• Donald Trump says 'any negative polls are fake news'
    122 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Donald Trump has hit out at recent polls suggesting he has one of the worst early approval ratings in US history, saying that "any negative polls are fake news". A CNN/ORC International poll released on Friday found Mr Trump had the lowest approval rating of any new President, at 44 per cent.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-negative-polls-fake-news-twitter-cnn-abc-nbc-a7564951.html[/URL] [media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/828574430800539648[/media] How is this guy so delusional.
Trump is the gift that just keeps on giving.
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/828575949268606977[/media] He does what now?
considering he's not a legitimate US president, it's hardly surprising he is reacting poorly when people call him out for it
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51783992]considering he's not a legitimate US president, it's hardly surprising he is reacting poorly when people call him out for it[/QUOTE] He's legitimately elected in a system of democracy (albeit somewhat flawed). Don't start this. There are plenty of arguments for Trump being bad - that isn't one of them.
What like Gallup
[QUOTE=DogGunn;51783999]He's legitimately elected in a system of democracy (albeit somewhat flawed). Don't start this. There are plenty of arguments for Trump being bad - that isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] No, I'm going to argue that he's not legitimate and I think people should stop pretending that it is. The fact he was put in power by a convoluted system whereby primaries, party politics, gerrymandering, the electoral college, and the lack of accountability all combined to give a president that nobody wants, that is thoroughly unfit for the job, and is actively damaging the country. People should not treat this usurper as though he were the president, because I don't think he is the legitimate president. Saying all of this bullshit about the byzantine electoral system is just a smokescreen for a political system that has ceased to possess legitimacy.
Alternative facts? Alternative realities.
Rejection of the objective reality is a sign of madness
get this rambling madman out of the office
Current Year has been the best year so far!
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784010]No, I'm going to argue that he's not legitimate and I think people should stop pretending that it is. The fact he was put in power by a convoluted system whereby primaries, party politics, gerrymandering, the electoral college, and the lack of accountability all combined to give a president that nobody wants, that is thoroughly unfit for the job, and is actively damaging the country. People should not treat this usurper as though he were the president, because I don't think he is the legitimate president. Saying all of this bullshit about the byzantine electoral system is just a smokescreen for a political system that has ceased to possess legitimacy.[/QUOTE] just cuz the system's shit doesn't make trump an illegitimate president he's a retard but a legitimate retard
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784010]No, I'm going to argue that he's not legitimate and I think people should stop pretending that it is. The fact he was put in power by a convoluted system whereby primaries, party politics, gerrymandering, the electoral college, and the lack of accountability all combined to give a president that nobody wants, that is thoroughly unfit for the job, and is actively damaging the country. People should not treat this usurper as though he were the president, because I don't think he is the legitimate president. Saying all of this bullshit about the byzantine electoral system is just a smokescreen for a political system that has ceased to possess legitimacy.[/QUOTE] He is the legitimate president, elected legitimately through the system that has been election presidents for over 200 years. It is an objective fact that under this system, he is legitimate. Legitimacy isn't a moral value. I can't even tell if you're being serious when you call him a usurper.
[QUOTE=Bertie;51784032]He is the legitimate president, elected legitimately through the system that has been election presidents for over 200 years. It is an objective fact that under this system, he is legitimate. Legitimacy isn't a moral value. I can't even tell if you're being serious when you call him a usurper.[/QUOTE] I'd say legitimacy under a democratic system necessarily implies being the choice of the majority of voters.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51784031]just cuz the system's shit doesn't make trump an illegitimate president he's a retard but a legitimate retard[/QUOTE] if the system is shit then it's not very legitimate. the fact that the US is now a flawed democracy brings into question basic fundamentals of the government if it can end up with trump in power and yet people are somehow obliged to follow him along as he tries to bully judges into submission, attempts to squash free media, and tries to circumvent everything whenever possible. I do not think Trump is a legitimate president, simple as that. He's in power, yes, but I do not think he truly has the will of the people behind him. He does not represent his people.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51784037]I'd say legitimacy under a democratic system necessarily implies being the choice of the majority of voters.[/QUOTE] The type of indirect democracy in the US that has operated since before the 19th century never called for a majority of voters, only a majority in the electoral college. This system was never the same nor claimed to be the same as other democracies. Is it a flawed system that has elected someone unfairly? Debatable, many including me would say yes. Does that make Trump illegitimate? No.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784010]No, I'm going to argue that he's not legitimate and I think people should stop pretending that it is. The fact he was put in power by a convoluted system whereby primaries, party politics, gerrymandering, the electoral college, and the lack of accountability all combined to give a president that nobody wants, that is thoroughly unfit for the job, and is actively damaging the country. People should not treat this usurper as though he were the president, because I don't think he is the legitimate president. Saying all of this bullshit about the byzantine electoral system is just a smokescreen for a political system that has ceased to possess legitimacy.[/QUOTE] illegitimate ˌɪlɪˈdʒɪtɪmət/ adjective 1. not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules. "defending workers against illegitimate managerial practices" synonyms: illegal, unlawful, illicit, against the law, criminal, lawbreaking, actionable, felonious; Note that he was elected to his position in accordance with the law. It doesn't matter if the electoral system is shit or not - he is still legitimate.
The longer the charade that people pretend trump is legitimate goes on for, the more harm will be done - he uses the fact he won the election to blatantly commit severe injustices and to harass his rivals. This is something extremely dangerous to democracy. [QUOTE=David29;51784054]illegitimate ˌɪlɪˈdʒɪtɪmət/ adjective 1. not authorized by the law; [b]not in accordance with accepted standards or rules.[/b] "defending workers against illegitimate managerial practices" synonyms: illegal, unlawful, illicit, against the law, criminal, lawbreaking, actionable, felonious; Note that he was elected to his position in accordance with the law. It doesn't matter if the electoral system is shit or not - he is still legitimate.[/QUOTE] He was elected according to law, but not in accordance with accepted standards and rules I think. He is not legitimate no matter how much bullshit is used to mask this.
[QUOTE=KillRay;51784023]Rejection of the objective reality is a sign of madness[/QUOTE] I've been saying it for months, being in your own reality is a tell tale sign of dementia, his father had it and now he has it.
Trump won less than a plurality in the popular vote the majority of voters nationwide did not want him.
Trump isn't an illegitimate president but the United States does have an ineffective and broken democracy. That's why they now have an ineffective and broken President. The fact that the President is outright lying about things as petty as this is downright disturbing. When did Bush ever whine about something like this? Did Obama ever do this? Not even Nixon and other distasteful Presidents did this to my knowledge. Trump is just sad. And that's without sarcasm.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784055] He was elected according to law, but not in accordance with accepted standards and rules I think. He is not legitimate no matter how much bullshit is used to mask this.[/QUOTE] Accepted standards and rules are you win the electoral college and you get the presidency. Same as it always has been. le·git·i·ma·cy ləˈjidəməsē/ noun 1. conformity to the law or to rules. [I]"refusal to recognize the legitimacy of both governments"[/I] Trump won in accordance with the law and the rules of the US election system. 2. ability to be defended with logic or justification; validity. [I]"it is difficult to judge the legitimacy of the rumor"[/I] His election can be defended by the justification that he won under the same system that every other president won through. There is only one abnormal thing about Trump's victory and that is his losing the popular vote, but the popular vote was never a prerequisite to win.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784055]The longer the charade that people pretend trump is legitimate goes on for, the more harm will be done - he uses the fact he won the election to blatantly commit severe injustices and to harass his rivals. This is something extremely dangerous to democracy. He was elected according to law, but not in accordance with accepted standards and rules I think. He is not legitimate no matter how much bullshit is used to mask this.[/QUOTE] How was he not elected by the accepted standards and rules? I was under the impression that the Electoral College was an accepted staand add?
[QUOTE=David29;51784091]How was he not elected by the accepted standards and rules? I was under the impression that the Electoral College was an accepted staand add?[/QUOTE] The electoral college was pretty much not allowed to not vote for him. Which doesn't make sense since the whole point is to stop people like him from becoming president?
When people start believing into their own lies and live in a delusional world, they will become more and more unstable and will react to any external events through their interpretation. So there's gonna be a lot of stuff to marvel at over the next years...
[QUOTE=_Axel;51784037]I'd say legitimacy under a democratic system necessarily implies being the choice of the majority of voters.[/QUOTE] European Union's and it's council's rule is illegitimate then. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51784042]if the system is shit then it's not very legitimate. the fact that the US is now a flawed democracy brings into question basic fundamentals of the government if it can end up with trump in power and yet people are somehow obliged to follow him along as he tries to bully judges into submission, attempts to squash free media, and tries to circumvent everything whenever possible. I do not think Trump is a legitimate president, simple as that. He's in power, yes, but I do not think he truly has the will of the people behind him. He does not represent his people.[/QUOTE] Every single President in the US was illegitimate then.
The only thing I want is a normal President. I'd take eight more years of Bush over one more year of Trump
[QUOTE=Dracon;51784141]The electoral college was pretty much not allowed to not vote for him. Which doesn't make sense since the whole point is to stop people like him from becoming president?[/QUOTE] But isn't the College expected to vote according to the outcome in the respective states? Apologies if that's wrong - I'm a Brit so my knowledge on this is a bit fuzzy.
It's scary how he can ramble and spit bullshit like this every day, and somehow people will still support him.
[QUOTE=David29;51784160]But isn't the College expected to vote according to the outcome in the respective states? Apologies if that's wrong - I'm a Brit so my knowledge on this is a bit fuzzy.[/QUOTE] 26 states I believe allow their E.C. representatives to change their vote despite what their state constituency voted for.
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