Abortions of female foetuses to have males instead is being practised in ethnic communities in Brita
118 replies, posted
[quote]The lost girls: Thousands of ‘missing’ girls revealed by analysis of UK’s 2011 census results
The natural ratio of boys to girls at birth is 1.05, meaning that there are about 105 boys born for every 100 girls – the small balance in favour of boys is seen as nature’s way of counteracting the slightly higher mortality of boys in early life. When the sex ratio begins to exceed 1.08 – more than 108 boys for every 100 girls – then statisticians believe that some other factor must be at play, such as the selective abortion of female foetuses so that women can become quickly pregnant again with a boy. In some parts of India and China, sex ratios are as high as 1.2 or 1.4 are believed to be caused by widespread sex-selective abortions. The Independent commissioned data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) to see whether sex-selective abortions could be affecting sex ratios within families living in Britain. We used the data to test whether having a daughter as a first child raises the probability of a family’s second-born child being a boy.[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, serif][COLOR=#333333] [/COLOR][/FONT]All things being equal, the gender of the second child should not be affected significantly by the gender of the first born. However, we found that the sex ratio of second-born children was heavily boy-biased in the families of mothers born in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and that there was some evidence of this being the case in families of mothers born in Bangladesh. Specifically, we found sex ratios of between about 1.1 and 1.2 for the second child of these families – a heavy bias in favour of boys that could not be explained if the parents were completely “blind” to the sex of their offspring. Overall, the total number of “missing girls” in these families is conservatively estimated to be between 1,400 and 4,700 individuals if you also include sex ratio anomalies for parents born in Nepal and India.
There are two possible explanations for these missing girls and the sex-ratio anomalies seen in two-child families. The first is that it is a statistical feature of the fact that some families with two daughters quickly try for a third child in the hope that it will be son. This behaviour means that these families quickly move from the two-child category to three-child category, making the two-child category they leave behind more heavily biased toward boys. The idea of “don’t stop until you have a boy” is not as fanciful as it may appear – it was common among the English aristocracy when having a male heir was so important for primogeniture.
The second possibility is gender-selective abortions, notably women aborting female foetuses in the hope of getting pregnant again with a boy. This may well take preference over the “don’t stop” strategy in an age when controlling the overall size of your family is just as important as controlling its gender make-up. Statisticians from Imperial College tested both scenarios on the data supplied to The Independent by the ONS. They found that the “don’t stop until you get a boy” could in fact explain much of the sex-ratio anomalies seen in the two-child families of parents born in India, China, Nepal and the rest of East Asia. However it could not explain all of the anomalies seen in the families of mothers born in Pakistan and Afghanistan – and possibly Bangladesh. Put simply, our analysis indicates that gender-selective abortions must be taking place in these communities.[/quote]
[URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-lost-girls-thousands-of-missing-girls-revealed-by-analysis-of-uks-2011-census-results-9059905.html[/URL]
Please don't bring that shit into Britain. It was (slightly) understandable in Afghan, Indian and Chinese communities but in a place with Equality, or close to Equality you really [B]don't[/B] need to be bringing it there. It's pointless and will only cause problems down the road.
ya that's why places like Saudi Arabia have a 200-80 male to female ratio, complete sausagefest
I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore. If they start forcing us to do what they do, then we can start complaining.
[QUOTE=Secrios;43545377]I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore. If they start forcing us to do what they do, then we can start complaining.[/QUOTE]
They came here, they should live by our rules.
[QUOTE=Secrios;43545377]I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore.[/QUOTE]
When people's motives and thoughts end up going to create problems now, or down the road, it'll end up causing problems for others and your country. It is not to say eugenically to force them to have a girl if they get pregnant with one, but instead ask them to reconsider because it's not really reasonable to want a boy in the case of a society that tolerates and gives equal opportunities to both sexes.
Wasn't there a scandal a few years back about sex-selective abortions, only it was boys being killed?
[QUOTE=Sableye;43545372]ya that's why places like Saudi Arabia have a 200-80 male to female ratio, complete sausagefest[/QUOTE]
And yet they're against homosexuality.
Fuckin' hypocrites.
[QUOTE=Secrios;43545377]I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore. If they start forcing us to do what they do, then we can start complaining.[/QUOTE]
I might just add (it says in the article) that its being largely done illegally. You are not allowed to abort a child because you do not like the gender.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43545391]Wasn't there a scandal a few years back about sex-selective abortions, only it was boys being killed?[/QUOTE]
No, this was pretty much never a case. But a few countries did pass laws that prevent doctors from telling parents the gender of their baby until it is born. India was such an example, because of the sheer impact of it.
Well I personally have no issues with this as long as they actually want a male and it's not done for some stupid religious/cultural reason.
This sort of news is highly distressing to medical professionals like me.
I understand that you want a boy of your own to carry on your line, but why not just let nature take it's course? I also get that everybody can't keep having children or they can't take good care of them, given how expensive it is to shell out for a single child's needs, leave alone two, more of them can often be a crushing economical burden in a purely objective sense.
Gender selection has already caused great evils in the health sector here - there are too few girls to each boy in several of our states, maternal and fetal deaths have multiplied as a result of this, and it has added millions in healthcare costs each year to deal with this kind of issue, often leading to permanent infertility and death in the case of many pregnant mothers.
It doesn't help matters when they try to kill mothers who bear too many girl children either. There was a gruesome incident in the local papers a few days ago where they burned a mother to death for giving birth to three girl children, one after the other, and they would have killed the children too, if the police hadn't intervened.
This is a fucked up world we live in, that's the only thing I know for sure.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;43545430]This sort of news is highly distressing to medical professionals like me.
I understand that you want a boy of your own to carry on your line, but why not just let nature take it's course? I also get that everybody can't keep having children or they can't take good care of them, given how expensive it is to shell out for a single child's needs, leave alone two, more of them can often be a crushing economical burden in a purely objective sense.
Gender selection has already caused great evils in the health sector here - there are too few girls to each boy in several of our states, maternal and fetal deaths have multiplied as a result of this, and it has added millions in healthcare costs each year to deal with this kind of issue, often leading to permanent infertility and death in the case of many pregnant mothers.
It doesn't help matters when they try to kill mothers who bear too many girl children either. There was a gruesome incident in the local papers a few days ago where they burned a mother to death for giving birth to three girl children, one after the other, and they would have killed the children too, if the police hadn't intervened.
This is a fucked up world we live in, that's the only thing I know for sure.[/QUOTE]
Gender selection/modification is part of the future, it's going to happen like it or not.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545429]Well I personally have no issues with this as long as they actually want a male and it's not done for some stupid religious/cultural reason.[/QUOTE]
this shit right here - stop it.
You take what you get in the lottery of pregnancy and childbirth. Sex selection is immoral as fuck and has consequences down the line that are not pleasant. Too few women to marry means that there's more competition for those that are already there, and some people don't marry at all because they can't find Mr. or Mrs. Right.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43545387]They came here, they should live by our rules.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking about just the women who came here, I'm talking about all women. When a woman wants an abortion, the reason is no ones business. The act itself is all thats important.
This is a huge problem in China because they have "one child" limit. Since most kids were male they lack girls in their society, so getting a partner will be a problem for millions of Chinese men.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;43545442]this shit right here - stop it.
You take what you get in the lottery of pregnancy and childbirth. Sex selection is immoral as fuck and has consequences down the line that are not pleasant. Too few women to marry means that there's more competition for those that are already there, and some people don't marry at all because they can't find Mr. or Mrs. Right.[/QUOTE]
I do what I want, as long as you keep gene variety and only remove diseases cancer etc
we don't live in a world where there's a lack of female epidemic.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545470]I do what I want, as long as you keep gene variety and only remove diseases cancer etc
we don't live in a world where there's a lack of female epidemic.[/QUOTE]
Must I point out to you that we're already on our way to having too few women to go around?
Or must the average sex ratio in the world come down to 1500 men:200 women before people understand that something has gone badly wrong?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;43545494]Must I point out to you that we're already on our way to having too few women to go around?
Or must the average sex ratio in the world come down to 1500 men:200 women before people understand that something has gone badly wrong?[/QUOTE]
Can I have a link to source? plz
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545505]Can I have a link to source? plz[/QUOTE]
There's a graph in the OP, though that puts Britain at 1.005 boys for every girl. The [url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html]CIA world factbook (pretty reliable, normally)[/url] puts male to female at 1.005 boys to every girl too, and I imagine the WHO, NHS and a few other sources will give statistics too, as will the census data (used by the study in the article)
[url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html][/url]
Male to female ratios are actually pretty important to maintain, there's a reason it's a near 50:50 split by default.
Also, totally unrelated but interesting fact, Singapore has only 0.79 children born per woman est. 2013. Holy shit that could lead to problems later on.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;43545536]There's a graph in the OP, though that puts Britain at 1.005 boys for every girl. The [url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html]CIA world factbook (pretty reliable, normally)[/url] puts male to female at 1.005 boys to every girl too, and I imagine the WHO, NHS and a few other sources will give statistics too, as will the census data (used by the study in the article)
[url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html][/url]
Male to female ratios are actually pretty important to maintain, there's a reason it's a near 50:50 split by default.[/QUOTE]
I really don't see why the split needs to be 50:50, not to mention that by forcing to maintain this ratio
this limits people on the choice of boy/girl
As long as there's no SERIOUS imbalance I don't see how it's an issue.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545436]Gender selection/modification is part of the future, it's going to happen like it or not.[/QUOTE]
Designer babies are something different than getting abortions until you have what you want. There's basically 3 reasons when a normal doctor would condone an abortion.
a) there was something physically wrong with the baby. Either some negative mutation, issues with the gestation etc, which would prevent the child from living a normal life.
b) the baby creates an unnecessary risk for the mother
c) the parents know they aren't currently in a state where they could support a child.
Arbitrary deciding that you only want to support a boy and not a girl is pretty rotten.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;43545536]There's a graph in the OP, though that puts Britain at 1.005 boys for every girl. The [url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html]CIA world factbook (pretty reliable, normally)[/url] puts male to female at 1.005 boys to every girl too, and I imagine the WHO, NHS and a few other sources will give statistics too, as will the census data (used by the study in the article)
[url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html][/url]
Male to female ratios are actually pretty important to maintain, there's a reason it's a near 50:50 split by default.
Also, totally unrelated but interesting fact, Singapore has only 0.79 children born per woman est. 2013. Holy shit that could lead to problems later on.[/QUOTE]
You're looking fir fisher's principle. Essentially one of the reasons why there's slightly more boys than girls is partly because of China worldwide, but also due to the fact that generally girls survive to be older than boys.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;43545567]Designer babies are something different than getting abortions until you have what you want. There's basically 3 reasons when a normal doctor would condone an abortion.
a) there was something physically wrong with the baby. Either some negative mutation, issues with the gestation etc, which would prevent the child from living a normal life.
b) the baby creates an unnecessary risk for the mother
c) the parents know they aren't currently in a state where they could support a child.
Arbitrary deciding that you only want to support a boy and not a girl is pretty rotten.[/QUOTE]
Well that's your opinion, I think that as long as you keep variety and just remove things that cause harm like cancer etc I don't see an issue, and it's not really designer babies when you just choose the sex, I'm not for changing eye/hair color/growth etc..
Also if they're being aborted when they're just as bunch cells without being able realize they're own existence and they're not conscious beings, there's no moral issue in an abort, In my opinion.
[QUOTE=Secrios;43545377]I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore. If they start forcing us to do what they do, then we can start complaining.[/QUOTE]
These abortions are being done illegally, which also makes is dangerous for the women undergoing them since they could be performed by someone who has no idea what they're doing with nothing to fall back on if something goes wrong, arguments about their decision aside.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;43545567]Designer babies are something different than getting abortions until you have what you want. There's basically 3 reasons when a normal doctor would condone an abortion.
a) there was something physically wrong with the baby. Either some negative mutation, issues with the gestation etc, which would prevent the child from living a normal life.
b) the baby creates an unnecessary risk for the mother
c) the parents know they aren't currently in a state where they could support a child.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, too bad none of this is enforced as legally necessary, only that it is before a certain point.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;43545466]so getting a partner will be a problem for millions of Chinese men.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't sound too bad. They already have enough overpopulation.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545610]Well that's your opinion, I think that as long as you keep variety and just remove things that cause harm like cancer etc I don't see an issue, and it's not really designer babies when you just choose the sex, I'm not for changing eye/hair color/growth etc..[/QUOTE]
This post genuinely made me laugh in disbelief.
The gender you're born in tends to determine your role in life (though that's determined more thoroughly after the development process makes you reach adulthood, and your brain function reaches it's full potential), the things you get access to (in some cultures, boys get more privileges than girls, hell, this is often the case even in first world countries), to name just two things.
I think I'll leave it at that for now.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43545558]I really don't see why the split needs to be 50:50, not to mention that by forcing to maintain this ratio
this limits people on the choice of boy/girl
As long as there's no SERIOUS imbalance I don't see how it's an issue.[/QUOTE]
There's a reasonable deviation allowed - it seems to be normal that fewer girls are born than boys, you might find 1005 boys for every 1000 girls, which could (I'm extrapolating and using my own thoughts, which is very bad science) be due to a higher mortality in boys in childhood.
The main issue is if the ratio goes above a certain number, say 1.007 boys for every girl, it's pretty obvious that something is being done to affect the number of males born, or to reduce the number of females. It doesn't seem like much of a problem, until you realise that fewer kids are being had. To keep the population sustainable, we want an average of 2.something kids per married couple (to offset people not having kids) or else the economy is going to take a massive hit when the elderly are relying on a smaller number of supporting adults later on. If we have a huge bulk of guys, but relatively few girls, that's likely to compound the problem.
There's also the medical ethics side, which I don't feel I am qualified enough to talk about, past expressing my own beliefs that I think it is unethical to terminate a pregnancy based solely on gender, because you only want a boy. Terminations because of not being ready to have kids, conditions that threaten the quality of life dramatically and so on, I understand and accept, but I do not like the idea of saying "this baby is not what I want, I want another one that's a boy instead".
Also, where would you draw the line for a serious imbalance? Just curious - to put it bluntly, if the vast majority of parents in one particular group for some reason want a boy (or a girl, for that matter) then do only the special snowflakes among them get to abort and try again, or do we arbitrarily pick people who can? It seems much easier (and more ethical) to just say no abortions based on the sex of the child and let it all go normally.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;43545664]This post genuinely made me laugh in disbelief.
The gender you're born in tends to determine your role in life (though that's determined more thoroughly after the development process makes you reach adulthood, and your brain function reaches it's full potential), the things you get access to (in some cultures, boys get more privileges than girls, hell, this is often the case even in first world countries), to name just two things.
I think I'll leave it at that for now.[/QUOTE]
Well now that I think about it you're right, we should keep the sex to nature to decide.
but we should still remove cancer etc.
[QUOTE=Secrios;43545377]I know this might seem a little hands off; but we should really mind our own business. The moment we start inquiring people motives and thoughts, is the moment we can't live honestly anymore. If they start forcing us to do what they do, then we can start complaining.[/QUOTE]
They're aborting kids literally 100% based entirely on their junk and that is 100% percent indefensible.
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