• Proof Russia has sent troops into Ukraine? - Vice News
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[url]https://news.vice.com/article/nato-says-russian-troops-have-entered-ukraine[/url] [img]https://pp.vk.me/c622828/v622828720/83c3/7zaNQZPBYhA.jpg[/img] [quote=Vice News]Multiple columns of Russian soldiers and military equipment have entered eastern Ukraine over the last two days, NATO's top commander said in statement on Wednesday. Speaking in Bulgaria, US General Phillip Breedlove said that precise numbers were not yet known but that NATO officials had seen "Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops" crossing the border. "There is no question any more about Russia's direct military involvement in Ukraine," he added. This is not the first time the international military alliance has noted that Russian troops are active in Ukraine. Just last week NATO officials said that 200-250 Russian specialists were still active in Ukraine's east although most of its regular infantry had withdrawn. Since then however tensions have heightened in the region. Over the last week several military convoys have been spotted moving around east Ukraine's rebel-held territories sparking fear in Kiev and its western allies that preparation for a new offensive is be underway. Earlier this week the Organization for Cooperation and Security in Europe (OSCE) said it had spotted two convoys of military vehicles, including howitzers, tanks and Kamaz trucks, moving around the Donetsk region, all with their license plates removed. One of the columns sighted by the OSCE's special mission monitors also contained men in dark green military uniforms without insignia — a description similar to that of the Russian forces which covertly invaded Ukraine's southern peninsula, Crimea, earlier this year. The OSCE said it was unable to ascertain where the military columns had originated from, but authorities in Kiev cited it as supporting their claim that a convoy of 32 tanks, 16 howitzers and 30 trucks of ammunition and fighters had crossed into the Luhansk region from Russia last Friday. Consistent with the claims of a covert war being fought by Russia in Ukraine's east, an upcoming report from Armament Research Services (ARES) has documented substantial evidence of Russia's military presence in its neighbor's troubled east. "Vehicles, including main battle tanks (MBT), infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) and armored personnel carriers (APC) that were produced in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union are being used in eastern Ukraine. [b]These are vehicles which are not known to be in the Ukrainian government's inventory," ARES Director N.R. Jenzen-Jones told VICE News. Among the vehicles documented the in the ARES report are the BTR-82AM IFV and the T-72B3 MBT which "only entered Russian service in the last two years," he added.[/b] Yet despite ever-mounting evidence to the contrary, officials in Moscow continue to deny sending supplies of weapons or soldiers to bolster the rebels fight in Ukraine's east.[/quote] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/world/europe/ukraine-russia-military-border-nato.html?_r=0[/url] [quote=NY Times]KIEV, Ukraine — Tanks and other military vehicles pouring over the border from Russia into eastern Ukraine. Nightly artillery battles in the region’s biggest city, Donetsk, and reports of fighting around another regional capital. And now, sightings of the “green men,” professional soldiers in green uniforms without insignia, the same type of forces that carried out the invasion of Crimea last spring. A senior NATO official confirmed on Wednesday what Ukrainian military officials and monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe have been saying for days now: Russian troops and military equipment are crossing the border into Ukraine, seemingly preparing for renewed military action, though what exactly remains unclear. The statement drew stern and dismissive denials from Moscow, which for months has denied any military intervention in eastern Ukraine, though it has acknowledged publicly that Russian “volunteers” have crossed into Ukraine to support the pro-Russia separatists. In light of the military buildup, Western officials finally seemed ready to acknowledge that a cease-fire agreement signed in September had fallen apart, and that the threat to peace in Europe posed by the Ukraine crisis had returned in a possibly more virulent form. At the United Nations headquarters in New York, the Security Council held an emergency meeting on Ukraine — its 26th — where a top official, Assistant Secretary-General Jens Anders Toyberg-Frandzen, told diplomats he was “deeply concerned by the possibility of a return to full-scale fighting.” The official also expressed fear of what he called a “frozen and protracted conflict that would entrench the status quo in southeastern Ukraine for years or several decades to come.” The NATO official, Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, the group’s top military commander, said he was “concerned about convoys of trucks taking artillery and supplies into east Ukraine from Russia.” He said there were increased numbers of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, training militants including in the use of sophisticated weaponry.[/quote] [img]http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/12/1410535513508/An-unidentified-pro-Russi-012.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/armoured-russian-vehicle-inside-ukraine[/url] [quote=The Guardian]The Guardian has found more evidence of Russian military hardware operating inside Ukraine, spotting an armoured vehicle marked with the symbol of the Russian army's "peacekeeping forces". The armoured personnel carrier was well inside Ukraine, in Lutuhyne, a town near Luhansk, where a Ukrainian military convoy was destroyed by artillery and Grad missiles last week. Amid the remains of the destroyed Ukrainian column, three soldiers stood by an intact armoured personnel carrier on Tuesday afternoon. The men, who refused to be photographed, said they were from Russia and were not regular soldiers, saying they were paid mercenaries. They did not say who was paying them. Their vehicle was marked in three places with a blue circle and the yellow Cyrillic letters MC – the Russian abbreviation for "peacekeeping forces". Many of these have been seen moving on the other side of the border in recent weeks, and the vehicle's presence was yet more evidence of what Moscow has continually denied – that its soldiers are active in east Ukraine. In many cases, separatists have claimed that columns are not Russian military vehicles but trophies stolen from the Ukrainian army. However, the distinctive MC peacekeeping signs are only featured on Russian vehicles, used on peacekeeping missions in the Caucasus and Transnistria. "Ukraine's only peacekeeping missions are with the UN, and those vehicles are painted white. If it has the blue and yellow symbol, it has to be Russian," said Oleksiy Melnyk, a Ukrainian military analyst at Kiev's Razumkov Centre. [b]Half an hour after the APC was first spotted, one of the soldiers could be seen painting over the MC signs with black paint.[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46479881][img]http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/12/1410535513508/An-unidentified-pro-Russi-012.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I don't get it, it's the Ukrainian coat of arms Is the implication that the separatists drew it?
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;46480002]I don't get it, it's the Ukrainian coat of arms Is the implication that the separatists drew it?[/QUOTE] That's not your coat of arms, it's the MS symbol. I can clearly make out the cyrillic S. I can kinda understand seeing the coat of arms in it, but it's not. [img]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/russia.jpg?w=620[/img]
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[QUOTE=Xystus234;46480030][video=youtube;mykTcQo9TDI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mykTcQo9TDI[/video] There's your proof.[/QUOTE] That's not exactly very informative
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;4647988][img]http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/12/1410535513508/An-unidentified-pro-Russi-012.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Thus is so obviously a Russian soldier it's not even funny. Try to look like a separatist all you want with that non standard camo, but when I saw the guns in that picture it was painfully obvious it's a Russian.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;46480053]Thus is so obviously a Russian soldier it's not even funny. Try to look like a separatist all you want with that non standard camo, but when I saw the guns in that picture it was painfully obvious it's a Russian.[/QUOTE] But he has to be a rebel. He has no boots!
I thought it was already established that some of the rebels were getting APC's from inside RF. The Vostok battalion were proven to be operating inside Ukraine months ago and they brought BTRs with them.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46480068]I thought it was already established that some of the rebels were getting APC's from inside RF. The Vostok battalion were proven to be operating inside Ukraine months ago and they brought BTRs with them.[/QUOTE] They were able to deny them away because "Oh the Ukrainians, they have an army too! We stole them!" but they can't deny that fucking MS logo on their APC's now.
[QUOTE=proch;46480049]That's not exactly very informative[/QUOTE] I added some details.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46480080]They were able to deny them away because "Oh the Ukrainians, they have an army too! We stole them!" but they can't deny that fucking MS logo on their APC's now.[/QUOTE] True but the Vostok battalion inside donetsk with apcs was never claimed to be stolen I think, it just kinda got ignored or something. Russia will just say they sold surplus or provided the armoured vehicles without weapons attached (this is legal) or something. I don't see whats changed apart from the possible issues arising from using peacekeeping vehicles offensively (or defensively if the rebels are defending themselves vs the army/militias)
[QUOTE=Xystus234;46480030]There's your proof. It's a couple of Russian paratroopers captured in Donatesk with their [b]insignia clearly visible and they're speaking in Russian[/b], so there's already evidence that there's Russian troops in Ukraine.[/QUOTE] That's the Novorossiyan rebranded confederate flag, not anything showing linkage with a Russian military unit.
we've had proof before this. when you find a russian passport on a corpse with brand new western mil surp and vehicles and variants that are only in service with the russians plus the cover up of russian funerals you can kind of go figure this was russia.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;46480053]Thus is so obviously a Russian soldier it's not even funny. Try to look like a separatist all you want with that non standard camo, but when I saw the guns in that picture it was painfully obvious it's a Russian.[/QUOTE] It can't be a separatist with russian guns?
[QUOTE=SexualShark;46480119]we've had proof before this. when you find a russian passport on a corpse with brand new western mil surp and vehicles and variants that are only in service with the russians plus the cover up of russian funerals you can kind of go figure this was russia.[/QUOTE] Wasn't that tank variant thing proved fake? [url]http://www.janes.com/article/40139/ukraine-captures-russian-t-64-mbt-near-donetsk[/url] Was a picture from chechnya Doesn't explain all the "volunteers" though
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46480080]They were able to deny them away because "Oh the Ukrainians, they have an army too! We stole them!" but they can't deny that fucking MS logo on their APC's now.[/QUOTE] Essentially for every Russian vehicle that crosses the border, someone makes up an excuse.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46480064]But he has to be a rebel. He has no boots![/QUOTE] Ever looked at Afghanistan footage? The 1980's Afghanistan, not the reboot? Russians hate boots. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] The soviets actually bought several containers full of Chinese knockoff Adidas's (or were they Nikes? I can't remember) to issue soldiers 'cause their boots were so crap. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] Turns out I'm an idiot. Pumas. They bought containers full of Pumas.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46480142]Wasn't that tank variant thing proved fake? [url]http://www.janes.com/article/40139/ukraine-captures-russian-t-64-mbt-near-donetsk[/url] Was a picture from chechnya Doesn't explain all the "volunteers" though[/QUOTE] you are correct and that was from chechnya. there has been sightings of russian variants in ukraine though.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;46480358]Essentially for every Russian vehicle that crosses the border, someone makes up an excuse.[/QUOTE] They're actually all going for maintenance, it's just there's only like one mechanic who can fix all their APC's and he just happens to live in Ukraine. Yeah, take that anti-russian people.
[QUOTE=Riller;46480398]Ever looked at Afghanistan footage? The 1980's Afghanistan, not the reboot? Russians hate boots. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] The soviets actually bought several containers full of Chinese knockoff Adidas's (or were they Nikes? I can't remember) to issue soldiers 'cause their boots were so crap. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] Turns out I'm an idiot. Pumas. They bought containers full of Pumas.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b204/jake19drunkpunk/183fs0.jpg[/img] lol wow. I didn't know they were that bad that they would resort to wearing shoes that I personally dislike for being poor fitting.
[QUOTE=bravehat;46480675]They're actually all going for maintenance, it's just there's only like one mechanic who can fix all their APC's and he just happens to live in Ukraine. Yeah, take that anti-russian people.[/QUOTE] Bullshit! They're on leave and volunteered to go there.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46480717]Bullshit! They're on leave and volunteered to go there.[/QUOTE] Evidently Russia views vacations as much more violent than the vacations we take.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46480717]Bullshit! They're on leave and volunteered to go there.[/QUOTE] Not sure if you're joking or not with this one, but since it is the official explanation, I just kinda gotta wonder [I]why the hell Russia lets active-duty soldiers on leave go fight a war for illegal rebels?[/I]
[QUOTE=Riller;46481433]Not sure if you're joking or not with this one, but since it is the official explanation, I just kinda gotta wonder [I]why the hell Russia lets active-duty soldiers on leave go fight a war for illegal rebels?[/I][/QUOTE] Cause why not? Seriously, why everyone expects Russia to be soo charmingly caring about country that had no-block status for soo long but then suddenly flipped? When you go about geopolitics you gotta leave all the emotional crap aside to understand reasons for many actions, cause there is no place for "love and caring" in politics. An unofficial support was never denied, and Russian goverment knows about it, i wrote and i write about this soo many times - there are no idiots in goverments, everyone knows what they achieving. Unofficial support for rebels is a thorn up the ass that will ensure Ukraine won't crawl out of this mess, EU and NATO see Ukraine damaged, semi out of block status secured and Ukraine is too busy to even fucking try anything about Crimea. Black Sea is out of question, now to ensure no one to places rockets on it's gulf closer to Russia as it is. I really hope i was able to deliver my personal opinion on subject.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;46481561]Cause why not? Seriously, why everyone expects Russia to be soo charmingly caring about country that had no-block status for soo long but then suddenly flipped?[/QUOTE] Because it's illegal under Russian law
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;46481594]Because it's illegal under Russian law[/QUOTE] Actually it's not. There was even meeting at duma on subject, i posted about it in thread in regard of PMCs. They established that volunteers who go without payment are not goign bo threaten as criminals as long as their actions are not considered terrorist or against russia, i might look up english version for precise text thought.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;46481561]Cause why not? Seriously, why everyone expects Russia to be soo charmingly caring about country that had no-block status for soo long but then suddenly flipped? When you go about geopolitics you gotta leave all the emotional crap aside to understand reasons for many actions, cause there is no place for "love and caring" in politics. An unofficial support was never denied, and Russian goverment knows about it, i wrote and i write about this soo many times - there are no idiots in goverments, everyone knows what they achieving. Unofficial support for rebels is a thorn up the ass that will ensure Ukraine won't crawl out of this mess, EU and NATO see Ukraine damaged, semi out of block status secured and Ukraine is too busy to even fucking try anything about Crimea. Black Sea is out of question, now to ensure no one to places rockets on it's gulf closer to Russia as it is. I really hope i was able to deliver my personal opinion on subject.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure other countries don't allow their active duty soldiers to go fight in rebellions in other countries just because they got the weekend off.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;46481616]Actually it's not. There was even meeting at duma on subject, i posted about it in thread in regard of PMCs. They established that volunteers who go without payment are not goign bo threaten as criminals as long as their actions are not considered terrorist or against russia, i might look up english version for precise text thought.[/QUOTE] So, basically mercenaries are now legal as long as there's no proof of them being paid And Russia can invade other countries as long as the soldiers aren't ~formally~ in the Russian military
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;46481710]So, basically mercenaries are now legal as long as there's no proof of them being paid And Russia can invade other countries as long as the soldiers aren't ~formally~ in the Russian military[/QUOTE] That and we[B] ALSO[/B] getting full legal PMC. Just to make sure that when unofficial forces fail we can officialy use other official force but not soo official as army. This is a whole new definition to the [I]"just a tip"[/I] tactic.
Not a soul on earth believes that Russia isn't In Ukraine. Russia knows they're in Ukraine, and is trying to pretend it's not, but nobody fucking believes them. It's just a matter of "who's going to do anything about it."
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