• (UK) Government Defeated 309-305 on EU Withdrawal Bill Parliamentary Oversight Amendment
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[quote=Independent]The Government has been defeated by Conservative rebels and Labour MPs in a critical vote on its key piece of Brexit legislation. MPs amended her EU Withdrawal Bill against her will, so guaranteeing Parliament a "meaningful" vote on any Brexit deal she agrees with Brussels. Ms May's whips applied heavy pressure on Conservative rebels who remained defiant in the Commons throughout the day and in the end the Government was defeated by 309 votes to 305, a margin of just four votes. Justice Minister Dominic Raab also sought to pick rebels off with concessions he offered from the Commons floor, but not enough backed down for Ms May to avoid her first defeat over the legislation. The setback is a major blow to Ms May' political authority, underlining how fragile her parliamentary majority is and also signalling that those who disagree with her Brexit plans are ready cross a line in opposing their own leader. The Government remained defient following the defeat, with a spokeswoman saying: "We are disappointed that Parliament has voted for this amendment despite the strong assurances that we have set out. "We are as clear as ever that this Bill, and the powers within it, are essential. "This amendment does not prevent us from preparing our statute book for exit day. We will now determine whether further changes are needed to the Bill to ensure it fulfils its vital purpose." Conservative former attorney general Dominic Grieve led the rebellion via his amendment seven, which would require any Brexit deal to be approved by a separate act of Parliament before it could be implemented. He warned ministers they had "run out of road" and drew upon Winston Churchill's spirit as he said he intended to put "country before his party". Ex-cabinet minister Nicky Morgan, among Conservatives who refused to budge, said: "Tonight Parliament took control of the EU Withdrawal process."'[/quote] Tl;dr enough Tories finally caved in and flipped for the amendment to go through narrowly [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-withdrawal-bill-tory-rebels-a8108621.html[/url]
Makes a change that some Tory MPs have put country before party, a very good outcome and I hope more things like this happen in the future.
Whichever way you see this, it's great that politicians aren't just voting along border lines. I'd rather have avoid the completely partisan politics we see in the states.
For someone from the US, what does this mean?
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52973774]For someone from the US, what does this mean?[/QUOTE] Basically means parliament now have a legal guarantee of a vote on the Brexit deal, whereas before this vote was only """""promised""""" by May.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52973774]For someone from the US, what does this mean?[/QUOTE] it just means the terms of Brexit have to be cleared with a majority of Parliament first, which means the left-wing members of Parliament have a say in it. and also that conservative cunts who support a bad deal can now be held directly responsible if they don't vote it down
AFAIK it's still not clear what happens if Parliament votes down the final deal - do we crash out to WTO rules? There'd be no time to negotiate another deal
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52973857]AFAIK it's still not clear what happens if Parliament votes down the final deal - do we crash out to WTO rules? There'd be no time to negotiate another deal[/QUOTE] Yeah, basically that. There was rumor of maybe forcing the government to go back to negotiations, but I doubt it. It is a pretty good step that allows debate on the deal.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52973857]AFAIK it's still not clear what happens if Parliament votes down the final deal - do we crash out to WTO rules? There'd be no time to negotiate another deal[/QUOTE] Betting money would say that a defeat of the brexit deal bill would lead directly to staying in, whether it be may ultimately being forced out if she tries to move forward anyways, or by some legislative means i guess.
haha.jpg Now can they vote to stop the whole thing in its tracks and end this silliness?
[QUOTE=Sableye;52973939]Betting money would say that a defeat of the brexit deal bill would lead directly to staying in, whether it be may ultimately being forced out if she tries to move forward anyways, or by some legislative means i guess.[/QUOTE] Well no, the UK has a leave date, so you can say now it will be a vote on the final deal, either take it or WTO rules.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52973971]Well no, the UK has a leave date, so you can say now it will be a vote on the final deal, either take it or WTO rules.[/QUOTE] Didn't the eu say that if britain didn't want to leave in 2019 then they can just go back to status quo? Im just assuming if may's brexit deal is voted down then she's out of her job at that point and -someone- might actually stop this stupid process
[QUOTE=Sableye;52973989]Didn't the eu say that if britain didn't want to leave in 2019 then they can just go back to status quo?[/QUOTE] The UK could potentially revoke Article 50 with the support of all 27 EU members. Whether they would want to support that action is debatable.
This in an ideal world would force the Government to engage Parliament - the whole of it - in the negotiation process on a regular cross-party basis to secure agreement votes. What it will really do if TM clings to power, is that they'll continue running the DexEU almost entirely in secret until 1 week before the vote and say well, take it or leave it, be held responsible for destroying this country, or take the deal we've negotiated without your supervision.
[QUOTE=Jon27;52974082]This in an ideal world would force the Government to engage Parliament - the whole of it - in the negotiation process on a regular cross-party basis to secure agreement votes. What it will really do if TM clings to power, is that they'll continue running the DexEU almost entirely in secret until 1 week before the vote and say well, take it or leave it, be held responsible for destroying this country, or take the deal we've negotiated without your supervision.[/QUOTE] The issue surrounding allowing the parliament to vote on the deal proceedings has been the negotiating hand, which in something as large as this is something that needs to remain private, as it will in the EU. However a vote at the end of the deal is fine.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52974108]The issue surrounding allowing the parliament to vote on the deal proceedings has been the negotiating hand, which in something as large as this is something that needs to remain private, as it will in the EU. However a vote at the end of the deal is fine.[/QUOTE] I always thought that was something of a poor excuse. Sure, you don't tell an open session what your plans are for the next stage so your opposites can study it and prepare their manoeuvres around you. However, a weekly report of what's actually [i]happening[/i] and what's being discussed, what's been agreed or something to that effect would not have endangered the negotiations from the start. On the contrary I believe it would have averted hugely embarrassing incidents like the Northern Irish dashing one of the agreements onto the rocks through their coalition of chaos deal. But these are extremely involved management systems that I'm not sure that what remains of the old Conservative party are able to muster.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52974108]The issue surrounding allowing the parliament to vote on the deal proceedings has been the negotiating hand, which in something as large as this is something that needs to remain private, as it will in the EU. However a vote at the end of the deal is fine.[/QUOTE] the reason the government's negotiating tactic has been to keep shit secret is because they don't really have anything The EU dwarfs us economically, we are in an inherently weaker position than them and cannot really demand anything from them. The EU knows exactly what they'll get when the deal comes around, and the reality is that people in government are seemingly in denial about it. There is no secret here, there never has been.
[QUOTE=Streecer;52974498]the reason the government's negotiating tactic has been to keep shit secret is because they don't really have anything The EU dwarfs us economically, we are in an inherently weaker position than them and cannot really demand anything from them. The EU knows exactly what they'll get when the deal comes around, and the reality is that people in government are seemingly in denial about it. There is no secret here, there never has been.[/QUOTE] Regardless, there is still a tactic and you certainly don't need parliament looking into everything, thus why May is running on a mandate to secure the best possible deal and what it comes down to at the end of the day is whether that deal is any better off than WTO rules, which parliament will now decide on.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52974591]Regardless, there is still a tactic and [B]you certainly don't need parliament looking into everything[/B], thus why May is running on a mandate to secure the best possible deal and what it comes down to at the end of the day is whether that deal is any better off than WTO rules, which parliament will now decide on.[/QUOTE] So wait: a single person knows more about the economy and diplomacy than the entire parliament? I'd like to order what you are smoking.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;52974609]So wait: a single person knows more about the economy and diplomacy than the entire parliament? I'd like to order what you are smoking.[/QUOTE] Should've worded it better, there would be a problem with parliament deciding on what can or cannot be discussed at a negotiation, which will completely hamper the progress of a trade deal and eventually bring it to a halt, it is better that parliament has a final vote as per any other negotiation.
Mail in meltdown [media]https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/941085316827570176[/media]
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52974661]Should've worded it better, there would be a problem with parliament deciding on what can or cannot be discussed at a negotiation, which will completely hamper the progress of a trade deal and eventually bring it to a halt, it is better that parliament has a final vote as per any other negotiation.[/QUOTE] Until this rebellion parliament had no say in brexit at all aside from the few MPs that May had her hooks into.
[QUOTE=ViralHatred;52974801]Until this rebellion parliament had no say in brexit at all aside from the few MPs that May had her hooks into.[/QUOTE] Personally, I was never a fan of parliament having an active role in negotiations, as that is usually the government's role, however I definitely approve of parliament voting on the final deal. I just hope people don't get it in their minds that this vote will somehow be a backdoor exit of Brexit when its not.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52974688]Mail in meltdown[/QUOTE] Is this about as much as they can get away with printing out a hitlist for the Tommy Mair's of this country? If anybody goes out of their way to hurt these MP's the Mail is FUCKED.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52974688]Mail in meltdown[/QUOTE] Jesus christ, it was only yesterday that the mail was screaming for blood because facebook and twitter helped with a "smear campaign against the Tories" before the general election.
[QUOTE=El Burro;52974860]Is this about as much as they can get away with printing out a hitlist for the Tommy Mair's of this country? If anybody goes out of their way to hurt these MP's the Mail is FUCKED.[/QUOTE] I think some of their staff would be quite satisfied by that result. It's obvious that that's the end game for them - intimidate and eliminate those who disagree with you. The Daily Mail seems to be 100 percent in favour of a fascist Britain, hence why they paint the EU as the Nazis
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52974688]Mail in meltdown[/QUOTE] Wasn't the Daily Mail championing taking back control and giving parliament sovereignty (which they never actually lost) and now they don't like it when they do. I guess they only want sovereignty when it aligns with their POV.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52974688]Mail in meltdown [media]https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/941085316827570176[/media][/QUOTE] Jesus fucking christ they really have no shame do they? I'm inclined to try and help/ work out a campaign to write in to OfCom about this shit. This is unacceptable to be published as they are clearly trying to stir shit up. The leave campaign already inspired one asssanation. These dickheads seem to be vying for more. This isn't the first time they've done this, it won't be the last until a regulator fucks them up. They're trying their damn hardest to incite violent responses with this rhetoric.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52974688]Mail in meltdown [media]https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/941085316827570176[/media][/QUOTE] Urgh this country's newspapers are so fucked up. I cringe every time I look at the newspaper stand.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52975455]Jesus fucking christ they really have no shame do they? I'm inclined to try and help/ work out a campaign to write in to OfCom about this shit. This is unacceptable to be published as they are clearly trying to stir shit up. The leave campaign already inspired one asssanation. These dickheads seem to be vying for more. This isn't the first time they've done this, it won't be the last until a regulator fucks them up. They're trying their damn hardest to incite violent responses with this rhetoric.[/QUOTE] It would be IPSO you'd have to complain to, if you can find a clause in their [url=https://www.ipso.co.uk/editors-code-of-practice/]Code of Practice[/url] that this breached
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