• Greece fails in bid for early cash release, reforms awaited
    25 replies, posted
[QUOTE](Reuters) - Greece failed in a bid on Wednesday to secure a quick cash payment from the euro zone rescue fund to help stave off potential bankruptcy next month, raising pressure on Athens to deliver a convincing reform program within days. Athens had appealed for the European Financial Stability Facility to return 1.2 billion euros ($1.32 billion) it said it had overpaid when it transferred bonds intended for bank recapitalization back to the Luxembourg-based fund this month. But senior Euro zone officials agreed in a telephone conference on Wednesday that Greece was not legally entitled to the money, although they said they would consider how to deal with the issue in the future. The decision by the Eurogroup Working Group was a setback for leftist Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who is struggling to secure fresh funds to keep his government afloat while he presents a comprehensive reform plan and argues for debt relief. A source familiar with Greece's financial position told Reuters on Tuesday Athens would run out of money on April 20 without new cash.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/25/us-eurozone-greece-idUSKBN0ML1T620150325"]More in Source.[/URL]
All aboard the international economical crash train
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47395685]All aboard the international economical crash train[/QUOTE] Yeah, nah. Greece ain't that big. They're gonna get hammered with even more sanctions/fines/whatever by the rest of the eurozone for not playing ball though.
Maybe the Greeks shouldn't have elected someone who promised the moon.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;47395795]Maybe the Greeks shouldn't have elected someone who promised the moon.[/QUOTE] or maybe the germans might have considered slight restructuring programs, instead they didn't even work with greece i'm not saying they should forgive greece, but being so blunt against the new government both limits its effectiveness at home, and damages their willingness to comply later on
[QUOTE=Sableye;47395846]or maybe the germans might have considered slight restructuring programs, instead they didn't even work with greece i'm not saying they should forgive greece, but being so blunt against the new government both limits its effectiveness at home, and damages their willingness to comply later on[/QUOTE] The new government came in thinking that they would just go 'no' and all their problems would be over. Germany had to respond with such an attitude and put them in their place.
Can someone summarize what exactly caused Greece to drop off a financial cliff like this?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47396882]Can someone summarize what exactly caused Greece to drop off a financial cliff like this?[/QUOTE] Someone had a good video that really broke it down well in an old thread. To really butcher it into simple terms: Greece lied, Greece spent, Greece couldn't pay back fuck all when their debtors came calling.
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[QUOTE=Sableye;47395846]or maybe the germans might have considered slight restructuring programs, instead they didn't even work with greece i'm not saying they should forgive greece, but being so blunt against the new government both limits its effectiveness at home, and damages their willingness to comply later on[/QUOTE] I dunno, when the Greek government have to take the money reserves from stuff like the healthcare sector to pay it's employees (And avoid that problem, next one is up in a few weeks), something serious have to be made.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47396882]Can someone summarize what exactly caused Greece to drop off a financial cliff like this?[/QUOTE] Firstly, they were able to borrow a lot at low interest rates because they effectively had Germany backing their credit cards. Secondly, they borrowed a lot more than they could afford. Thirdly, they had a largely tourism based economy, which took a hit during the recession. To add to this they don't really make anything so their economy is unbalanced. Also, they had 2 civil servants for every one job, one from each side of the civil war, which bloated their budget. They also had some of the nicest and most expensive public welfare programs and earliest retirement. Oh, and tax evasion is normal.
[QUOTE=Aman;47396914]Someone had a good video that really broke it down well in an old thread. To really butcher it into simple terms: Greece lied, Greece spent, Greece couldn't pay back fuck all when their debtors came calling.[/QUOTE] This video? [video=youtube;C8xAXJx9WJ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8[/video] Also Greece had a pretty big military parade yesterday, even though their budget is going to absolute shit. Nice one
I feel like saying that when we say that "Greece is in crisis" we actually mean Athens. I've been all around Greece in the last week and I've only seen a big impact on Athens. The city contains a section where all the rich people live too so there's no crisis over their land, while the rest of the city is in poverty. I've been in Crete and the crisis trouble was relatively very low compared to Athens. I think it's because Crete has agriculture as well as tourism and some industries while Athens has just the last two so they can hold their own a little better. Honestly though being in Athens reminded me of Naples and it's not a good thing. So many closed shops and deserted buildings. I've seen none of that in and around Iraklion.
Who would have thought high rates of not paying taxes results in your country running out of money.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47395846]or maybe the germans might have considered slight restructuring programs, instead they didn't even work with greece i'm not saying they should forgive greece, but being so blunt against the new government both limits its effectiveness at home, and damages their willingness to comply later on[/QUOTE] Would you please do more research before posting about stuff you know nothing about? You do know greece lied itself into the EU, you know their mentality on paying no taxes at all which led to this mess, you know about the money they still got in swiss banks but decline to use to pay back their debts, you know how often they come up with "germany has to pay money for damages from WW2" when we already paid everything, and even aided them through all these years, and there is even more to this. [IMG]http://www.dw.de/image/0,,15754083_303,00.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=helifreak;47408655]Who would have thought high rates of not paying taxes results in your country running out of money.[/QUOTE] Yeah, couple that with a pension age that until recently was ridiculously low (57 years in 2010), and still is low by European standards. People saying Germany should be more cooperative don't really understand the difference in mentality here. I'm not saying Greeks are lazy, but it seems the people really lacked awareness of how their economy was running along, and how much they could afford to spend on pensions and whatnot.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47410935]Would you please do more research before posting about stuff you know nothing about? You do know greece lied itself into the EU, you know their mentality on paying no taxes at all which led to this mess, you know about the money they still got in swiss banks but decline to use to pay back their debts, you know how often they come up with "germany has to pay money for damages from WW2" when we already paid everything, and even aided them through all these years, and there is even more to this. [IMG]http://www.dw.de/image/0,,15754083_303,00.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] What the fuck, is this for real If I were german, I'd drop bomb on the greece. But that would escalate even into bigger mess.
[QUOTE=Fourier;47411323]What the fuck, is this for real If I were german, I'd drop bomb on the greece. But that would escalate even into bigger mess.[/QUOTE] Oh, thats nothing. You should see the latest (german) Spiegel magazine itself. [IMG]http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/44/44455/44455_1.jpg[/IMG] Guess we germans are all Nazis, please ban all the germans from Facepunch immediately. No please don't, how much money do you want? (Thats exactly how our politics work)
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47410935]Would you please do more research before posting about stuff you know nothing about? You do know greece lied itself into the EU, you know their mentality on paying no taxes at all which led to this mess, you know about the money they still got in swiss banks but decline to use to pay back their debts, you know how often they come up with "germany has to pay money for damages from WW2" when we already paid everything, and even aided them through all these years, and there is even more to this. [/QUOTE] Yeah, Greece lied about its deficit when it entered into the EU. But it was discovered soon after that the difference between the declared deficit and the actual one was extremely low. Not that it makes it better, rules are there to be followed, right? Well, Germany and France both broke the deficit rule first in 2003, and no one said a word (actually, the then-president of the Commission was told to [I]let it go[/I]). Also, Germany consistently breaks the rule about trade surplus even now by an enormous amount, and again, no one says anything. So when others break the rules it's bad, but when you do it, it's not? Pretty unfair if you ask me.
[QUOTE='[IT] Zodiac;47412773']Yeah, Greece lied about its deficit when it entered into the EU. But it was discovered soon after that the difference between the declared deficit and the actual one was extremely low. Not that it makes it better, rules are there to be followed, right? Well, Germany and France both broke the deficit rule first in 2003, and no one said a word (actually, the then-president of the Commission was told to [I]let it go[/I]). Also, Germany consistently breaks the rule about trade surplus even now by an enormous amount, and again, no one says anything. So when others break the rules it's bad, but when you do it, it's not? Pretty unfair if you ask me.[/QUOTE] Of course Germany and France aren't being held accountable for breaking rules, they're the most influential countries in the EU.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;47413490]Of course Germany and France aren't being held accountable for breaking rules, they're the most influential countries in the EU.[/QUOTE] Thanks for this illuminating bit of realpolitik, next you'll be telling me that water doesn't flow upwards. That's exactly the problem. Germany constantly tries to shift this economic crysis to a moral and cultural play, with the profligate debtor countries being lazy and corrupt, while constantly breaking rules themselves. Since all EU countries break at least a couple of guidelines or rules, it's kind of pointless to point fingers since the other country can just point it back. That's why no one does it. It's politically useless, since people are not stupid and are just going to point out the hypocrisy in your statements. But Germany decided to take the helm of Europe during a crysis and do just that. So why should I Spain, Portugal, Ireland, France, Italy or whatever listen to Germany, when they became the success story of the EU by consistently breaking for a decade one of the most important guidelines, the trade surplus ratio? If you want to make it about realpolitik, fine. It's idiotic from a political and rational point of view to dictate from a moral high-ground what others should do with their economies when you don't have the morale high ground yourself. People are going to ignore at best, and hate you at worst, and for good reasons.
Did I read it all wrong, or does this seriously mean: "We accidentaly gave you 1.2 billion euros (too soon), can we have it back now?" Not to say I agree or disagree with any side; but if I send money to somebody I make damn sure that I pay the right amount, to the right person. Who accidentaly sends 1.2 billion euros too much?
[QUOTE=Fourier;47411323]What the fuck, is this for real If I were german, I'd drop bomb on the greece. But that would escalate even into bigger mess.[/QUOTE]If we were to bomb countries for the shit their tabloids published, we'd have to nuke the entire world.
Unfortunately, even austerity measures will do little to reduce Greece's economic problems, because so many people depend on the government for income. Drastic cuts could reduce spending, but it may also reduce revenue, and result in no net change in deficit. It is a cultural problem. Greece simply offers too much in benefits to its citizens, far more than Germany or Britain do, and expects to pay for it all with deficit-spending off of Germany's credit.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47410935]Would you please do more research before posting about stuff you know nothing about? You do know greece lied itself into the EU, you know their mentality on paying no taxes at all which led to this mess, you know about the money they still got in swiss banks but decline to use to pay back their debts, you know how often they come up with "germany has to pay money for damages from WW2" when we already paid everything, and even aided them through all these years, and there is even more to this. [IMG][/IMG][/QUOTE] I read somewhere that Greece's geography makes it extremely difficult to administer. Due to that, tax evasion is high. And a whole lot of nations has lost interest in the country since the cold war ended.
[QUOTE=Saphirx;47422549]I read somewhere that Greece's geography makes it extremely difficult to administer. Due to that, tax evasion is high. And a whole lot of nations has lost interest in the country since the cold war ended.[/QUOTE] Up to €30 billion per year in due taxes goes uncollected in Greece.
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