federal mandate pushing for transgender rights in public schools?[/QUOTE]
I shouldve said its gonna get worse before it gets better.
[QUOTE=OvB;50390976]That's sort of the point I was trying to make, though the other way around. A transgender boy (female genitalia) would not be safe in a boys lockerroom, and likely in danger. Even moreso I'd think in high school. It would be nice if we could expect students to be accepting, but we can't, and they likely won't. I feel like the transgendered student is going to be at risk. It has to come down to where will the student be the safest.
It would be interesting to hear first hand accounts of transgender people that grew up dealing with these things.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like we both agree with srobins, then.
[QUOTE=srobins;50390817]I get what you're saying, I feel like it should just be up to the student at that point. If they feel going into the women's room is going to do more harm than going into the men's, let them in the men's room. Either way, being a young transgender person is going to be rough and you're going to face discrimination and bullying at some point, it's inevitable. I figure the least we can do is give them some reasonable amount of control over their situation so they can do their best to avoid hazardous environments.[/QUOTE]
What's this, bigots in the south are continuing to be bigots? What a surprise!
At least my state isn't on the list. I'm proud of you, Kentucky. :>
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;50391065]What's this, bigots in the south are continuing to be bigots? What a surprise!
At least my state isn't on the list. I'm proud of you, Kentucky. :>[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't be too hasty your governor is a moron, who already has promised to do stupid partisan stuff that will cost your state tons of cash and waste resources
I expect Ohio will probably sign on too soon since kasich wants to be on the ticket
I don't care which bathroom people use. However, there is SOME weight to their arguments.
[QUOTE]The plaintiffs, the suit states, "stand behind the singular principle that the solemn duty of the Federal Executive is to enforce the law of the land, and not rewrite it by administrative fiat." [/QUOTE]
Title IX says this:
[QUOTE](a) Prohibition against discrimination; exceptions. No person in the United States shall, [B]on the basis of sex[/B], be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance, except that:[/QUOTE]
And then goes on to list exceptions to this amendment. Note the use of the word "sex", not "gender".
Obama's administration produced a guideline, which basically says that "gender identity" is also protected under this law. This is, of course, completely and absolutely false as the law says nothing about gender or gender identity. The bill specifically protects against discrimination based on "sex".
So in a sense, the states DO have a case against the administration for overreach, because the executive branch was created to enforce law, not change law as it sees fit, and this could be interpreted as an attempt to change/create law.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50391211]I wouldn't be too hasty your governor is a moron, who already has promised to do stupid partisan stuff that will cost your state tons of cash and waste resources [/QUOTE]
Yeah, he is a moron, but from what I've seen in the short time living here is that most of the state thinks he's a moron and he will be removed from office fairly soon. There's already stickers and signs calling for it, haha.
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