San Francisco plans to require that all new buildings and parking be ‘100% electric vehicle ready’
29 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The city of San Francisco has not been shy to use its building codes to try to accelerate the deployment of sustainable energy. Last year, it required new buildings to have solar panels installed on the roof and this year, it will try to accommodate electric vehicles by using a similar approach.
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[QUOTE]This 100 percent EV Ready ordinance requires all new residential and commercial buildings to configure 10 percent of parking spaces to be “turnkey ready” for EV charger installation, and an additional 10 percent to be “EV flexible” for potential charging and upgrades. The remaining 80 percent of parking spaces will be “EV capable,” by ensuring conduit is run in the hardest to reach areas of a parking garage to avoid future cost barriers.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
[url]https://electrek.co/2017/03/01/san-francisco-electric-vehicle-charging-ready/[/url]
As neat as this is, is SF [i]really[/i] trying [i]as hard as they possibly can[/i] to make the cost of living as high as humanly possible??
Honestly, how many "new buildings" are there going to be in San Francisco?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51895840]It's already stupidly high. Eventually no one will be able to live there[/QUOTE]
Then the price would go down, wouldn't it?
This needs to be done nationwide.
I was shopping for a new car recently. Literally the only reason I didn't get an electric was that, when I move out of my current apartment in a few months, I have zero guarantee that I can recharge my car anywhere. Apartment-dwellers usually have the best usage case for an EV - short commutes, start/stop-heavy city driving - but the worst infrastructure. I'm lucky now to have a 120v outlet close enough that I could trickle-charge, and there's even Tesla and SAE chargers available.
But anywhere else? I can't even assume a 120V outlet to trickle-charge from, and the kinds of EVs you can buy at $10K prices don't have the range to go more than a day without charging. So I had to turn down the EV.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;51895824]As neat as this is, is SF [i]really[/i] trying [i]as hard as they possibly can[/i] to make the cost of living as high as humanly possible??[/QUOTE]
How much do you think charging stations really cost compared to the property and structure itself?
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;51895824]As neat as this is, is SF [i]really[/i] trying [i]as hard as they possibly can[/i] to make the cost of living as high as humanly possible??[/QUOTE]
they really love their homeless problem.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;51895824]As neat as this is, is SF [i]really[/i] trying [i]as hard as they possibly can[/i] to make the cost of living as high as humanly possible??[/QUOTE]
the law would require nothing more than a $10 outlet + electrical wire ($35 if it has to be outside)
[IMG]http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjXtPl56dF-qBkwZuzu_FPg.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51896073]Honestly, how many "new buildings" are there going to be in San Francisco?[/QUOTE]
I'm here right now for GDC and it seems everything is under construction at least in SOMA
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51896078]Then the price would go down, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
You see, there's this country called China.....
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51896604]Yes, but how much do you think those buildings are going to charge renters for the "privilege" of being able to charge their EV?[/QUOTE]
Sounds to me that if utilities like electricity are covered by the rental cost, that should also cover EVs automatically.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51896604]Yes, but how much do you think those buildings are going to charge renters for the "privilege" of being able to charge their EV?[/QUOTE]
If they're overcharging then they won't get customers.
If they aren't overcharging then they will get customers.
This is just simple economics. You can't really avoid it, because rent control has proven time and time again to be an absolute disaster for the economy.
[QUOTE=archangel125;51896759]Sounds to me that if utilities like electricity are covered by the rental cost, that should also cover EVs automatically.[/QUOTE]
EVs would disproportionately eat electricity so a landlord would likely want those using it to cover the difference. It's only like $0.03/mile compared to the $0.06-$0.10 you might be paying for gas, but the way shit goes I wouldn't be surprised if a landlord tries charging an additional 20 bucks a month for a parking sticker for EV charge spots, when that money would otherwise go towards something like 700 miles' worth of charge, regardless of how much or little you use it
tl;dr the worry is about being taken advantage of by people who are just unknowledgeable about the running costs or are actively trying to make a few bucks
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51896874]But this is the SF area.. everyone is overcharging. You're paying for the "joy" of living in the city.[/QUOTE]
If people are buying the units then they aren't overcharging.
The area is now a wealth hotspot. If you aren't wealthy, consider leaving as quickly as possible and move to an area where you will be able to have a higher quality of life at the same income.
It's super fucking unfortunate but that's just how it works. We used to think we could control it but then new york did the thing.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;51896221]How much do you think charging stations really cost compared to the property and structure itself?[/QUOTE]
i dont remember the math but i do recall its like at least 1/5th the price to install when youre building new
[editline]1st March 2017[/editline]
[url]http://techomebuilder.com/emagazine-articles-1/energy-and-water/ev-charging-what-do-homebuilders-need-to-know[/url]
probably not a great source but this explains why this isnt an expensive proposal
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51896822]It's not that. Its "oh we have EV parking, so instead of paying 2k a month for rent, you can pay 3k a month, because you have the privilege to charge your EV in our parking lot" Its like the apartments who say "we've got laundry hook ups in your apartment, therefore your rent is 900$ instead of 800$"[/QUOTE]
Landlords in California are already required to allow tenants to install an EV charger.
[QUOTE=pentium;51896711]You see, there's this country called China.....[/QUOTE]
the chinese government had massive amounts of undeveloped land, massive amounts of cash at hand, and massive numbers of people living in rural areas, so it was a mix of wishful thinking and distribution of wealth through arbitrary urban construction projects
has nothing to do with real estate in SF
Both this law and forcing landlords to allow home chargers should be implemented globally asap IMO. Home chargers are almost mandatory for mass EV adoption, and one of the biggest benefits to EV drivers.
San Fransisco just does it's own thing, but it's slowly bleeding out to nearby cities, I live in Sam Bruno and they're slowly trying to implement the same thing. It's annoying because parking is already a pain in the ass.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51896874]But this is the SF area.. everyone is overcharging. [B]You're paying for the "joy" of living in the city[/B].[/QUOTE]
Well, exactly. Landlords can't just charge whatever they want for rent. The market dictates rental rates, and the market is subject to supply and demand. There is massive demand for housing in and around San Francisco (coastal California in general, really), but not enough supply to reach it. Thus, rental rates skyrocket. It's not overcharging for rent until they can no longer find enough renters to maintain peak profits and full occupancy.
It really sucks for the people who just can't afford it, but unfortunately that's just the nature of the beast. Everybody wants to live there, but not everybody can. The only way to alleviate that is to build substantial amounts of new housing (which could result in overcrowding and crash the desirability of the city), or for enough people to move away that demand begins to decline.
[QUOTE=Jund;51898193]the chinese government had massive amounts of undeveloped land, massive amounts of cash at hand, and massive numbers of people living in rural areas, so it was a mix of wishful thinking and distribution of wealth through arbitrary urban construction projects
has nothing to do with real estate in SF[/QUOTE]
You don't build several million/billion in housing and commercial developments locally when according to your books that money doesn't exist.
Hence why you ship your kids abroad and have them buy properties in cash for several times market value in places where foreign investment maintains a sustainable inflation rate at the expense of the locals.
Saying China does not have a hand in the runaway prices in major international cities is pure ignorance.
[QUOTE=pentium;51899683]You don't build several million/billion in housing and commercial developments locally when according to your books that money doesn't exist.
Hence why you ship your kids abroad and have them buy properties in cash for several times market value in places where foreign investment maintains a sustainable inflation rate at the expense of the locals.
Saying China does not have a hand in the runaway prices in major international cities is pure ignorance.[/QUOTE]
that problem lies with the people from china, not china proper
[QUOTE=gman003-main;51896163]This needs to be done nationwide.
I was shopping for a new car recently. Literally the only reason I didn't get an electric was that, when I move out of my current apartment in a few months, I have zero guarantee that I can recharge my car anywhere. Apartment-dwellers usually have the best usage case for an EV - short commutes, start/stop-heavy city driving - but the worst infrastructure. I'm lucky now to have a 120v outlet close enough that I could trickle-charge, and there's even Tesla and SAE chargers available.
But anywhere else? I can't even assume a 120V outlet to trickle-charge from, and the kinds of EVs you can buy at $10K prices don't have the range to go more than a day without charging. So I had to turn down the EV.[/QUOTE]
I would disagree. In the northeast, at least, if you are living in an apartment, there is a very strong chance that you park on the street (if at all). Homeowners are the ones with the best chances.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;51905694]I would disagree. In the northeast, at least, if you are living in an apartment, there is a very strong chance that you park on the street (if at all). Homeowners are the ones with the best chances.[/QUOTE]
While that's true that homeowners are better off, I'm pretty sure he meant people who live in appwrtments are better suited to an EV in other aspects of their lives.
Roadside chargers are also a thing though.
It really depends how your Apt's parking situation is, especially if you have an apt that is a decent distance away from your car.
I could see it as follows, instead of the landlord tacking on an extra $20 to rent, you simply control it from utilities usage. Say the spaces have your standard stand-alone EV charger but it has card pay so that you can pay for how much charge you want instead of a flat rate set by the landlord.
The only cost the landlord would have to pay is the initial installation and maybe yearly inspection.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;51905748]It really depends how your Apt's parking situation is, especially if you have an apt that is a decent distance away from your car.
I could see it as follows, instead of the landlord tacking on an extra $20 to rent, you simply control it from utilities usage. Say the spaces have your standard stand-alone EV charger but it has card pay so that you can pay for how much charge you want instead of a flat rate set by the landlord.
The only cost the landlord would have to pay is the initial installation and maybe yearly inspection.[/QUOTE]
Most apartments in my area do not have off-street parking. Maybe for some ritzy place in Manhattan, but everywhere else around it, you park on the street or don't park at all. The kinds of cities where EV commutes are optimal also happen to be the kinds of cities where parking is rare.
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