• Seattle lawmakers vote to change name of Columbus Day holiday
    212 replies, posted
To Indigenous Peoples' Day... [url]http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0HV27E20141006?irpc=932[/url]
I've been a proponent of changing the holiday for a long time. Columbus made a historic landing in Caribbean, but that shouldn't exempt him from modern moral examination. He was a brutal slave driver and plunderer who had his crews cut the hands off women and children for failing to scavenge enough gold for him.
change it to national voting day please
Name it national "hey kids take a day off from school" day
Even the Spanish punished Columbus for being so brutal. There's no real reason to continue honoring him.
There really isn't a reason not to do this.
thanks columbus. If it wasnt for you this land would just be used by the smoking tent people
We should call it Leif Ericsson day.
Watch out everyone, [b]important[/b] decisions are being made here.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;46169290]There really isn't a reason not to do this.[/QUOTE] Conservatives... (So much disappointment in the knowledge that this idea will probably not make national headway)
Make it [URL=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomé_de_las_Casas]Bartolome[/URL] Day. [editline]7th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;46169418]We should call it Leif Ericsson day.[/QUOTE] Or this would be fine too.
I hope that one day this goes nationwide. Good on Seattle for for stepping up to the plate in the meantime, like Minneapolis did back in April. "Celebrate Native American Genocide Day" doesn't quite roll off the tongue anyways. As a person of Native descent this stuff is kind of personal to me because their causes tend to fall to the wayside as there simply aren't enough of us left to be heard, or those of those who care to be heard, and tons of stereotypes, misconceptions, and ignorance concerning the people and culture have become such an integral part of Americana that a lot of people never really questioned certain things, at least not until recently. The Western, one of the classic genres in film and as old as the medium itself, was up until like the 70s predominantly focused on either slaughtering the savage Injun menace, or starred Italians as one of the few noble savages doing Tonto-speak and helping the white savior with whatever he needed. The Redskins is a racist name for a national football team that continues to exist, in the year 2014, and is actively defended by white people who are 1/32nd Cherokee so they can say it's not racist at all, even though any other name would be fine. Columbus Day is a national holiday even though by all accounts he's, well, kind of a dick. I don't even think it's intentional racism in most of these cases. Simply a byproduct of ignorance and acceptance. Ideally, I would like to live in an America where people are a bit more aware and sensitive to the long history of genocide and displacement, which was at times government sanctioned, as well as the continued marginalization of a people who were here for a millennia before any of the settlers showed up. Stuff like this is a good first step towards that, I think. I know people dumb the OP, and think this is incredibly silly or something small that it's not even news, or they want to make jokes about it, which is all fine, but I would like for you to be understanding about it and to realize how it actually kind of [I]is[/I] important. My feelings aren't hurt by any of this, and I am not resentful towards anyone or anything over it, even if I tend to write somewhat long posts on the matter whenever it comes up, because I do understand why things are the way they are. I myself actively rejected my own ethnicity when I was younger out of some twisted understanding of what it meant to be "Native American/Indian" based solely on what I saw on TV and in the movies, until I realized how ridiculous it was that I was some brown motherfucker calling myself white whenever someone asked if I was Native :v:.
Am I the only one grateful that my ancestors were invaded by Europeans? - United everyone so they would stop fighting eachother - Modern technology - Greater lifespan - Don't have to worry about food Thank you based Europeans.
[QUOTE=Winner;46169610]literally what[/QUOTE] There are benefits to European imperialism/colonization which far out way the hardships suffered by my ancestors. I would not sacrifice the actions of the Europeans for anything. Without European action: • Japan/China/Korea would have never modernized. • Aztecs/Africans would have continued slavery practices forever. • Without European intervention slavery would have continued not only within African society, but also by the empires of the Middle East/North Africa • Africa would be even less under-developed • There would be less common languages I could go on And I'd be living in a Baltic forest without electricity or Facepunch to cheer me up.
[QUOTE=MillySoose;46169649]There are benefits to European imperialism/colonization which far out way the hardships suffered by my ancestors. I would not sacrifice the actions of the Europeans for anything. Without European action: • Japan/China/Korea would have never modernized. • Aztecs/Africans would have continued slavery practices forever. • Without European intervention slavery would have continued not only within African society, but also by the empires of the Middle East/North Africa • Africa would be even less under-developed • There would be less common languages I could go on And I'd be living in a Baltic forest without electricity or Facepunch to cheer me up.[/QUOTE] Every positive thing that you mentioned would have already happened with globalization and trade. And the reason parts of Africa are such a clusterfuck right now is BECAUSE of European imperialism.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;46169418]We should call it Leif Ericsson day.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;9YqehGlg6m8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YqehGlg6m8[/video]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46169687]Every positive thing that you mentioned would have already happened with globalization and trade. And the reason parts of Africa are such a clusterfuck right now is BECAUSE of European imperialism.[/QUOTE] Probably not and not in anytime soon. For example, China is just getting things like the internet. Imagine if they didn't have all the prior advancements brought to them by Europeans. Europeans gave the world a crash course in civilization and I love it. Also Africa has always been a shithole. The only good parts are those that had a strong European/Mediterranean presence (north africa, south africa and madagascar) And I want you to explain the following : Liberia/Ethiopia. Never colonized yet they are just as bad as the rest of Africa. And African slavery existed before far before Euroepans. In fact it was invented by Africans. The standard of life has gotten better because of Europeans. Globalization would not have happened as quickly without Europeans setting up colonies.
Facepunch is amazing. I never thought I'd see someone unironically using the White Man's Burden argument in the 21st century outside of Stormfront, and yet here we are. That said: Good on Seattle. Columbus is important from a historical standpoint, sure- his "discovery" of the New World gave western Europe something to fight over for the next few centuries- but the various atrocities he committed in the name of gold are nothing to commemorate.
[QUOTE=TMBGFan;46169756]Facepunch is amazing. I never thought I'd see someone unironically using the White Man's Burden argument in the 21st century outside of Stormfront, and yet here we are.[/QUOTE] Prove me wrong. The rest of the world had just as long to develop civilization. It just happens that Europeans did this first. If Africans had developed civilization they would have done the exact same thing, and we'd have the "Black Man's Burden" to think about.
[QUOTE=MillySoose;46169712]For example, China is just getting things like the internet[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_China]what?[/url]
[QUOTE=krutomisi;46169774][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_China]what?[/url][/QUOTE] As in it's only become popular within the last 7 years. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_China#mediaviewer/File:P1994-2011.gif[/url] compare this to Japan which had far more European influence.
[QUOTE=MillySoose;46169649] • Aztecs/Africans would have continued slavery practices forever. • Without European intervention slavery would have continued not only within African society, but also by the empires of the Middle East/North Africa [/QUOTE] literally conjecture
can we rename it to Da Gama day? as in, an explorer who wasn't a total joke of a human [editline]7th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Winner;46169782]- europe did not help africa in any way - they increased slave trade and caused lots of bloody conflict due to colonialism[/QUOTE] infrastructure is generally held as an objective benefit to africa, however obviously congolese people would not be very happy if you asked them to be thankful for leopold II [editline]7th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MillySoose;46169712]Probably not and not in anytime soon. For example, China is just getting things like the internet. Imagine if they didn't have all the prior advancements brought to them by Europeans. Europeans gave the world a crash course in civilization and I love it. Also Africa has always been a shithole. The only good parts are those that had a strong European/Mediterranean presence (north africa, south africa and madagascar) And I want you to explain the following : Liberia/Ethiopia. Never colonized yet they are just as bad as the rest of Africa. And African slavery existed before far before Euroepans. In fact it was invented by Africans. The standard of life has gotten better because of Europeans. Globalization would not have happened as quickly without Europeans setting up colonies.[/QUOTE] uh, your grasp on history has probably come from r/redpill so idk if it is worth responding to this with any effort
[QUOTE=Winner;46169782]i'm pretty sure you're just a delusional racist - the chinese were pretty fucking well off technologically without europeans - europeans were [I]way[/I] worse when it came to slavery - europe did not help africa in any way - they increased slave trade and caused lots of bloody conflict due to colonialism[/QUOTE] [quote] the chinese were pretty fucking well off technologically without europeans [/quote] This isn't 1000 AD. The Chinese got completely destroyed in the Opium wars. Their government was outdated and inefficient, and their world outlook entirely centered upon thmselves. The closest they got was the voyages of Zheng He which brought absolutely nothing to China because all they cared about was wooing the East Africans with their relatively superior Chinese technology that they already possessed. [quote] europeans were way worse when it came to slavery [/quote] European slavery was only worse within gold/silver mines in the Americas. The Africans had been enslaving other Africans to do basically the same work, but in worse climates and for thousands of years. The empires in the middle east not only enslaved millions of women to work as sex slaves, but also slavs from the black sea area. [quote] europe did not help africa in any way [/quote] Africans were sitting on their country for 4000 years and never established advanced civilization. North Africa does not count for historical and geographic reasons, and may as well be considered part of the middle-east To think that these people would have developed modern civilization in time is ludicrous. Look at the few people's who were never touched by Europeans. They are no more advanced now than they were thousands of years ago. Also imagine an Africa without cars or railroads. Without any European intervention. In fact imagine the entire world like that. . [editline]6th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;46169783]literally conjecture[/QUOTE] Read up. Slavery under the Ottoman empire would not have ended if not for European colonization of East Africa and imperialism in Slavic lands by Europeans. Also they signed the Brussels Conference Act of 1890, created by Europeans to help end the slave trade. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#Decline_and_suppression_of_Ottoman_slavery[/url]
[QUOTE=MillySoose;46169856] Africans were sitting on their country for 4000 years and never established advanced civilization. North Africa does not count for historical and geographic reasons, and may as well be considered part of the middle-east [B]To think that these people would have developed modern civilization in time is ludicrous. [/B]Look at the few people's who were never touched by Europeans. They are no more advanced now than they were thousands of years ago. [/quote] this sounds pretty casually racist to me, anyone else?
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46169913]this sounds pretty casually racist to me, anyone else?[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_Islands[/url] is a good example. These people had no contact with westerners, but never created any real civilization beyond tribes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples[/url]
[QUOTE=MillySoose;46169921][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_Islands[/url][/QUOTE] yes what you're implying is "africans don't have the ability to establish advanced civilization" that's pretty racist to me
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46169928]yes what you're implying is "africans don't have the ability to establish advanced civilization" that's pretty racist to me[/QUOTE] No there have been successful African civilizations. Mali is a good example but that fell apart far before Europeans arrived. The point I am making is it was unlikely that they would have Established states comparable to the European colonial nations in the same amount of time.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46169913]this sounds pretty casually racist to me, anyone else?[/QUOTE]It's more ethnocentricism and ignorance than anything else.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46169913]this sounds pretty casually racist to me, anyone else?[/QUOTE] He's not well versed in African history, too: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire[/url] I'm waiting for the part where he starts the "I'm a race-realist" bit in the next installment of MillySoose and the the white man's burden.
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