• Greece are probably going to have to hold another election
    32 replies, posted
Update: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18041223[/url] [quote=BBC News][b]The leader of Greece's socialist party, Evangelos Venizelos, has abandoned efforts to form a new government.[/b] Mr Venizelos, the third leader to try to forge a coalition following Sunday's inconclusive elections, said he would meet the president on Saturday in a last-ditch effort to avoid fresh polls. There has been no breakthrough in Mr Venizelos' talks with other parties. Greece is deeply divided over budget cuts demanded in return for a bailout by the EU and the IMF. The country's debt crisis has raised the possibility it could default and be forced out of the eurozone. Following talks with other party leaders on Friday, Mr Venizelos told reporters: "I am going to inform the president of the republic tomorrow and I hope that, during the meeting with Carolos Papoulias, each party will assume its responsibilities." The president is expected to try to pressure parties into a government of national salvation - but the BBC's Mark Lowen in Athens says he is unlikely to succeed.[/quote] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18030786[/url] [quote=BBC News][b]The latest attempts to form a Greek government are said to be deadlocked, raising the prospect of fresh elections and more uncertainty for the eurozone.[/b] The chance of a deal are "very slim", a senior government source told the BBC. The leader of socialist party Pasok, Evangelos Venizelos, has been holding a series of talks with other party heads but has not made a breakthrough. Greece's debt crisis has raised the possibility the country could default and be forced out of the eurozone. German officials have kept up the pressure on the Greek politicians by warning that the country must stick to the terms of the bailout and repay its loans. Mr Venizelos is the third leader to try to reach a deal since Sunday's election produced a hung parliament. Earlier, there was some optimism that he might be able to form a coalition government with the centre-right New Democracy and the small Democratic Left party. However, Democratic Left leader Fotis Kouvelis later rejected this possibility. He said the left-wing Syriza party, which says the austerity measures imposed as part of the bailout are too harsh, must be part of any new administration. Syriza was the big winner in Sunday's elections and now has the second most seats, after New Democracy. The latest poll says it would become the biggest party if fresh elections are held. Sources have told the BBC that Mr Venizelos is now unlikely to succeed in forming a government and is expected hand back the mandate to the president on Saturday - barring any last-minute surprises. [b]The president would then probably summon all party leaders over the weekend for one last attempt at an emergency national salvation government. Failing that, elections could be announced on Sunday or Monday, our correspondent says.[/b] Mr Venizelos met New Democracy head Antonis Samaras on Friday morning, without making any public comment afterwards. He is later due to hold talks with Syriza's Alexis Tsipras. Pasok dominated Greek politics for most of the past four decades, but saw its support slashed - coming third with just 41 seats in the 300-seat parliament. Our correspondent says the party is deeply unpopular - seen as the architect of austerity, and tainted with allegations of corruption. Pasok and New Democracy formed the outgoing coalition but lost their majority in parliament. [b]'Irresponsible'[/b] After meeting the Democratic Left leader on Thursday, Mr Venizelos said progress had been made. Our correspondent said this meeting seemed to provide the framework of an agreement for a coalition that would lighten the austerity measures in Greece, renegotiate parts of the loan agreement but try to keep the country in the euro. They hoped to persuade New Democracy to accept the plan - those three parties would have enough seats for a parliamentary majority. But these hopes were scuppered by Mr Kouvelis, who told his party: "We will not participate in a government with [just] New Democracy and Pasok... Unless Syriza changes stance, we will have repeat elections." After meeting Mr Venizelos, Mr Samaras told his MPs: "We are fighting for a government to exist - and there is still hope this can happen." He said Syriza was being irresponsible but also hinted that their support might be needed to ensure that any government was "durable". New Democracy won the most votes, taking 108 seats, but Mr Samaras was unable to woo other party leaders. Syriza's leader also failed to form a government because of his insistence on rejecting austerity measures demanded by the EU and IMF. Pasok and New Democracy between them have 149 seats, two short of a majority. The Democratic Left party has 19 seats. As the prospect of fresh elections loomed, Thursday's opinion poll put Syriza in first place with nearly 28% of the vote - up from 16.8% - winning 128 seats. The Marc survey for private Alpha TV put New Democracy in second place with 20.3% and 57 seats, and Pasok third with 12.6% of the vote and 36 seats. The political deadlock has brought warnings from European leaders that debt-laden Greece could be thrown out of the euro if it does not stick to tough spending cuts and economic reforms. On Friday, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle told parliament: "The future of Greece in the eurozone lies in the hands of Greece. "We want to and we will help Greece, but Greece has to be ready to accept help. If Greece strays from the agreed reform path, then the payment of further aid tranches won't be possible. Solidarity is not a one-way street," he said. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told the Rheinische Post newspaper that Europe "won't sink" if Greece leaves the eurozone. Athens is due to approve fresh budget cuts worth 14.5bn euros (£11.6bn; $18.8bn) next month, in return for financial help from the EU and IMF worth a total of 240bn euros. [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60135000/gif/_60135057_greece_elect_results2_464gr.gif[/img][/quote]
The future is bright... I wont be surprised if Golden Dawn gets even more votes next time. They just need to crank up their statements more.
I like how they're afraid of calling GD a nazi or fascist party. It's like calling them ultra-conservatives or something.
- snip - Bad idea in retrospect.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35915240]I like how they're afraid of calling GD a nazi or fascist party. It's like calling them ultra-conservatives or something.[/QUOTE] The BBC seems to be pretty much ignoring GD, which is probably a preferable alternative to posting articles with a scaremongering headline like, say, "Neo-Nazis elected in the new Greek parliament"
Why is it a good idea to ignore or play down a rise in fascist reaction? [QUOTE=deltasquid;35915318]If they're holding new elections, they should limit the parties you can vote on depending on who got most votes or something like that. Otherwise we'll never get a clear majority over there.[/QUOTE] That's not really a majority then, just enforcing polarization. There's plenty of militant political currents in greece, so that's not really a good idea.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35915530]Why is it a good idea to ignore or play down a rise in fascist reaction? That's not really a majority then, just enforcing polarization. There's plenty of militant political currents in greece, so that's not really a good idea.[/QUOTE] Ehhh, that's true, but what's the alternative? If they vote all across the board again and again, then we'll get nowhere.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;35915559]Ehhh, that's true, but what's the alternative? If they vote all across the board again and again, then we'll get nowhere.[/QUOTE] Limiting the vote to those parties might just you know, give more seats to the Nazis?
Some sort of runoff system might work or electing some of the seats by a different system, but I presume that would require a change to the constitution which could be pretty fucking hard to do right now
[QUOTE=deltasquid;35915559]Ehhh, that's true, but what's the alternative? If they vote all across the board again and again, then we'll get nowhere.[/QUOTE] The turnout in the recent election was 65% or so, so I guess they might try to drive up turnout to see where it gets them. That might or might not break the deadlock though depending on which areas increase their turnout and which refrain from electing. Or if any party decides to protest these elections and abstain from running in them, that might also change things. Plus, I wager that the "established" parties might find ways to bully or get fear votes from those who voted other parties by feeding of anxieties and fears over the current situation and who can solve them. Still though, the anti-austerity sentiment runs high and it's easy to understand why. There's a lot of variables that can go many ways here.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;35915318]If they're holding new elections, they should limit the parties you can vote on depending on who got most votes or something like that. Otherwise we'll never get a clear majority over there.[/QUOTE] Last thing anyone needs is FPTP.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;35915697]Last thing anyone needs is FPTP.[/QUOTE] Myeah, I suppose so. I hope the Greeks will vote sensibly the next elections, then.
[QUOTE=Unsmart;35915235]The future is bright... I wont be surprised if Golden Dawn gets even more votes next time. They just need to crank up their statements more.[/QUOTE] No, I'm pretty sure it'll get less votes now.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18041223[/url] Venizelos has confirmed his talks have failed, and that there will be an all-party meeting with the president tomorrow for one last effort
they're mad that GD got seats
I'm sorry Smurfy, but it's "Greece [i]is[/i] probably going to have to hold another election". Saying "are" implies plurality. Greece is one country. Unless it's acceptable to refer to Greece as a plural, but I'm fairly sure it isn't.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35916634]Unless it's acceptable to refer to Greece as a plural, but I'm fairly sure it isn't.[/QUOTE] You passed up a "flock of Greece" pun. I am disappointed in you.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35916790]You passed up a "flock of Greece" pun. I am disappointed in you.[/QUOTE] Meh, you win some and you lose some.
If Greece goes to the nationalists, their future is fucked. Too bad that their 'socialist' is as socialist as Obama is to us.
Please Greece, do something wise and don't elect Golden Dawn. Electing jingoistic people in a time of economic crisis has never helped.
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;35917199]Please Greece, do something wise and don't elect Golden Dawn. Electing jingoistic people in a time of economic crisis has never helped.[/QUOTE] I'd imagine people are more likely to vote for the bigger parties, to prevent their votes being thrown away.
I apologize for not knowing much about Greek politics, but who do we want to win here?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;35917419]I apologize for not knowing much about Greek politics, but who do we want to win here?[/QUOTE] Anybody but the nazi's (Golden Dawn) and probably keeping the communists out is good as well.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Golden_Dawn_logo.jpg/150px-Golden_Dawn_logo.jpg[/img] Their symbol even looks like a swastika.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;35917862][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Golden_Dawn_logo.jpg/150px-Golden_Dawn_logo.jpg[/img] Their symbol even looks like a swastika.[/QUOTE] Somebody pointed out in the last thread it was a Grecian symbol of unity.
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;35918057]Somebody pointed out in the last thread it was a Grecian symbol of unity.[/QUOTE]I figured that much, but it's a pretty strange coincidence.
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;35918057]Somebody pointed out in the last thread it was a Grecian symbol of unity.[/QUOTE] So? The swastika was a symbol of good luck before the Nazis adopted it
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;35918057]Somebody pointed out in the last thread it was a Grecian symbol of unity.[/QUOTE] lets unite, for we are all under the same flag unless ur black and you came here from another country lol vote golden dawn
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;35918122]I figured that much, but it's a pretty strange coincidence.[/QUOTE] Their color schemes, eagles, sieg heils, celtic crosses and iron crosses are also pretty strange coincidences.
The colors don't help either.
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