• Police arrest Muslim whom they believe stabbed a French soldier.
    19 replies, posted
[img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02575/paris-Cordiez_2575529b.jpg[/img] [i]The suspect arrives at police headquarters in Paris.[/i] [quote]Serviceman Cédric Cordiez, 23, was attacked from behind with a knife or a box-cutter on Saturday in Paris’ La Défense business district. His tall, bearded assailant then fled into a crowded train station. Police are seeking to determine whether the Paris attack was inspired by the Islamist murder of a British serviceman in London last week. The French suspect – like one of the suspected London killers a recent convert to radical Islam – was arrested in Yvelines, just west of Paris early this morning. Sources close to the investigation said he has been a follower of a "traditionalist even radical Islam for the last three or four years." The suspect is known to police for crimes such as theft and possession of firearms. Today Mr Valls warned that there were “several dozen, or even several hundred potential Merahs in our country” - young people “who have already had trouble with the justice system over delinquency” and who “become radicalised” after contact with extremist Imams.[/quote] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10085946/Police-arrest-radical-Muslim-over-French-soldiers-stabbing.html[/url]
it's the countries fault for creating living conditions in which young people are immediately roped into a life of crime. france should really sort their shit out.
[QUOTE=lordOfShadows;40826102]it's the countries fault for creating living conditions in which young people are immediately roped into a life of crime. france should really sort their shit out.[/QUOTE] There's young people doing crime in every country, not only in France.
[QUOTE=lordOfShadows;40826102]it's the countries fault for creating living conditions in which young people are immediately roped into a life of crime. france should really sort their shit out.[/QUOTE] Broken Window Theory is at work around the world, dude. Everyone's still pretty much in recession.
[QUOTE=lordOfShadows;40826102]it's the countries fault for creating living conditions in which young people are immediately roped into a life of crime. france should really sort their shit out.[/QUOTE] Living conditions don't make people sneak up behind someone and slice their neck. irrationality, Mental issues, radical extremism do
[QUOTE=TheTalon;40826378]Living conditions don't make people sneak up behind someone and slice their neck. irrationality, Mental issues, radical extremism do[/QUOTE] Living conditions and general equality has a direct correlation with all 3. So yes, they do. There's a reason everybody is the way they are. People don't just grow up then decide to be radicals, everyone, including you, are a product of their society and their family.
I don't think poor housing and low income creates extremists. It creates criminals after monetary gains. Nothing was stolen from the soldier, right?
[QUOTE=Mattk50;40826711]Living conditions and general equality has a direct correlation with all 3. So yes, they do.[/QUOTE] Source?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40826835]Source?[/QUOTE] Socio-economic placing in a society can influence your actions, but by that logic Bill Clinton should have ended up as a pimp instead of the 42nd president of the USA.
[QUOTE=lordOfShadows;40826102]it's the countries fault for creating living conditions in which young people are immediately roped into a life of crime. france should really sort their shit out.[/QUOTE] Dude, we're talking about stabbing a guy for religious reasons, not to steal his wallet
[QUOTE=deltasquid;40826974]Dude, we're talking about stabbing a guy for religious reasons, not to steal his wallet[/QUOTE] They may use islam as a backing, but it's certainly not for "religous" reasons, as if it's some part of their religion to kill others, it's to instill fear.
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[QUOTE=deltasquid;40826974]Dude, we're talking about stabbing a guy for religious reasons, not to steal his wallet[/QUOTE] If he perceived himself as a part of the French society instead of having the them-and-us state of mind that so many people do in Europe, both immigrants and natives; he would not have been radicalized to do so in the first place.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40826082][img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02575/paris-Cordiez_2575529b.jpg[/img] [i]The suspect arrives at police headquarters in Paris.[/i] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10085946/Police-arrest-radical-Muslim-over-French-soldiers-stabbing.html[/url][/QUOTE] Vulcan mind meld right there.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40826835]Source?[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/violence_0.gif[/img] [img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/mental-health_0.gif[/img] [img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/education_0.gif[/img] (the source of the numbers used for the graphs you can find on the indicated site)
[QUOTE=Mattk50;40827757][img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/violence_0.gif[/img] [img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/mental-health_0.gif[/img] [img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/education_0.gif[/img] (the source of the numbers used for the graphs you can find on the indicated site)[/QUOTE] Can you show me suicide rates and equality?
There wasnt such a nice graph for it, but this paper: [url]http://www.unisg.ch/~/media/Internet/Content/Dateien/Unisg/Forschung/WorkAgeingAndWelfare/DP_Scala_200806.ashx[/url] contains suicide rates and compares them to not only income inequality but much more. Could make a graph using the same countries as above but i g2g now
[QUOTE=Mattk50;40828076]There wasnt such a nice graph for it, but this paper: [url]http://www.unisg.ch/~/media/Internet/Content/Dateien/Unisg/Forschung/WorkAgeingAndWelfare/DP_Scala_200806.ashx[/url] contains suicide rates and compares them to not only income inequality but much more. Could make a graph using the same countries as above but i g2g now[/QUOTE] Because the same source you used discovered that suicide rates went up in countries with more equality (something they downplayed). I have read the book. The evidence presented in the book is mostly a series of scatter diagrams, with a regression line drawn through them. No data is provided on the estimated equations, or on relevant statistical tests. The claim that "more equal societies almost always do better" is a universal, sweeping statement which cannot be substantiated by most of their data. When data from the OCED was used to try and replicate the findings, they found different results that didn't match the original conclusions of the book. [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB127862421912914915.html[/url] The book also cunningly ignores South Korea and the Czech Republic (which would skew the results beyond what was favourable to the authors), and is overall very dishonest.
WSJ articles are generally pretty dubious, but hadn't heard any of these criticisms about that source before. I'll have to look into it in detail, thanks. I see they have a rebuttal on their website, this should be entertaining... edit: oh god rebuttals of rebuttals of rebuttals here we fucking go. Maybe either side might choose to include the modified data sets and graphs next time they start a shit storm like this? By the way, i agree that "more equal societies will always do better" is far too broad a statement. However, i don't think that is the point being argued. Equality is just a piece of a much larger societal puzzle (and figuring out how human societies work is undoubtedly both one of the most complex and most useful information one can pursue today). In any case... the methods that supposedly weren't in the book (which to be clear i haven't read) are all [URL="http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/research/methods"]here[/URL] Their response to the cherry picking is this: Rather than ‘cherry-picking’ the data and counting countries in or out according to whether they did or did not fit our thesis, we included them warts and all’. For example, we include Singapore in our analysis of income inequality and infant mortality although it is a very significant outlier, claiming the lowest infant mortality in the world despite being the most unequal country in our dataset...[URL="http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/responses-to-all-critics.pdf"](this goes on in page 3 here)[/URL]. I dont see a problem here, they've outlined their selection criteria very plainly, and explained that they are deliberately excluding countries that are too far out of the range of "first world civilized society" due to an attempt to cut down on variables. The data mining accusations in the WSJ articles are rather weak without the modified data set they supposedly have (going back to my "please show the damn modified data sets if your going to try to rebut goddamnit"). And, i found this which (if i understand the gini coeffecient, which at 1 is a completely stratified society) seems to support that suicide went up as equality lessened: [url]http://jech.bmj.com/content/63/11/956.extract.jpg[/url]
Further reading into it the critics don't provide 1. nearly enough evidence and 2. good enough arguments. Theres a shitton of other criticisms too, but they are all pretty weak and basically boil down to "LEFTIST PROPOGANDA". Bit tired of societal discussions being poisoned by the crap from any moron who would bother spewing that trite.
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