• House GOP leaders add rape exception to abortion bill
    59 replies, posted
[quote]Washington (CNN) - House Republican leaders are hoping to head off a repeat of last week's controversy over the issue of whether there should be an exception for cases of rape and incest in a GOP sponsored bill banning late term abortions by adding that exception before the House debates the measure on Tuesday. Republican members on the House Judiciary committee, which marked up the abortion bill last week, voted down a Democratic amendment to allow women who are raped to obtain an abortion beyond 22 weeks into a pregnancy. But House GOP leaders decided to add a slightly different exception to the bill after several GOP members expressed concerns about the issue, according to two House Republican leadership aides. The new language permits an exception for those women who get pregnant through rape or incest to obtain an abortion if they report the crime to the authorities first. Last week the late term abortion bill's sponsor, Arizona Republican Rep. Trent Franks, ignited a controversy when he argued against any exception for rape being added to the bill. During the Judiciary panel's markup on the bill Franks said "the incidents of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low." Rep Zoe Lofgren, D-California, a member of the Judiciary committee, immediately pushed back, arguing, "there's no scientific basis for that. And the idea that the Republican men on this committee can tell the women of America that they have to carry to term the product of a rape is outrageous."[/quote] [url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/house-gop-leaders-add-rape-exception-to-abortion-bill/[/url]
Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] Arbitrary moral beliefs & religion. A lovely cocktail.
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] Conservatism and religion, which are tenets of the Republican Party.
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] The idea extends that these free people are able to make laws and rules in their free society which make them happy and at peace. There is a lot of charged belief on both sides, which often relies on some form of fundamental misunderstanding of facts or a deeply seated emotional/faith based energy about abortion. So, some groups of people, in their happy autonomous little states, want to ban abortion. Some groups of people, in their happy autonomous little states, want to make it legal perhaps even superlegal. Because these happy little autonomous states often have a lot of pull on one another and usually have to work together, Federal laws are created. One such law was created because there was a very big fight between the two groups of happy people about where they can get abortions. After all, you wouldn't want to move across country to have a tooth pulled! But you wouldn't want Doctor Mengle performing vivisections down the street! Since one group looks at it like the former, and another group thinks of it like the latter, the Supreme Court had to walk in and make a Federal law. Of course, all that law did was make the [I]practice[/I] of Abortion legal, and only under certain circumstances. It made both groups sad, but also made both groups happy. Arguably though it made one group happier than the other group. Now we're talking about all sorts of medical laws and health care provided by the government and stuff and the two groups are all itchy about the Abortion thing. One group thinks it's a medical right, just like, well, that tooth pulling! The other thinks it's a frivolous evil practice that's pretty much just a luxury. Since the tax dollars of both happy little groups go into paying for whatever those government subsidized doctors do, they're both very interested in making sure their opinion is louder. So it's very free, people on both sides just want what we all want at the end of the day. The ability to look out the window and say "I built that, and I like it." It also happens that one happy little group is fucking retarded.
I thought this had been the Republican's stance for years.
Can't wait for this to not pass.
democracy is dumb
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080245]democracy is dumb[/QUOTE] Democracy is a shit system, but it's a hell of a lot less shitty than being stuck under the whims of an autocrat who does as he pleases
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] Under a technicality, abortion can count as murder, as you're stopping a life from occurring. Of course, I think it's justified before the fetus gains consciousness, but I can understand how it can fit under the category of stopping a life preemptively.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080245]democracy is dumb[/QUOTE] Yeah man, National Socialism is the way to go!
[QUOTE=deltasquid;41080262]Democracy is a shit system, but it's a hell of a lot less shitty than being stuck under the whims of an autocrat who does as he pleases[/QUOTE] but that's a false dichotomy. autocracy is not the only alternative to democracy. [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;41080299]Yeah man, National Socialism is the way to go![/QUOTE] is it international logical fallacy day?
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080302]but that's a false dichotomy. autocracy is not the only alternative to democracy. [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] is it international logical fallacy day?[/QUOTE] I don't see how else you would steer a large population into a certain direction that benefits everyone
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080245]democracy is dumb[/QUOTE] Monarchies and dictatorships ain't fun either.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080302]but that's a false dichotomy. autocracy is not the only alternative to democracy. [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] is it international logical fallacy day?[/QUOTE] Please, describe your perfect non-democratic system in a brief thesis. You lose points every time you refer to a republic, Plato, anything Ayn Rand might have said, corporatism, citizenship-by-contribution, and Pre-Modern Senate. Begin!
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41080369]Please, describe your perfect non-democratic system in a brief thesis. You lose points every time you refer to a republic, Plato, anything Ayn Rand might have said, corporatism, citizenship-by-contribution, and Pre-Modern Senate. Begin![/QUOTE] I'm not prepared to debate in this thread when the first three replies are "HEH! GUESS YOU'RE ONE OF THEM UN-PATRIOTIC [I]NAZIS![/I]" If anything, it is the perfect example of why democracy is a failure. I don't understand why we celebrate giving the uninformed the ability to make informed decisions that effect others. If anyone is actually interested in having an intelligent debate with me, PM me or be polite.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41080198]It also happens that one happy little group is fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] I agree wholeheartedly The sanctity of life should not be infringed upon.
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;41080295]Of course, I think it's justified before the fetus gains consciousness, but I can understand how it can fit under the category of stopping a life preemptively.[/QUOTE] True; if it has no brain or nervous system whatsoever, it's not alive yet. Plus if there is such a thing as a soul, it would probably begin when the first neurons start firing, assuming that the soul is connected to electrical impulses, so abortion prior to neuron formation is ok since the child's soul has yet to form. Then again, I don't think theology is exactly well-known for having their cosmology and deities interconnected with the scientific method.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;41080320]I don't see how else you would steer a large population into a certain direction that benefits everyone[/QUOTE] We must convince everyone to put their faith into the glorious and wonderful free market and if we can do that, the free market will provide. Non-believers would be a great threat to this new and wonderful society and it is of great importance that they are hunted down and captured and then forced to read Economics in One Lesson by the great prophet Henry Hazlitt before performing 50 Hail Hayeks and pledging allegiance to our Lord and Saviour Carl Menger. I know this to be true because I was visited in a dream by the archangel Ludwig von Mises and he conveyed this to me. He told me to call this system; A Freeocracy [img]http://i.imgur.com/vfDmUyI.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080421]I'm not prepared to debate in this thread when the first three replies are "HEH! GUESS YOU'RE ONE OF THEM UN-PATRIOTIC [I]NAZIS![/I]" If anything, it is the perfect example of why democracy is a failure. I don't understand why we celebrate giving the uninformed the ability to make informed decisions that effect others. If anyone is actually interested in having an intelligent debate with me, PM me or be polite.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to bring you down, I'm genuinely wondering what alternatives to democracy and autocracy you'd prefer.
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] One of the key components of the US' system is that rights and freedoms are relative to those of any other. If I were truly "free" for example then I'd be "free" to kill my neighbor, steal her television set, and burn down her house. But because she's also "free" to live, and own both that TV and house then my actions would violate her rights and freedoms. Abortion in this case comes down to whether or not you're technically killing a baby, some would also raise the issue of depriving the father of their children, but in the case of rape I'd consider that a moot point as they'd be denied those children regardless on account of them being sex offenders.
I'm pro-choice. Having dealt with paying $750 for my own girlfriends abortion when I was 16. It wasn't easy, nothing pisses me off more than people making me out to be a sociopath baby killer, I have feelings...
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080421]I'm not prepared to debate in this thread when the first three replies are "HEH! GUESS YOU'RE ONE OF THEM UN-PATRIOTIC [I]NAZIS![/I]"[/QUOTE] congratulations you stooped to their level I'm glad that you're here to offer to be the morally superior one
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080421]I'm not prepared to debate in this thread when the first three replies are "HEH! GUESS YOU'RE ONE OF THEM UN-PATRIOTIC [I]NAZIS![/I]" If anything, it is the perfect example of why democracy is a failure. I don't understand why we celebrate giving the uninformed the ability to make informed decisions that effect others. If anyone is actually interested in having an intelligent debate with me, PM me or be polite.[/QUOTE] We barely have "the uninformed make informed decisions", typically the people who make decisions are politicians, the most informed people possible (at least, in theory). [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] And the times we do have the uninformed make informed decisions is when it's on the state or local level, not a big deal, and it works pretty well for the most part. The federal law is there to find the, honestly, objectively best answer after states or locales have found that their laws have failed (or succeeded) [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] All this testing shit takes a lot of time, social change and political change are slow, but it may just be faster this way, because with the states making laws regarding popular social and political issues, they get to test the law with a population, and the rest of the country can decide what has to be done from there. [editline]18th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=breakyourfac;41080692]I'm pro-choice. Having dealt with paying $750 for my own girlfriends abortion when I was 16. It wasn't easy, nothing pisses me off more than people making me out to be a sociopath baby killer, I have feelings...[/QUOTE] That's fucking awful, where do you live?
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080421]If anyone is actually interested in having an intelligent debate with me, PM me or be polite.[/QUOTE] Kinda hard to have a intelligent debate with someone that isn't. I might as well have a conversation with my bathroom door than you.
[QUOTE=Van-man;41081479]Kinda hard to have a intelligent debate with someone that isn't. I might as well have a conversation with my bathroom door than you.[/QUOTE] Okay that's just kind of completely fucking rude
The closest to a perfect system is probably [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy"]Technocracy[/URL], but even that has some serious flaws
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;41080295]Under a technicality, abortion can count as murder, as you're stopping a life from occurring.[/QUOTE] How is "preventing life from occurring" murder? Murder is taking away someone's life.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;41081536]How is "preventing life from occurring" murder? Murder is taking away someone's life.[/QUOTE] Because some people argue that [I]"life"[/I] occurs the very moment Larry the sperm cell penetrates Petunia the egg.
[QUOTE=The golden;41081726]Seriously. If we followed the preaching of the anti-abortionists 100% then male ejaculation would be genodcide.[/QUOTE] Yep. And menstruation would be plain murder. [I]"Oh man, I REALLY need to commit a genocide"[/I]
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