Pope Warns That Rising Populism Could Produce a New Hitler
37 replies, posted
[quote]
ROME — Pope Francis has warned against growing populism in Europe, saying such movements could result in the election leaders of like Germany's Adolf Hitler.
"In times of crisis, we lack judgment, and that is a constant reference for me," the pontiff said in an in-depth interview with Spanish newspaper El Pais. "The most obvious example of European populism is Germany in 1933. After the crisis of 1930, Germany is broken, it needs to get up, to find its identity, a leader, someone capable of restoring its character, and there is a young man named Adolf Hitler." [/quote]
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681?cid=sm_fb_nbcnews[/url]
What kind of asshole gets the right to sa - oh it's the pope
For the love of god(no pun intended) if nobody will listen to experts, historians, or[I] anyone[/I] who is qualified at least listen to the fucking Pope.
It really is scary as hell that we as a people have forgotten the horrors of global war and we seem to be inching ever closer to it again.
Too late, Francis. There's already a Hitler-wannabe in the fucking US.
He's not wrong, but it's important to address [i]why[/i] people move towards nationalistic parties and organizations. They do so when they feel threatened/attacked from external forces, and when they feel that their current leaders have failed to listen to them. It's a reaction where they discard everything else because of genuine fear for their own safety. They frequently know that the choice isn't a good one, let alone an ideal one, but they don't see an alternative.
My point is that you can't simply say, nationalism is the problem, and rip into it. You have to work on the root cause. Anything else just feeds the insatiable fury of the people who don't feel like they are being listened to.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51746154]He's not wrong, but it's important to address [i]why[/i] people move towards nationalistic parties and organizations. They do so when they feel threatened/attacked from external forces, and when they feel that their current leaders have failed to listen to them. It's a reaction where they discard everything else because of genuine fear for their own safety. They frequently know that the choice isn't a good one, let alone an ideal one, but they don't see an alternative.
My point is that you can't simply say, nationalism is the problem, and rip into it. You have to work on the root cause. Anything else just feeds the insatiable fury of the people who don't feel like they are being listened to.[/QUOTE]
That raises the question, WHAT tells them there's something to fear when they haven't personally witnessed or experienced it?
[QUOTE=Van-man;51746169]That raises the question, WHAT tells them there's something to fear when they haven't personally witnessed or experienced it?[/QUOTE]
Fox newsssssss.
[QUOTE=Van-man;51746169]That raises the question, WHAT tells them there's something to fear when they haven't personally witnessed or experienced it?[/QUOTE]
Right now we have plenty of horror stories of immigrants raping and burning, and horror stories of government sanctioned coverups of those crimes. Then there are the politicians openly downplaying things or outright calling people racists/sexists when some of them do have first and second hand experience with the bad sides of things.
I'm not saying the fear is completely rational. I'm saying it's an inescapable fact that it exists, and attempting to marginalize or ignore has consistently been shown to blow up spectacularly eventually. People can only be pushed so far before they snap, and the backlash destroys everything around them in the process.
I kind of have to say "no shit" but I guess it takes the Pope to say it to reach to some people to realize this.
[QUOTE=froztshock;51746182]Fox newsssssss.[/QUOTE]
Don't just blame one side for this. We're all responsible. Not just us in the media, although we do definitely mantle most of the blame, but everyone who tunes in, every blip on the hit counters on terrorism articles, every person who causes that spike in Google searches after a terrorist attack, or posts some kind of support on Facebook, everyone is responsible for this.
The public has turned terrorist attacks into a money printing machine for the media. The only way to fight back against that valuable fear that we spread is to avoid it entirely. Give us a reason to change our reporting styles and methods, because if we're not making money and selling ads, we're not going to stay on the same path.
Hitler's already here, franky.
He's just a spraytanned orangutan this time.
this seems like a pretty dull point
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;51746249]Hitler's already here, franky.
He's just a spraytanned orangutan this time.[/QUOTE]Stop comparing Hitler to Trump that's like apples and [I]oranges[/I]
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;51746130]It really is scary as hell that we as a people have forgotten the horrors of global war and we seem to be inching ever closer to it again.[/QUOTE]
"History repeats itself, because people don't learn anything from it in the first place."
It's cyclical. We're trapped in this loop: we learn a lesson for a while when something really terrible happens, but then we start to forget it as generations pass and it slips out of recent memory. Then before long, we're right back to square one all over again. Same mistakes, same problems, same kinds of leaders and opportunists coming out of the woodwork to capitalize on the situation, same brutality. All that changes is the way in which we inflict violence on one another as our technology evolves, the names, the ideologies, etc. Otherwise, it's the same shit over and over again.
Short-term, we can learn. And we do... for a while. Long-term, more often than not we go back to making the exact same mistakes our predecessors did.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51746154]HMy point is that you can't simply say, nationalism is the problem, and rip into it. You have to work on the root cause. Anything else just feeds the insatiable fury of the people who don't feel like they are being listened to.[/QUOTE]
Economics. Like it happened in the 30s, there was a big economic crisis that made either most of the people see their incomes greatly reduced, or just directly becoming poor. The masses, after losing the faith in the traditional democracy as the political parties became corrupt, starts seeking for a solution, from everywhere. This is the part where someone uses the nationalistic/Xenophobic rhetoric that makes these people reach the power and become dictators.
We repeated the same mistakes, and unless a miracle happens (stop listening to the sensationalist media and start voting alternative political parties that fights back corruption and poverty), we are heading towards a new war (in the worst of cases, a worldwide one).
[QUOTE=El Periodista;51746214]Don't just blame one side for this. We're all responsible. Not just us in the media, although we do definitely mantle most of the blame, but everyone who tunes in, every blip on the hit counters on terrorism articles, every person who causes that spike in Google searches after a terrorist attack, or posts some kind of support on Facebook, everyone is responsible for this.
The public has turned terrorist attacks into a money printing machine for the media. The only way to fight back against that valuable fear that we spread is to avoid it entirely. Give us a reason to change our reporting styles and methods, because if we're not making money and selling ads, we're not going to stay on the same path.[/QUOTE]
The problem is with the all-encompassing reach of the internet it's almost completely impossible to avoid being exposed to it. Sensationalist headlines browsing aside, if you look for news [I]anywhere[/I] you're going to see articles about trump or terrorism or the end times being nigh. You have to go out of your way to not support institutions that thrive on it, and even then by doing so you're completely removing yourself from news altogether. Being removed from worldly events hurts yourself more than anyone.
[QUOTE=Killer900;51746299]Stop comparing Hitler to Trump that's like apples and [I]oranges[/I][/QUOTE]
apples and oranges are both fruit.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;51746489]apples and oranges are both fruit.[/QUOTE]
And they both grow from trees.
Although one has a bit more cyanide than the other. The other is just acidic.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;51746489]apples and oranges are both fruits.[/QUOTE]
ftfy like a fruit bowl
[QUOTE=Van-man;51746169]That raises the question, WHAT tells them there's something to fear when they haven't personally witnessed or experienced it?[/QUOTE]
Other people and mainly the news
People are scared of a lot of things
"there are very few jobs and they are harder to land"
"there are more and more immigrants on our soil"
"not enough money for everybody"
"they're stealing our few jobs, mistreating our citizens"
I've made a point of not watching the news anymore since all I get out of it is stress, anxiety and pessimism
I dislike how everyone's saying "Trump is nothing like Hitler, he hasn't done x/y/z."
You could apply that to anything! You could apply that to Hitler and Mussolini. "Wait second guys, Hitler is nothing like Mussolini, he was democratically elected! Hitler has BROWN shirts, not BLACK shirts!"
No two revolutionary leaders are going to have the exact same route to power. Stop discounting comparisons based on irrelevant minutia.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51746121]For the love of god(no pun intended) if nobody will listen to experts, historians, or[I] anyone[/I] who is qualified at least listen to the fucking Pope.[/QUOTE]
Why? He's just an old man in funny clothes. If your last bastion of hope lies with the Pope then I feel sorry for you.
[QUOTE=ferrus;51746806]Why? He's just an old man in funny clothes. If your last bastion of hope lies with the Pope then I feel sorry for you.[/QUOTE]
Because a lot of people dictate their lives by religion so I can only hope that the Pope talks sense into them.
[QUOTE=ferrus;51746806]Why? He's just an old man in funny clothes. If your last bastion of hope lies with the Pope then I feel sorry for you.[/QUOTE]
It was a previous pope who did a whole lot of work to take on the Soviets.
Im not religious, but there are occasional popes i can respect
I really wonder how Poland will take this. They're overwhelmingly Catholic. The Church supported Solidarity and helped Poland break free from Communist Party rule a few decades back. Now? Poland is enormously anti-Islam and huge swaths of the population are totally okay with oppressing a minority group through legislation and violence. You'd think the Pope would be a bigger influence on people's behavior, but it seems that the Christian message of tolerance and acceptance of your neighbors is flying right over people's heads.
It's not like Jesus has a whole parable about the poor Samaritan who showed mercy to the injured Jew, and he definitely didn't say "go and do likewise." It's not like he was all about breaking down hateful barriers. The Parable of the Good Samaritan is literally "help your neighbor even though you might have ethnic divisions that make you hate each other." Christians aren't doing a good job at that.
[QUOTE=Killer900;51746299]Stop comparing Hitler to Trump that's like apples and [I]oranges[/I][/QUOTE]
It's a valid comparison. There are many similarities between them in not only their rise to power and their policies.
He's concerned about growing populism [b]in Europe[/b]. I get that most of you guys are american but he isn't referring to your president or the US at all.
[QUOTE=Uberpro;51747006]He's concerned about growing populism [b]in Europe[/b]. I get that most of you guys are american but he isn't referring to your president or the US at all.[/QUOTE]
There's a growing populism movement here as well though. It's a problem happening throughout the western nations.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51746121]For the love of god(no pun intended) if nobody will listen to experts, historians, or[I] anyone[/I] who is qualified at least listen to the fucking Pope.[/QUOTE]
But Britain, for one, is tired of experts as you know! US is following suit too.
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