• Germany flies spy-helicopter over US consulate to send a message to the Americans
    33 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-helicopter-searched-for-nsa-listening-post-in-frankfurt-a-921257.html"]Full article[/URL] [quote] The German government on Monday confirmed that a previously reported operation targeting potential American eavesdropping facilities located on German soil took place at the end of August. Both a spokesperson for Chancellor Angela Merkel and the Interior Ministry admitted on Monday that a Federal Police helicopter had conducted a low-altitude flyover of the United States Consulate in Frankfurt in order to take high-resolution photographs. The apparent aim of the mission was to identify suspected listening posts on the roof of the consulate. According to the newsmagazine [I]Focus[/I], the Eurocopter circled over the US representation at an altitude of just 60 meters (200 feet). [B]The magazine quoted an unnamed government official stating that Germany wanted to send a message to the Americans that it would not tolerate eavesdropping technologies on German soil. "The message to the American friends was meant to be: Stop. Germany strikes back[/B]!" The flyover was first reported last week by the [I]Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung[/I] newspaper. [...] The response by domestic intelligence would seem to belie German government attempts to play down the surveillance affair. The report in [I]Focus[/I] claims that the Frankfurt operation was ordered by Ronald Pofalla, Merkel's chief of staff and the German government point man for intelligence services. The politician, a member of Merkel's conservative CDU party, has made extensive public comments suggesting that the NSA affair has passed. But the report suggested he was furious at reports of spying technology at US diplomatic outposts in Germany.[...] But it doesn't appear there was anything routine about the Eurocopter mission -- if there had been, police would have almost surely notified the Americans beforehand. Instead, security personnel at the consulate appear to have been surprised by the flyover. They even took pictures as it happened during the morning of August 28. A short time afterwards, the deputy US ambassador telephoned with the German Foreign Ministry to discuss the issue. But what the ministry is now describing as an "information exchange," was apparently a complaint. [...] The German government left open on Monday the question of whether the flyover had provided any clarity about the suspected eavesdropping technology. The spokesperson said that only relevant committees in the national parliament would be informed. Still, experts believe the move was intended more as a symbolic gesture that as a serious effort to try to find surveillance equipment.[B] They believe that the Germans just want to show that if push comes to shove, they can also get more aggressive. One official spoke of a symbolic "shot across the bow." [/B][/quote]
If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] It's hard and softwired into just about all of our new technological infrastructure, it would take way more than just a bit of protesting. There would need to be a fundamental paradigm shift within 'The state'.
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] Are you out there protesting every day, then?
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] I just don't give a shit about the spying. Sorry I'm so ignorant.
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] Yeah, what sheeple, good thing im here on facepunch posting about it!
Germany, you need to learn something and take a lesson from history. The only way the US will recognize them is if you throw a plane or two at them. I should know, I was in New York that day. [sp]NSA pls dont kill me I really was[/sp]
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] Most people don't have a huge reason to care. A lot of Americans probably see that the government knowing they emailed their boss about a schedule change once is worth it if it means the same program could stop a bombing or something like that. It's not a great reason, but it's one that makes sense, especially considering that protesting over something like this seems pretty silly to most considering it doesn't have a huge affect on them, yet them protesting could get them into legal trouble, cause them to lose their job, etc. It's not even near worth the risk for most people when it doesn't even do much harm to most of them.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;42138977]Most people don't have a huge reason to care. A lot of Americans probably see that the government knowing they emailed their boss about a schedule change once is worth it if it means the same program could stop a bombing or something like that. It's not a great reason, but it's one that makes sense, especially considering that protesting over something like this seems pretty silly to most considering it doesn't have a huge affect on them, yet them protesting could get them into legal trouble, cause them to lose their job, etc. It's not even near worth the risk for most people when it doesn't even do much harm to most of them.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that America is an incredibly busy society and most people don't even have time. They work all day, come home, and like hell they're going to go out and protest something that doesn't effect them noticeably. They're going to sit down, watch TV, drink a beer, and try to unwind a bit. If they leave work to go protest, well, shit, there goes a vacation day. Nobody wants to use up their very sparse vacation days on a political protest. Basically the majority of people who would actually protest are college students and below, and the only people who have the ability to protest are in a pretty narrow age band of 18-20something, and then big groups of younger middle/high-school kids who don't have the ability to protest at all and who don't even understand how to balance a checkbook, much less engage in a protest. It's just not worthwhile in the personal lives of many people. Yeah, sure, it's for the benefit of the country etc, nobody cares if it doesn't change their day-to-day life. The most anyone will do is call a representative or shoot out some emails or letters. That's essentially the extent of political involvement of the individual. Nobody's going to sacrifice their job and the stability of their life for net neutrality.
The Reich strikes back! and gets bombarded back to stone age.
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] Sorry I have a full time job and family so I can't take up the noble cause, I guess that makes me sheeple then. You must have the free time to do so, so how about you?
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] Why are you guys getting defensive over this guys statement? He's not saying "Fuck you for not protesting" he's just stating that if people were protesting that would help, and he's absolutely right.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;42139971]Sorry I have a full time job and family so I can't take up the noble cause, I guess that makes me sheeple then. You must have the free time to do so, so how about you?[/QUOTE] You can just say it if you don't *want* to do it, but don't pretend you *can't*. Few people *want* to cut into their personal comfort and stability to fight for something impersonal like "society at large" or some ominous greater cause that may very well turn out to be a waste of time considering the size of the problem. That's exactly why people that step up anyway are so extraordinary, and sometimes even heroic if you think about how Snowden threw away what sounds like a dream life or Wesley Autrey who had his kids *right there by his sides* and jumped on the subway tracks to save the guy having a seizure anyway. It's not like activists and protesters and similar extraordinary cases all have no jobs, no families, nothing better to do. That's just plain insulting and disrespectful.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42140187]Why are you guys getting defensive over this guys statement? He's not saying "Fuck you for not protesting" he's just stating that if people were protesting that would help, and he's absolutely right.[/QUOTE] Occupy tried the protest route and look where that ended up. Protesting in the streets is becoming an outdated method of political change, while the Internet is gaining more prominence. It's now easier to leverage pressure against individual politicians than ever before. I'd say writing a letter to a Congressman would be a lot more effective than going out protesting for a day. It's such a complex issue that whatever message you can distill down to a sign and pithy slogan can't possibly adequately reflect your views on the subject. Writing to (or calling) your representatives lets you share your opinion directly.
Lets not piss off the Germans. That hasn't gone all to well the last two times its happened.
[QUOTE=Computrix;42138581]If only the ignorant masses in America would protest this spying shit more, things might change.[/QUOTE] The only things we really can do is wait until the next election and vote for whoever says they don't support this. Other than that they really don't give a shit about us protesting due to this not being a real democracy [editline]10th September 2013[/editline] Plus older people support this
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;42140926]Lets not piss off the Germans. That hasn't gone all to well the last two times its happened.[/QUOTE] A whole shit load of dead krauts. Seriously, fucking germans have tried to take over the world at every opportunity.
We will strike back when you expect it least
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;42140926]Lets not piss off the Germans. That hasn't gone all to well the last two times its happened.[/QUOTE] ...for the germans
[QUOTE=cNova;42141245]We will strike back when you expect it least[/QUOTE] Not if your military is also running XP with internet explorer.
How much you wanna bet the German's just used their troop transport quota of the month with that fly by?
[QUOTE=goon165;42141267]...for the germans[/QUOTE] Considering that 120,000 and 135,000 Americans were killed in WWI and WWII respectively, I wouldn't say that it went particularly well for anyone.
Awesome. God, it must be nice to live under a government that actually fights for people's right to privacy.
[QUOTE=Swilly;42141306]How much you wanna bet the German's just used their troop transport quota of the month with that fly by?[/QUOTE] Im not home. Im at work and we arent allowed to install chrome/firefox here
[QUOTE=cNova;42141366]Im not home. Im at work and we arent allowed to install chrome/firefox here[/QUOTE] Uh...what?
[QUOTE=Swilly;42141378]Uh...what?[/QUOTE] He most likely meant to reply to this post: [QUOTE=Propane Addict;42141287]Not if your military is also running XP with internet explorer.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;42141311]Considering that 120,000 and 135,000 Americans were killed in WWI and WWII respectively, I wouldn't say that it went particularly well for anyone.[/QUOTE] and Germany was demoted to economic ruin on both occasions. meanwhile America received an economic boom that single handedly yanked it out of the mists of economic stagnation and was firmly established as a world power. WWII was VERY good for America.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42140187]Why are you guys getting defensive over this guys statement? He's not saying "Fuck you for not protesting" he's just stating that if people were protesting that would help, and he's absolutely right.[/QUOTE] Because this is their one opportunity to appear clever and obtain the precious zing ratings.
Das Abwehr's back in town baby!
[QUOTE=Cruma;42142043]Because this is their one opportunity to appear clever and obtain the precious zing ratings.[/QUOTE] Here, baby Let me give you your Zing for today
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