Accused Somalian war criminal now works as an airport guard in Virginia
27 replies, posted
[img]http://i.imgur.com/q92RO6V.jpg[/img]
[url]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/yusuf-abdi-ali-airport-guard/index.html[/url]
[quote]The local and federal agencies handling American airports could not explain Thursday why an accused war criminal was hired as security guard at Dulles International Airport despite the fact that authorities knew about the serious allegations against him.
As CNN exclusively first reported on Wednesday, Yusuf Abdi Ali, who is accused of committing atrocities while he was a military commander during Somalia's brutal civil war, has been living outside Washington, D.C., for about 20 years. A CNN camera captured him guarding a security exit where ticketed passengers leave the airport.
Ali and his lawyer have denied all the allegations against him. When CNN approached Ali outside his apartment in Alexandria, Virginia, he declined an interview, saying, "To tell you the truth, all is false. Baseless."
When CNN asked how he was hired, each one of several federal agencies confirmed it knew about Ali's past but refused to give a reason why his background didn't raise red flags.[/quote]
Is "innocent until proven guilty" still a thing?
here's some more context from a human rights organization
[quote]Early one morning in 1987, soldiers under Tukeh’s command arrested Farhan Warfaa and several of his neighbors in what is now Somaliland. Tukeh was one of the most ruthless commanders of the 20-year Siad Barré dictatorship. Under Tukeh’s supervision, Warfaa was repeatedly tortured and interrogated.
After three excruciating months, Tukeh personally interrogated Warfaa. He shot Warfaa five times at close range. Assuming Warfaa was dead, Tukeh ordered his soldiers to get rid of the body. Miraculously, Warfaa survived and was smuggled to safety. He was just 16 years old.
When Siad Barré was eventually overthrown in 1991, Tukeh fled to Canada and later became a permanent resident of the United States.
...
Meanwhile, CJA continues to support efforts to identify victims buried in mass graves throughout Somaliland, including those believed to contain the remains of people killed in mass executions Tukeh ordered.
[/quote]
[url]http://cja.org/what-we-do/litigation/warfaa-v-ali-col-tukeh/[/url]
article from when he was arrested for lying about his past to get into the US:
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/28/world/ex-somali-army-officer-is-arrested-in-virginia.html[/url]
[quote]''The information that we obtained indicates that this person was directly involved in the incidents that led to the deaths of thousands of people,'' Mr. Bergeron said.[/quote]
Fucking leave the dude alone, Christ. If they're gonna charge him for what happened 20 years ago then charge him, but if not then why shouldn't the guy be allowed to have a job and live his life?
[Editline].[/Editline]
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50446021]Is "innocent until proven guilty" still a thing?[/QUOTE]
Seriously. It's not the goddamn media's job to prosecute someone.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50446028]Fucking leave the dude alone, Christ. If they're gonna charge him for what happened 20 years ago then charge him, but if not then why shouldn't the guy be allowed to have a job and live his life?[/QUOTE]
[quote=CNN]There is no criminal court in the world that can try him for war crimes, as none have the necessary jurisdiction.[/quote]
wait what?
i thought the ICC had defacto authority to trial war criminals especially if theyre residing in countries that have no interest in protecting them
i guess there probably isnt enough evidence to convict him or he'd be shipped to some tribunal somewhere by now
[QUOTE=Sableye;50446390]wait what?
i thought the ICC had defacto authority to trial war criminals especially if theyre residing in countries that have no interest in protecting them[/QUOTE]
I find it hard to believe that the same organization planning on prosecuting members of the Syrian regime lacks the ability to prosecute Somali war criminals.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50446403]I find it hard to believe that the same organization planning on prosecuting members of the Syrian regime lacks the ability to prosecute Somali war criminals.[/QUOTE]
its litterally in the charter of the ICC, its a court system that has jurisdiction against war criminals local governments refuse to bring cases to. the UN has to start an investigation for the ICC to have authority.
my guess is he cut a deal sometime ago
[QUOTE=Sableye;50446390]wait what?
i thought the ICC had defacto authority to trial war criminals especially if theyre residing in countries that have no interest in protecting them
i guess there probably isnt enough evidence to convict him or he'd be shipped to some tribunal somewhere by now[/QUOTE]
Somalia would either have to join the ICC or the UN Security Council would have to refer the case to them, I think, and it's not high-profile enough for that to have happened
Wasn't convicted and has been apparently living without issue for two decades. What is the issue?
[QUOTE=GunFox;50446980]Wasn't convicted and has been apparently living without issue for two decades. What is the issue?[/QUOTE]
He wasn't convicted because he wasn't tried, which is the problem.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50447019]He wasn't convicted because he wasn't tried, which is the problem.[/QUOTE]
Who the hell cares. They cant prove a thing and as far as the US legal system cares, hes in the clear.
[quote]The MWAA said Ali had undergone an FBI criminal background check and a Transportation Security Administration threat assessment, as mandated by federal law for all security guards who hold badges.
The FBI explained it only runs fingerprints through a domestic criminal background system and sends the results back.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50447138]Who the hell cares. They cant prove a thing and as far as the US legal system cares, hes in the clear.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/us/accused-war-criminal-works-at-dulles-airport/[/url]
Mass graves, dozens of witnesses with detailed accounts of the crimes. Should at least be enough for a trial. This isn't an evidence problem, it's an issue with court jurisdiction that's been shifting back and forth for the past 20 years.
This makes me wonder if this means we can't trial neither any somalian pirate.
On the flip-side, would anyone really start shit at an airport knowing it's guarded by an accused Somalian war criminal?
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;50448925]This makes me wonder if this means we can't trial neither any somalian pirate.[/QUOTE]
Probably because we shoot to kill in most cases
[QUOTE=GunFox;50446980]Wasn't convicted and has been apparently living without issue for two decades. [b]What is the issue?[/b][/QUOTE]
What is the issue?
This type of thinking terrifies me. This man is a war criminal. His factual innocence is out of the question. We know he was in control of death squads and ordered tortures and executions. We've found his mass graves, and his living victims. The evidence categorically indicts this man. We know he committed these crimes
The ISSUE is that he hasn't faced justice for his crimes against humanity. He needs to be extradited to the Netherlands immediately and explain his wartime actions to the international community. Perhaps he will find a defense that will find him innocent of any crime against humanity - perhaps his tortures and extrajudicial executions were actually legal. But he needs to be found innocent or guilty. There is no other option. He must stand trial.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50446028][b]Fucking leave the dude alone, Christ.[/b] If they're gonna charge him for what happened 20 years ago then charge him, but if not then why shouldn't the guy be allowed to have a job and live his life?
[Editline].[/Editline]
Seriously. It's not the goddamn media's job to prosecute someone.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely not. This man needs to go to court and either prove his innocence or accept his guilt.
This general opinion that I've detected on Facepunch, where the passage of time somehow absolves people of guilt for their actions, worries me deeply. I've seen it before in threads in SH where the Israelis abduct and put Nazi guards on trial when they're in their 90s, and I can understand how people can think that that is overboard [sp]even though I think they ought to stand trial because the statute of limitations on crimes against humanity do not run out[/sp], but how can anyone see this headline, read and understand this story, and believe that this man does NOT need to explain his actions?
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;50448925]This makes me wonder if this means we can't trial neither any somalian pirate.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduwali_Muse"]Abduwali Muse[/URL], sole survivor of the Maersk Alabama hijacking, was sentenced to 33 years in an American federal court. The hijacking occured just barely outside of Somali territorial waters.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50451346]Absolutely not. This man needs to go to court and [B]either prove his innocence or accept his guilt[/B].[/QUOTE]
Think you have that backwards mate.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50447138]Who the hell cares. They cant prove a thing and as far as the US legal system cares, hes in the clear.[/QUOTE]
The [i]U.S.[/i] legal system doesn't care. They put him through a [i]domestic[/i] criminal background check. The crimes he committed took place in Somalia, not in the United States, so a domestic criminal background check means nothing. Any war criminal who left their home country and went to the US would pass a domestic criminal background check.
The issues is that a nearly definitely guilty man got away with mass murder scot-free, simply because Somalia is too low on the radar for the ICC to get involved. This man should be sent to the Hague, not working in an airport. I don't care how long ago it was - there is no statute of limitations on mass murder and ethnic violence.
On the bright side, the [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/02/somali-torture-lawsuit-yusuf-abdi-ali-virginia-court"]U.S. judicial system is working on getting him to trial for torture[/URL]. The state of Virginia denied him immunity, but also threw out the war crime accusations. Even then, this should not be something handled by the United States. This man committed war crimes while working for the military of a sovereign nation - his crimes should be judged at the Hague by the ICC, not in local US courts. I hope the US takes action and refers his case to the ICC - but that seems unlikely, considering the US backed out of the ICC two years after joining it.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50455943]MAKE necessary jurisdiction then so he can go to court. Until then, media shouldnt be allowed to call for a lynching of an old security guard at an airport. That is what people oppose, not the fact that he is free of trial. That is a shame, but media shouldnt be doing this either.
[editline]4th June 2016[/editline]
Also I dont recall a FP thread over Israeli abducted 90 year olds, only German 90 yos in Germany tried by Germans.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction[/url]
Also, Israelis have a history of abducting Nazis and putting them on trial: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann[/url]
[editline]4th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=shad0w440;50455726]Think you have that backwards mate.[/QUOTE]
When factual innocence has been proven incorrect, it lies on the defense to prove that the individual was justified in taking their action by offering an explanation.
Hey neat this bodes well for my TSA application.
If a Somalian war criminal can get a job with them, then surely a white american without any criminal record whatsoever can :v:
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50455943]MAKE necessary jurisdiction then so he can go to court. Until then, media shouldnt be allowed to call for a lynching of an old security guard at an airport. That is what people oppose, not the fact that he is free of trial. That is a shame, but media shouldnt be doing this either.
[editline]4th June 2016[/editline]
Also I dont recall a FP thread over Israeli abducted 90 year olds, only German 90 yos in Germany tried by Germans.[/QUOTE]
You can't make up jurisdiction. Jurisdiction ONLY STEMS FROM THE PEOPLE LOCATED IN THE REGION.
This isn't saying that you have to accept wartimes, but rather that it isn't a legal matter. There were no laws or authority preventing what they were doing at the time. If you don't like what this person was doing, and you lack jurisdiction, then deploy the military. The military exists for that reason.
This "oh just make the jurisdiction up" deal is disgusting and an insult to legal systems everywhere that operate under real jurisdiction.
[QUOTE=GunFox;50457856]You can't make up jurisdiction. Jurisdiction ONLY STEMS FROM THE PEOPLE LOCATED IN THE REGION.
This isn't saying that you have to accept wartimes, but rather that it isn't a legal matter. There were no laws or authority preventing what they were doing at the time. If you don't like what this person was doing, and you lack jurisdiction, then deploy the military. The military exists for that reason.
This "oh just make the jurisdiction up" deal is disgusting and an insult to legal systems everywhere that operate under real jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction[/url]
Jurisdiction already exists. See the first and third paragraphs.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50459209][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction[/url]
Jurisdiction already exists. See the first and third paragraphs.[/QUOTE]
Not how jurisdiction works. Jurisdiction is a check on legal systems to ensure that they do not overstep their bounds. It extends from the people up.
Universal jurisdiction is something people made up to make themselves feel better about exerting control over foreign nations. It makes assassinations and imprisonments much more palatable to the common man.
The reality is this: If you think someone is doing something wrong in another country, and that something is truly grievous, THEN KILL THEM. Don't have a sham trial that has zero chain of custody, evidence gathering procedures, proper crime scenes, or a legal system that the accused is even familiar with. Just put a bullet in them. The trials are fakes. You can't have a trial without all the bells and whistles that come with it. Be honest and assassinate the person doing the terrible things. You don't have the jurisdiction, but you DO have the power. Whatever you do, don't mix up power with jurisdiction.
Fucking universal jurisdiction. What? Do we own the world now? I missed that memo.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50457170]The [i]U.S.[/i] legal system doesn't care. They put him through a [i]domestic[/i] criminal background check. The crimes he committed took place in Somalia, not in the United States, so a domestic criminal background check means nothing. Any war criminal who left their home country and went to the US would pass a domestic criminal background check.
The issues is that a nearly definitely guilty man got away with mass murder scot-free, simply because Somalia is too low on the radar for the ICC to get involved. This man should be sent to the Hague, not working in an airport. I don't care how long ago it was - there is no statute of limitations on mass murder and ethnic violence.
On the bright side, the [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/02/somali-torture-lawsuit-yusuf-abdi-ali-virginia-court"]U.S. judicial system is working on getting him to trial for torture[/URL]. The state of Virginia denied him immunity, but also threw out the war crime accusations. Even then, this should not be something handled by the United States. This man committed war crimes while working for the military of a sovereign nation - his crimes should be judged at the Hague by the ICC, not in local US courts. I hope the US takes action and refers his case to the ICC - but that seems unlikely, considering the US backed out of the ICC two years after joining it.[/QUOTE]
so all this boils down to that hes still innocent and eligible for work at an airport.
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