• France's premier warns of new attacks, 15 000 people on police radar
    120 replies, posted
[quote=Reuters]French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Sunday there would be new attacks in France but proposals by former president Nicolas Sarkozy to boost security was not the right way to deal with threats. The French capital was put on high alert last week when French officials said they dismantled a "terrorist cell" that planned to attack a Paris railway station under the direction of Islamic State. "This week at least two attacks were foiled," Manuel Valls said in an interview with Europe 1 radio and Itele television on Sunday. Valls said there were 15,000 people on the radar of police and intelligent services who were in the process of being radicalized. "There will be new attacks, there will be innocent victims... this is also my role to tell this truth to the French people," Valls said.[/quote] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-idUSKCN11H0E1[/url] 15 000 in process of radicalization, that will lead to a lot of attacks.
15 000...
What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.
15,000? Holy fuck that is far more than enough for attacks all across the country.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/QUOTE] We have freedom of speech and we can speak shit about any religion we want. Islam is no exception.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/QUOTE] Awwww, those poor extremists. Poor them.
[QUOTE=Fourier;51034154]We have freedom of speech and we can speak shit about any religion we want. Islam is no exception.[/QUOTE] No, you don't understand. Muslims are children/animals/inanimate automatons who have no control over their actions. Everything that they do is a result of the West, like a logical computer program. They have no will or power of their own!
[QUOTE=Fourier;51034154]We have freedom of speech and we can speak shit about any religion we want. Islam is no exception.[/QUOTE] That is completely irrelevant to what he's saying.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51034177]That is completely irrelevant to what he's saying.[/QUOTE] Yeah what Grenadiac is saying is that Muslims are a unique class of people who are apparently so volatile that you can't treat them normally otherwise they'll blow you up.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;51034160]Awwww, those poor extremists. Poor them.[/QUOTE] why do you think they BECAME extremists?
[quote]Valls said there were 15,000 people on the radar of police and intelligent services who were in the process of being radicalized.[/quote] Would love to see the numbers of this and what they define as "being radicalized" (as in currently, not are). Does saying "fuck france" count as Islamic radicalization, I wonder?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;51034192]Yeah what Grenadiac is saying is that Muslims are a unique class of people that are apparently so volatile that you can't treat them normally otherwise they're blow you up.[/QUOTE] Any class of people will hit back if you treat them like garbage for long enough. We saw this in the 1900s with movements like the Black Panther Party. Everything the West has done to them plays right into extremist propaganda and helps radicalize them. When you increase surveillance on them just for being Muslim, deny them job opportunities, homes, make their immigration more difficult, instruct police to disproportionately hassle them, ban their traditional religious wear, turn a blind eye when hooligans and thugs harass them in the street, subject them to second class medical care, pigeonhole them in underfunded refugee camps with little to no law enforcement, and dismiss them as "poor little Muslims" when they get fed up - yes, they will be more prone to buy into the extremist propaganda telling them the West is out to get them. Whereas in nations that treat them like people, there's magically no problem. Imagine that.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51034219]Would love to see the numbers of this and what they define as "being radicalized" (as in currently, not are). Does saying "fuck france" count as Islamic radicalization, I wonder?[/QUOTE] Anyone listening to imams who preach the literal, often violent side of Islam and promote hate or violence towards of any non-muslims/haram muslims (which is perfectly legal due to freedom of speech). Going on frequent trips to Turkey or Iraq, donating large sums of money to people in either of those countries etc. These guys (or girls as we have seen with the jihadi-brides) are doing a lot more than just being edgy teenagers.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;51034192]Yeah what Grenadiac is saying is that Muslims are a unique class of people that are apparently so volatile that you can't treat them normally otherwise they're blow you up.[/QUOTE] is that what grenadiac is saying? because i don't think that's what grenadiac is saying
[QUOTE=Fourier;51034154]We have freedom of speech and we can speak shit about any religion we want. Islam is no exception.[/QUOTE] He's not talking about people exercising their freedom of speech as much as the government actively suppressing the freedom of speech of Muslims across the nation. People got fucking arrested and thrown in jail following the Hebdo attacks if they said anything in favor of the terrorists. If people are allowed to talk shit about religion then they should be allowed to talk shit about a newspaper, tasteless or not. This is without mentioning the frequent fashion policing France has been known to do, the whole Burkini business only being the most recent infraction to basic human liberties among many.
[QUOTE=Glamour;51034196]why do you think they BECAME extremists?[/QUOTE] Because in the muslim victim narrative, westerners/usa/mossad are at fault for everything wrong in the arab world and to an extend this thinking also exists in european muslim communities. They glorify their own culture, lack any kind of self-reflection and when you have a simple enemy extremism becomes reasonable. Somehow western liberals like Grenadiac also believe this. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Xenophobic Shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
Is Grenadiac of all people actually speaking up for Muslims in this thread and pointing out how marginalizing them sows hate among the muslim population or people in general? Are people actually defending the marginalizing of them in this thread? Did I stumble into a alternate world?
[QUOTE=Niklas;51034356]Because in the muslim victim narrative, westerners/usa/mossad are at fault for everything wrong in the arab world and to an extend this thinking also exists in european muslim communities. They glorify their own culture, lack any kind of self-reflection and when you have a simple enemy extremism becomes reasonable. Somehow western liberals like Grenadiac also believe this.[/QUOTE] On the flip side let's be real, the existing nascent extremist movement in the East was helped along by the Pakistanis funding the mujahideen, but where did this funding come from? under the auspices of the CIA, who, under the Reagan administration, deemed it expedient to organize an army of over a billion Muslims against the 'evil communists', or in Reagan's own words, the 'evil Empire.' [quote=Ronald Reagan]President Ronald Reagan famously met with the mujahedin in the Oval Office in 1983. “To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom,” Reagan declared.[/quote] Salafism remained weak and isolated until the Western powers saw the movement as an opportunity to provide a bulwark against what they perceived was the threat of communism, as part of the grand strategy of the Cold War.
[QUOTE=Niklas;51034356]Because in the muslim victim narrative, westerners/usa/mossad are at fault for everything wrong in the arab world and to an extend this thinking also exists in european muslim communities. They glorify their own culture, lack any kind of self-reflection and when you have a simple enemy extremism becomes reasonable. Somehow western liberals like Grenadiac also believe this.[/QUOTE] that's not what the argument is though. that's a version of the argument twisted into complete absurdity, because otherwise the notion that vilifying and persecuting people for their beliefs breeds disdain is really quite sensible
[quote]Valls said there were 15,000 people on the radar of police and intelligent services who were in the process of being radicalized.[/quote] i think this is the reason why france (and many european states) are so far behind on counter terrorism. in the process of vetting 15,000 people, they managed to miss the dozen plotting to actually do something [editline]11th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51034394]On the flip side let's be real, the existing nascent extremist movement in the East was helped along by the Pakistanis funding the mujahideen, but where did this funding come from? under the auspices of the CIA, who, under the Reagan administration, deemed it expedient to organize an army of over a billion Muslims against the 'evil communists', or in Reagan's own words, the 'evil Empire.' Salafism remained weak and isolated until the Western powers saw the movement as an opportunity to provide a bulwark against what they perceived was the threat of communism, as part of the grand strategy of the Cold War.[/QUOTE] ya the CIA used them, but the funding all dried up in the 1990s, which was then quickly replaced by groups like AQ who had backchannels to rich muslims that didn't feel bad about cutting checks to cause havoc here and there, even after it started a culture war
If you honestly believe that Islamic terrorism is mainly the result of a "backlash" of Westerners against Muslims, you don't know what's going on in the world. [url]http://www.lbc.co.uk/maajid-nawaz-hammers-home-failure-of-war-on-terror-136805[/url]
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51034378]Is Grenadiac of all people actually speaking up for Muslims in this thread and pointing out how marginalizing them sows hate among the muslim population or people in general? Are people actually defending the marginalizing of them in this thread? Did I stumble into a alternate world?[/QUOTE] What's this even mean, "Grenadiac of all people"? The only remotely right stance I hold is being pro-gun. I'm very staunchly pro civil rights, and that includes not shitting on Muslims. I guess you could be referring to my stance on the Confederate flag? I dunno. I can't imagine where you got the idea I wouldn't support Muslim integration.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034480]What's this even mean, "Grenadiac of all people"? The only remotely right stance I hold is being pro-gun. I'm very staunchly pro civil rights, and that includes not shitting on Muslims. I guess you could be referring to my stance on the Confederate flag? I dunno. I can't imagine where you got the idea I wouldn't support Muslim integration.[/QUOTE] I'm probably confusing you with trump supporters, if you are one that is, and the confederate flag does give off the far right impression.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51034556]I'm probably confusing you with trump supporters, if you are one that is, and the confederate flag does give off the far right impression.[/QUOTE] No, I backed Bernie until he dropped out. Now I have to begrudgingly support Clinton. My avatar is a satire, I'm making fun of the blatant racists crying foul about the Confederate flag being taken down (hence the KKK hood shedding a tear). I submitted it as :1488: to the FP emoticon contest. It's based on this old emoticon- [img]http://i.imgur.com/0roYbk6.gif[/img] My stance on the flag is that it doesn't stand for racism, but racists stand for it, but this isn't the right thread for that discussion.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51034341]He's not talking about people exercising their freedom of speech as much as the government actively suppressing the freedom of speech of Muslims across the nation. People got fucking arrested and thrown in jail following the Hebdo attacks if they said anything in favor of the terrorists. If people are allowed to talk shit about religion then they should be allowed to talk shit about a newspaper, tasteless or not. This is without mentioning the frequent fashion policing France has been known to do, the whole Burkini business only being the most recent infraction to basic human liberties among many.[/QUOTE] Freedom of speech ends the exact moment you incite violence or threaten violence. I guarantee you, the poor little islamic extremists aren't getting it any worse than Nazi's would. If nazi's were still actively blowing shit up across the world.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;51034586]Freedom of speech ends the exact moment you incite violence or threaten violence. I guarantee you, the poor little islamic extremists aren't getting it any worse than Nazi's would. If nazi's were still actively blowing shit up across the world.[/QUOTE] Yeah but if theoretically Germans tended to be poorer, downtrodden people and then you started marginalizing and abusing them systematically you would find more Germans sympathizing with the Nazi ideology of "the rest of the world hates us Germans because they know we're better than them, we have to conquer them to earn our place" (this actually happened once, you might remember that from history class if you didn't sleep through it)
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034592]Yeah but if theoretically Germans tended to be poorer, downtrodden people and then you started marginalizing and abusing them systematically you would find more Germans empathizing with the Nazi ideology of "the rest of the world hates us Germans, we have to conquer them to earn our place" (this actually happened once, you might remember that from history class if you didn't sleep through it)[/QUOTE] Oh i remember that from history class. The reason i'm not agreeing with you is that the actual situation is actually layered and nuanced and doesn't fit into an easy, banal correlation. You might have realized that if you didn't draw your brain from a parking-lot slot-machine. If you think muslims living in the western world can be compared to Germans living in post-crash Germany, you must be nothing but meat with eyes. These are people who receive state subsidies, often have houses provided for them, have the opportunity to give their children free pluralistic educations. Compared to what they'd have in the countries they have arrived from, they are almost living a tick above middle-class. So frankly, if people are getting tired of them radicalizing into religious extremists despite all that, i cant say i blame them. There is no justification for all the trouble they are causing.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034584]No, I backed Bernie until he dropped out. Now I have to begrudgingly support Clinton. My avatar is a satire, I'm making fun of the blatant racists crying foul about the Confederate flag being taken down (hence the KKK hood shedding a tear). I submitted it as :1488: to the FP emoticon contest. It's based on this old emoticon- [img]http://i.imgur.com/0roYbk6.gif[/img] My stance on the flag is that it doesn't stand for racism, but racists stand for it, but this isn't the right thread for that discussion.[/QUOTE] I see, my apologies then for the misunderstanding.
What are the chances that this is just an official throwing out the biggest number possible to show people they are doing shit about shit getting real
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258]Any class of people will hit back if you treat them like garbage for long enough. We saw this in the 1900s with movements like the Black Panther Party. Everything the West has done to them plays right into extremist propaganda and helps radicalize them.[/QUOTE] Other countries have also massively suffered under western imperialism and american foreign policy, but unlike the arab world they aren't seeing themselves as the victims of the west. Comparing the Black Panthers to worldwide islamic extremism is pretty stupid too. [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] When you increase surveillance on them just for being Muslim[/QUOTE] Racial profiling makes sense if you are dealing with terrorism from a specific community [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] deny them job opportunities, [/quote] [url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/701556/German-Asylum-seekers-refuse-to-work-insisting-We-are-Merkel-s-GUESTS[/url] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] homes, [/QUOTE] Do you mean refugees or muslim citizens being denied homes? If the later give me a source [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] make their immigration more difficult, [/QUOTE] Most muslims come from countries with very low educational standards, of course they have a harder time migrating than someone from another western country. [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] ban their traditional religious wear,[/QUOTE] that is ironic [url]http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by-veiled-assassins/news-story/5356534a06f3213389835f34281ecf80[/url] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] instruct police to disproportionately hassle them, [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] turn a blind eye when hooligans and thugs harass them in the street, [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] subject them to second class medical care, [/QUOTE] source [QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034258] pigeonhole them in underfunded refugee camps with little to no law enforcement,[/QUOTE]Oh right we should provide houses and apartments for every refugee that comes to europe You are throwing around pretty outragous claims, please give some source if you aren't talking out of your ass.
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