• Trump 'sad' that NY bombing suspect will get medical care and a lawyer
    28 replies, posted
[url]http://www.npr.org/2016/09/19/494633030/trump-calls-it-sad-that-n-y-bombing-suspect-gets-medical-care-lawyer[/url] [quote]Donald Trump said at a campaign rally Monday that it's "sad" that the suspect in the weekend bombings in New York and New Jersey will receive medical attention and legal representation. The GOP presidential nominee told a crowd near Fort Myers, Fla., that it was due to the work of law enforcement that the "evil thug who planted the bombs" was caught. Ahmad Khan Rahami was arrested Monday after being injured in a gun battle with police in Linden, N.J. He is suspected to have planted pressure-cooker bombs over the weekend that injured 29 people in New York's Chelsea neighborhood. "But the bad part," Trump continued, "now we will give him amazing hospitalization. He will be taken care of by some of the best doctors in the world. He will be given a fully modern and updated hospital room. And he'll probably even have room service, knowing the way our country is." He added, "And on top of all that, he will be represented by an outstanding lawyer. His case will go through the various court systems for years and, in the end, people will forget and his punishment will not be what it once would have been. What a sad situation. We must have speedy, but fair trails and we must deliver a just and very harsh punishment to these people."[/quote]
[QUOTE] We must have speedy, but fair trails and we must deliver a just and very harsh punishment to these people. [/QUOTE] It takes talent to not see the contradictions you make within a single sentence
"We should treat them fairly but not treat them fairly" How many times has Trump gotten away with saying something like this only for people to jump out of the woodwork and say "actually, he meant something [I]completely different[/I] from what he said!
Tromsky Trump is a sociopath. Sad!
Takes on a different term, "oh the humanity"
The year is 2018 in Donald Trump's America. A terror suspect is shot and wounded after ambushing police. He is taken into custody and transported to a jail cell at police headquarters. He's given a bandage and told to wait for his sentencing. A few hours later an officer opens the cell to deliver the verdict, decided by a judge over the phone. But the suspect is dead, he bled internally and died on the concrete floor. For the first time that day, police contact the hospital, not for a doctor, but for a coroner.
it's an interesting scenario. the dingle is a citizen, so he does have those rights. at the same time, he plotted to commit acts of terror, and while nobody died there were people injured via his actions, so attempted murder/terror is certainly something to be tried for and could go down via civilian court, but if he's pledged himself to isis would that make him a war criminal?
"You have a right to consult with an attorney. If you are unable to afford an attorney, one will be provided for you at public expense." Pretty cut and dried if you ask me. Also, what are we supposed to do, let him bleed to death in a holding cell? Let his wounds go septic? Let his bones heal out of alignment so he walks with a limp for the rest of his life? No. Fuck off, Trump.
[QUOTE]"But the bad part," Trump continued, "now we will give him amazing hospitalization. He will be taken care of by some of the best doctors in the world. He will be given a fully modern and updated hospital room. And he'll probably even have room service, knowing the way our country is." He added, "And on top of all that, he will be represented by an outstanding lawyer. His case will go through the various court systems for years and, in the end, people will forget and his punishment will not be what it once would have been."[/QUOTE] It is a little depressing that there are innocent people and old veterans who don't even get this quality of treatment. I'm not saying we should deny the suspect his due process and basic human rights, but Trump brings up a valid point. However, it's only been about a day since the suspect was apprehended so who knows, maybe he'll end up dead in police custody and this speech won't mean much of anything.
Yeah, heaven forbid we treat this guy like a guy in the off chance we fingered the wrong dude for the crime! The nerve of us!
[QUOTE=Chonch;51076979]It is a little depressing that there are innocent people and old veterans who don't even get this quality of treatment. I'm not saying we should deny the suspect his due process and basic human rights, but Trump brings up a valid point. However, it's only been about a day since the suspect was apprehended so who knows, maybe he'll end up dead in police custody and this speech won't mean much of anything.[/QUOTE] i think the solution for those issues is to get those other people healthcare rather than denying suspects medical care in custody. Basically Sander's healthcare reforms.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51077021]Yeah, heaven forbid we treat this guy like a guy in the off chance we fingered the wrong dude for the crime! The nerve of us![/QUOTE] the dude had a shootout with cops. even if he's not the guy, he's done something.
I thought for acts of terror the Patriot Act gets invoked and most civil rights if not all get thrown to the wind? I believe each American citizen has the right to a fair trial, I just thought that the DHS had thrown those rights out a long time ago for cases of terror. [editline]19th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;51076979][B]It is a little depressing that there are innocent people and old veterans who don't even get this quality of treatment. I'm not saying we should deny the suspect his due process and basic human rights, but Trump brings up a valid point. [/B] [/QUOTE] When you take a step back and look at who suffers and who gets treated fairly in the country, it really seems off. We can provide civil liberties and medical treatment for terror and mass shooting suspects, but not often for the homeless or the poor. I don't have any proposals to fix this but it is certainly messed up. Public defenders often have too many cases to tackle individually so a lot of the time they just negotiate a fast plea bargain rather than stick out a trial to defend the client.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077081]I believe each American citizen has the right to a fair trial, I just thought that the DHS had thrown those rights out a long time ago for cases of terror.[/QUOTE] IIRC the jury is out on whether this was actually a terrorist act. Governor Cuomo says it's (Islamic?) terror, but the mayor of Chelsea, Bill de Blasio, is avoiding using that word until an investigation is done--a sensible reaction IMO. [editline]d[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51076942]The year is 2018 in Donald Trump's America. A terror suspect is shot and wounded after ambushing police. He is taken into custody and transported to a jail cell at police headquarters. He's given a bandage and told to wait for his sentencing. A few hours later an officer opens the cell to deliver the verdict, decided by a judge over the phone. But the suspect is dead, he bled internally and died on the concrete floor. For the first time that day, police contact the hospital, not for a doctor, but for a coroner.[/QUOTE] You're good at melodrama, you should work for the Trump campaign. Off-topic: in the same speech, Donald gives a super-over-the-top reading of "The Snake," a funny little poem I haven't heard since he came to my home state during the primaries. [video]https://youtu.be/H9KF3BhnXdM?t=1455[/video]
Guy is a piece of shit, but he needs to live if we want to find out more about his motivations. Then he can rot in jail like the scum he is.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077081]I thought for acts of terror the Patriot Act gets invoked and most civil rights if not all get thrown to the wind? I believe each American citizen has the right to a fair trial, I just thought that the DHS had thrown those rights out a long time ago for cases of terror. [editline]19th September 2016[/editline] When you take a step back and look at who suffers and who gets treated fairly in the country, it really seems off. We can provide civil liberties and medical treatment for terror and mass shooting suspects, but not often for the homeless or the poor. I don't have any proposals to fix this but it is certainly messed up. Public defenders often have too many cases to tackle individually so a lot of the time they just negotiate a fast plea bargain rather than stick out a trial to defend the client.[/QUOTE] nah, the ndaa doesn't apply to american citizens. the dude is a domestic terrorist. it's shitty, but he does still maintain legal rights in this odd case.
[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51077285]Guy is a piece of shit, but he needs to live if we want to find out more about his motivations. Then he can rot in jail like the scum he is.[/QUOTE] I think I can hazard a guess..
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077081]I thought for acts of terror the Patriot Act gets invoked and most civil rights if not all get thrown to the wind? I believe each American citizen has the right to a fair trial, I just thought that the DHS had thrown those rights out a long time ago for cases of terror. [editline]19th September 2016[/editline] When you take a step back and look at who suffers and who gets treated fairly in the country, it really seems off. We can provide civil liberties and medical treatment for terror and mass shooting suspects, but not often for the homeless or the poor. I don't have any proposals to fix this but it is certainly messed up. Public defenders often have too many cases to tackle individually so a lot of the time they just negotiate a fast plea bargain rather than stick out a trial to defend the client.[/QUOTE] You can't see a solution? Are you blind? Whether you want single-payer healthcare or not, it's a solution. Prisoners should be cared for, because whether they've done something wrong or not, you've taken away the option of caring for themselves. That's why they should get medical treatment and food, and if you're embarrassed that you can't provide the same for your country's poor - maybe you shouldn't vote for Trump of all people.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51077887]You can't see a solution? Are you blind? Whether you want single-payer healthcare or not, it's a solution. Prisoners should be cared for, because whether they've done something wrong or not, you've taken away the option of caring for themselves. That's why they should get medical treatment and food, and if you're embarrassed that you can't provide the same for your count ry's poor - maybe you shouldn't vote for Trump of all people.[/QUOTE] The fundamental problem with US criminal justice is that sentences are punitive, not rehabilitative. That problem makes people who enter the system stay in it. 'Criminal/Prisoner' is more of a longstanding label for people in the US than it is a temporary part of getting your life back together. A symptom of that is you have career criminals getting healthcare because they are part of the system, and the law abiding poor/homeless citizens get nothing. Im not saying we should strip healthcare from prisoners, but its fucked up when the people who follow the rules get treated worse than those who actively break it. I don't have a fix to throw out, I am just making an observation.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077909]The fundamental problem with US criminal justice is that sentences are punitive, not rehabilitative. That problem makes people who enter the system stay in it. 'Criminal/Prisoner' is more of a longstanding label for people in the US than it is a temporary part of getting your life back together. A symptom of that is you have career criminals getting healthcare because they are part of the system, and the law abiding poor/homeless citizens get nothing. Im not saying we should strip healthcare from prisoners, but its fucked up when the people who follow the rules get treated worse than those who actively break it. I don't have a fix to throw out, I am just making an observation.[/QUOTE] I have a fix - teach prisoners valuable skills so they don't have to commit crime, give them lower sentences, and step in earlier in their life by helping their family that will statistically be pretty poor. Then provide healthcare to every citizen in your country. The only reason you can't see a solution is because you don't want to. Because it runs contrary to everything your candidate has said.
Trump's a barbarian on par with those running Middle Eastern theocracies. Dude's a walking joke as far as the rest of the civilized world is concerned.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077909]The fundamental problem with US criminal justice is that sentences are punitive, not rehabilitative. That problem makes people who enter the system stay in it. 'Criminal/Prisoner' is more of a longstanding label for people in the US than it is a temporary part of getting your life back together. A symptom of that is you have career criminals getting healthcare because they are part of the system, and the law abiding poor/homeless citizens get nothing. Im not saying we should strip healthcare from prisoners, but its fucked up when the people who follow the rules get treated worse than those who actively break it. I don't have a fix to throw out, I am just making an observation.[/QUOTE] You're a Trump supporter complaining that our Justice system is retributive/punitive and not rehabilitative. How can you think this and support him in the same paragraph? Trump's not [i]at all[/i] in favor of rehabilitative justice. You're supporting a man who has [i]openly advocated for torture[/i] and yet you have the fucking balls to whine about how we need rehabilitative justice in our prison systems. You don't have a fucking clue.
[QUOTE=Pops;51076961]it's an interesting scenario. the dingle is a citizen, so he does have those rights. at the same time, he plotted to commit acts of terror, and while nobody died there were people injured via his actions, so attempted murder/terror is certainly something to be tried for and could go down via civilian court, but if he's pledged himself to isis would that make him a war criminal?[/QUOTE] This is exactly why we have trials, and rules of law and evidence. If people want to imprison him for being a war criminal/terrorist/whatever, it needs to be proven. The fact a person got arrested isn't proof of anything, it just means they got taken into custody. Trump seems to want to allow a simple arrest as being proof of guilt.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51076979]It is a little depressing that there are innocent people and old veterans who don't even get this quality of treatment. I'm not saying we should deny the suspect his due process and basic human rights, but Trump brings up a valid point. However, it's only been about a day since the suspect was apprehended so who knows, maybe he'll end up dead in police custody and this speech won't mean much of anything.[/QUOTE] What is the valid point? Because all I can see him saying is that we should deny the suspect his due process and basic human rights. [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077081] When you take a step back and look at who suffers and who gets treated fairly in the country, it really seems off. We can provide civil liberties and medical treatment for terror and mass shooting suspects, but not often for the homeless or the poor. [B]I don't have any proposals to fix this but it is certainly messed up.[/B] Public defenders often have too many cases to tackle individually so a lot of the time they just negotiate a fast plea bargain rather than stick out a trial to defend the client.[/QUOTE] Public healthcare, which your candidate isn't backing. What civil liberties?
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51077081]When you take a step back and look at who suffers and who gets treated fairly in the country, it really seems off. We can provide civil liberties and medical treatment for terror and mass shooting suspects, but not often for the homeless or the poor. I don't have any proposals to fix this but it is certainly messed up.[/QUOTE] I don't get why conservatives complain about this when they actively block laws to do this because they're "socialist"
Isn't the right to a lawyer part of the constitution?
Represented by an outstanding lawyer? Either this guy can afford a lawyer (so we aren't paying for it) or he's sure as hell not getting anyone outstanding paid for by the courts.
[QUOTE=Omali;51079832]Represented by an outstanding lawyer? Either this guy can afford a lawyer (so we aren't paying for it) or he's sure as hell not getting anyone outstanding paid for by the courts.[/QUOTE] Public defenders are so over worked and under paid they barely provide any form of defense what so ever.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51079350]I don't get why conservatives complain about this when they actively block laws to do this because they're "socialist"[/QUOTE] They don't want everyone to be brought up, they want others to be knocked down. Not that prisoners actually have good healthcare, when they can't even get real food.
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