I realized I may have been shitting up other people's threads with gun control debates recently so I thought I'd move it here.
[QUOTE=krix;47869078]Except adding guns to the list of legally available weaponry is a bad thing?
The more difficult murder is the better.[/QUOTE]
So where do you draw the line? If making murder as difficult as possible is our goal where do we draw the line at what to restrict. You should be taking things to the logical conclusion
Regardless of that, I'm going to assume you mean better as to be 'reduced murders', except there is no evidence the buyback had an effect on the Australia murder rate.
Here is a nice pile of studies that say there was no benefit from the buyback:
[url]https://www.melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/working_paper_series/wp2008n17.pdf[/url]
[url]http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/GunLawsSudden%20DeathBJC.pdf[/url]
[url]http://faculty.publicpolicy.umd.edu/sites/default/files/reuter/files/gun%20chapter.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.ic-wish.org/Baker%20and%20McPhedran%20Review%20and%20Critique%20of%20Chapman%20et%20al.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;47869654]
please also note a bias coming from download as a person who over the past few months has repeatedly shown off his gun license and "knowhow" on the subject in many discussions where the slightest "yeah its basically impossible to get guns where i live" is mentioned, usually by people living in metro areas.
when living in metro areas (specifically metro melbourne) its nigh on impossible to get a license, though if you want to go through the red tape for your hobby you are welcome to.
[/QUOTE]
I can confirm this bit, got a timestamped photo of his gun license after I made a statement that more or less matches yours. I live in Adelaide to add to it.
since I was a kid, the murder rate and general crime rate has plummeted and gun ownership has skyrocketed. I'm not saying more guns definitely lowers murder rate but it sure doesn't seem to increase it
Guns are downright illegal in Mexico and it doesn't seem to be helping them either.
[QUOTE=butre;47869952]Guns are downright illegal in Mexico and it doesn't seem to be helping them either.[/QUOTE]
They're not illegal. They are just crazy crazy restricted. There is a single gun shop in the country of Mexico, and it's located inside an army base outside Mexico City.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;47869654]The idea isnt to stop all murders, its to restrict access to those which are abused the most and are easily controllable (to a certain extent)
please also note a bias coming from download as a person who over the past few months has repeatedly shown off his gun license and "knowhow" on the subject in many discussions where the slightest "yeah its basically impossible to get guns where i live" is mentioned, usually by people living in metro areas.
when living in metro areas (specifically metro melbourne) its nigh on impossible to get a license, though if you want to go through the red tape for your hobby you are welcome to.[/quote]
Except it's not 'nigh on impossible' to get a license anywhere in Australia. You literally walk into a police station, fill out the forms and once they've done the background check they'll send them back to you so you can do your firearms safety courses. You then go back to the police station and they give you your license.
Yes, I jump in and tell people thing about guns in Australia. Why? because there is so much misinformation like the shit you keep spouting about firearms in Australia. It's continuously clear you haven't done any research when you keep talking like a broken record and saying it's impossible to get a gun license. 5 minutes of Google-based research would tell you how wrong you are.
[quote]
Buyback stopped mass shootings as we knew them, and i'd like download to either admit he was wrong in the previous thread or actually cite a mass shooting (that has been factually designated as a mass shooting by the government) that happened after the buyback and reform, because from what was said in the previous thread it what he initially used as an example as to the failure of the reform happened [highlight]12 years[/highlight] before the reform.[/quote]
Oh stop misrepresenting what I said. I said there was a bikie shootout in Melbourne [I]after[/I] the buyback. [I]It was in 2007[/I]. Four people got shot in it. You also still don't seem to be getting why I pointed to all those non-firearm massacres after 1996 - hint: it's called substitution.
Mass shootings have always been a rare event in Australia. If you had actually bothered to read the papers I linked you would know this. You can not use rare events to document trends. If you had read them you would also notice that the buyback had no noticeable effect on the murder rate in this country.
By your "no mass shootings since" logic a single 10 death mass shooting is apparently worse than 10 single death shootings when in reality they are equal in loss of life and equally as awful as eachother.
[quote]
I'l read those studies tomorrow when I have the time, in the meantime don't bullshit and pull data from your ass like what usually happens in gun debates once they spiral into "i like guns why are they controlled" "government is being a pile of shit" because it happens 99 percent of the time and i'd rather it not go there.
Not saying its a completely reliable source, its barely one, but it does go through differences between culture and situation relating to the buyback and reform and interviews politicians that were figureheads in pushing the reform.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, a comedy show, the height of scientific evidence.
[editline]4th June 2015[/editline]
I like how you've already jumped the gun and wildly asserted I'm going to pull things out of my ass when I've already posted research on the topic.
I say we (US) make everyone take gun training classes, those who are psychologically unable will be weeded out, and those who pass all get free guns. Eg. Switzerland
Banning guns is as useful as banning anything else. If there is a demand, there will be a supply.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;47875150]I'm yet to read through the papers but I soon will, from my brief glance though, they seem to use data which actually suggests a significant drop in gun violence since the buyback then say "didnt do shit doc"
Also, yes, its nigh on impossible due to requiring a legitimate reason, and "sporting" as a reason requires you to jump through incredible hoops which means all but those who actually make money doing sports shooting will not get a license.
[editline]4th June 2015[/editline]
also give me a name of this mass shooting, what im finding of massacres around that time have no mention of them being mass shootings, but generic massacres[/QUOTE]
If I recall correctly the data shows that gun violence was dropping at a steady rate for a long time before the buyback and there was no change in the rate after it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/QnfEZio.jpg[/img]
The buyback occurred in '96. While the data seems jumpy, keep in mind these are very small numbers with the graph blown up very big. That's homicides per 100,000 people.
e: This is graph is more robust - this is total gun deaths per year, including accidental deaths, suicides, and, I assume, self defense cases.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/A2bYbEJ.png[/img]
'96 saw the Port Arthur massacre so there's a spike, but the overall rate of decline is pretty even. This graph suggests to me that the buyback didn't actually affect the amount of deaths.
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