German Filmmaker has 3400 children run over graves at Verdun to commemorate anniversary of Battle
68 replies, posted
[url]http://www.thelocal.fr/20160530/watch-was-children-jogging-the-wrong-way-to-commemorate-verdun[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36407564[/url]
[quote=TheLocal] The weekend commemorations, which were attended by François Hollande and Angela Merkel, included a scene, that was unusual to say the least for a war anniversary ceremony, where proceedings are normally sombre and unextravagant. Some 3,400 children from France and Germany ran among the graves of the fallen soldiers at Douamont to the backdrop of drumbeats, to represent the famous World War One battle.
The act was choreographed by German filmmaker Volker Schlöndorff and was designed to symbolise the chaos of the battle. [/quote]
[quote=BBC]France's Francois Hollande and Germany's Angela Merkel used Verdun as a symbol of both reconciliation between their nations and of EU integration.
Mr Hollande warned against "forces of division" in Europe. Mrs Merkel said nationalism "would throw us backwards". The two stood side by side in memory of the 300,000 soldiers killed at Verdun.
Some 4,000 French and German children also took part in a re-enactment of a battle choreographed by German filmmaker Volker Schloendorff. The ceremonies started early on Sunday, with the two leaders visiting the military cemetery at Consenvoye, north of Verdun, where 11,000 German soldiers are buried.[/quote]
video of incident in first source. terrible, and quite frankly disrespectful way to pay respects. if it wasn't at the graveyard, fine - but this was done on their graves.
[t]http://www.thelocal.fr/userdata/images/1464603034_Kids%20Verdun%20AFP.jpg[/t] [t]http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2014/05/14/18/v2pg-22-verdun-1-gettyv2.jpg[/t]
This reminds me of the weird "interpretive dance" for D-Day a few years back.
Why in the graveyard? I get what they were going for but like, in the graveyard? Why not at the site of the battle or like on the lawn?
I guess it's a contrast or some sort of statement like that. Fallen soldiers in battle in their graves and children playing now, like a result of their sacrifice is that kids can play there but I don't really get it either.
Doing it on graves is a bloody stupid idea.
Respect the dead.
Looks like a vengeance to the people who managed to get the concert of a homophobic and racist rapper cancelled.
Fuck those who decided these, great way to spit on the dead of the Battle of Verdun. The kids could just have lowered their pants and taken shits on the graveyard that it wouldn't be different at all.
You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and possibly no other.
[QUOTE=DELL;50451534]You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and possibly no other.[/QUOTE]
No one cares what you think, most people will find walking over graves to commemorate the dead disrespectful.
[quote]The act was choreographed by German filmmaker Volker Schlöndorff and was designed to symbolise the chaos of the battle.[/quote]
Well, what better way to symbolize the chaos of battle than thousands of people running around a place that's considered sacred?
In war, nothing is really sacred. This can be seen as a depiction of that.
[QUOTE=DELL;50451534]You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and possibly no other.[/QUOTE]
Do you not genuinely not understand the difference between that and designated war memorials? Or do you just want to throw in the counter-opinion for the sake of argument?
[quote]Mr Hollande warned against "forces of division" in Europe. Mrs Merkel said nationalism "would throw us backwards".[/quote]
A pan-European movement would not throw you backwards. Fostering a common identity for the nations and their citizens should actually be an important goal for the European Union as a whole because of the amount of diversity there is within it which Hollande is correct to warn about. Maybe it's not an issue now, but who knows what factors could come along in the future that could make it into one. The refugee crisis has put the union under strain, and it's times like this that present opportunities to strengthen relations and to plan for the future.
That traditional Völkisch "blood and soil-- France for Frenchmen, Germany for Germans, Italy for Italians, etc." bullshit nationalism is what you need to watch out for. If nations in the EU started thinking that way, it wouldn't survive. And that's bad, obviously.
[editline]4 June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=DELL;50451534]You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and possibly no other.[/QUOTE]
The dead may not care, but we the living still do. It's more for us than it is for them.
Having said that however, these men were still important. They had families and lives of their own at one time, they were participants in a conflict that completely shaped the history of the 20th century, and they sacrificed themselves in it. They deserve to be remembered for it even today.
What have you done with your life that's so great by comparison?
The intention was probably to mark how time passes, and history changes or whatnot, but to me this just screams bad taste. There's so many other things one could do to remember the battle and the fallen than this thing.
[QUOTE=Govna;50451573]A pan-European movement would not throw you backwards. Fostering a common identity for the nations and their citizens should actually be an important goal for the European Union as a whole because of the amount of diversity there is within it which Hollande is correct to warn about. Maybe it's not an issue now, but who knows what factors could come along in the future that could make it into one. The refugee crisis has put the union under strain, and it's times like this that present opportunities to strengthen relations and to plan for the future.
That traditional Völkisch "blood and soil-- France for Frenchmen, Germany for Germans, Italy for Italians, etc." bullshit nationalism is what you need to watch out for. If nations in the EU started thinking that way, it wouldn't survive. And that's bad, obviously.[/QUOTE]
I'm p sure that's what she is talking about, the context is incredibly clear when a German head of state is talking about "throwing us backwards".
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;50451484]Doing it on graves is a bloody stupid idea.
Respect the dead.[/QUOTE]
There's no need to respect the dead, they've ceased to exist. It's their families and friends whom we should be sensitive towards.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50451588]I'm p sure that's what she is talking about, the context is incredibly clear when a German head of state is talking about "throwing us backwards".[/QUOTE]
There's plenty of people who feel nationalism of [i]any kind[/i] is terrible and completely unacceptable-- even [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism]civic nationalism[/url], which makes no sense at all.
[QUOTE=Govna;50451573]That traditional Völkisch "blood and soil-- France for Frenchmen, Germany for Germans, Italy for Italians, etc." bullshit nationalism is what you need to watch out for. If nations in the EU started thinking that way, it wouldn't survive. And that's bad, obviously.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's the nationalism she's warning about since it's increasing lately with the economic and refugee crisis.
Forming an European identity is one of the EU's goals so she wouldn't be against pan-european movements.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50451565]Do you not genuinely not understand the difference between that and designated war memorials? Or do you just want to throw in the counter-opinion for the sake of argument?[/QUOTE]
No I do understand the difference and that there is none. For all war is who is right which if you're killing someone generally it's also gonna come down to who's right. I'm sure there are a bunch of corpses that do fall into the killed due to the other said they were the one in the right that have no memorials that people walk over. At the end of it all it doesn't matter be it war or natural stuff even the humans that care will die, and it will all be forgotten one day.
It's a waste to put any resources into this as it won't help humans progress into space or knowledge, reading a book is a much better way to go about learning about the pointless things humans did in the name stupid ideas. As no side was right or wrong just stupid for hindering human progress.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50451612]There's no need to respect the dead, they've ceased to exist. It's their families and friends whom we should be sensitive towards.[/QUOTE]
And there Family and friends say "Doing it on graves is a bloody stupid idea." and "Respect the dead."
[QUOTE=Govna;50451624]There's plenty of people who feel nationalism of [i]any kind[/i] is terrible and completely unacceptable-- even [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism]civic nationalism[/url], which makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE]
Some people mix nationalism with chauvinism I guess.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50451612]There's no need to respect the dead, they've ceased to exist. It's their families and friends whom we should be sensitive towards.[/QUOTE]
Really?
We respect the dead by literally every year paying respect to them by having minutes silence.
Their graves and their names etched into memorials are all they have left.
[QUOTE=DELL;50451633]
It's a waste to put any resources into this as it won't help humans progress into space or knowledge, reading a book is a much better way to go about learning about the pointless things humans did in the name stupid ideas. As no side was right or wrong just stupid for hindering human progress.[/QUOTE]
This is where you're utterly wrong. we serve to actively learn from the mistakes of the past by keeping them at the forefront of our memory. it's also one thing to read about death on the scale of WWI or WWII - it's another thing entirely to see cross after cross after cross after cross marking and memoralizing those who fell.
I can tell you the rows of crosses are far more likely to stick with and influence an individual about the sheer cost of war, far more than any book can.
[QUOTE=DELL;50451534]You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and possibly no other.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50451612]There's no need to respect the dead, they've ceased to exist. It's their families and friends whom we should be sensitive towards.[/QUOTE]
Why do we have celebrations about events that happened way back in the past? Why do we keep toys that we no longer use, regardless of how cheap they are? Why do we give people flowers? Why do we pay our respects?
It's like you guys are forgetting the meaning of sentimental value and respect.
And quite frankly, as someone deeply interested in history (napoleonic wars and wwi especially) and involved with reenacting, what sticks with people is the stuff you can show them.
Like I said, it's one thing to read about people who lived 100 years ago and the battles they took part in - its another thing entirely to hold and be shown different aspects - from monuments and memorials to the actual equipment. That's what sticks with people, that's what makes people stop and go "wow, this really happened".
Back in highschool my teachers let me teach a bit of the WWI unit (World History, AP US [teacher let me show off a bit, since we did have to move fast] and AP European History if you're curious as to what classes I did that in)). The thing that stood out to me was always the shock at the weight and size of the helmets I brought in - for a lot of people it finally clicked by holding that piece of history in their hands - it brought it to life.
Yeah kids with adidas clothing, nike shoes and plastic water bottles running over graves sure capture what kind of hell ww1 was
This is so disrespectful.
[editline]4th June 2016[/editline]
If my grave is going to have kids running on it please just dump me into a landfill instead.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;50451778]Yeah kids with adidas clothing, nike shoes and plastic water bottles running over graves sure capture what kind of hell ww1 was
This is so disrespectful.
[editline]4th June 2016[/editline]
If my grave is going to have kids running on it please just dump me into a landfill instead.[/QUOTE]
Not a bad idea, I mean you never see people running around Auschwitz do you?
[QUOTE=bdd458;50451659]This is where you're utterly wrong. we serve to actively learn from the mistakes of the past by keeping them at the forefront of our memory. it's also one thing to read about death on the scale of WWI or WWII - it's another thing entirely to see cross after cross after cross after cross marking and memoralizing those who fell.
I can tell you the rows of crosses are far more likely to stick with and influence an individual about the sheer cost of war, far more than any book can.[/QUOTE]
So show people videos of real war where people get shot and killed in the modern day. Better than seeing rows and rows of crosses. Unpleasant well that's the whole point and will tell people the cost of war way better than any marker.
[editline]3rd June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rainboo;50451694]Why do we have celebrations about events that happened way back in the past? Why do we keep toys that we no longer use, regardless of how cheap they are? Why do we give people flowers? Why do we pay our respects?
It's like you guys are forgetting the meaning of sentimental value and respect.[/QUOTE]
It's arbitrary as it only applies to the individual's preference. If look at the big picture it doesn't matter as all humans will fall and everything will be forgotten. Respect to the dead and sentimental value are a waste as it holds you in the past which is no longer needed once the lessons are learned.
[QUOTE=Govna;50451573]What have you done with your life that's so great by comparison?[/QUOTE]
Some knobhead sticks his head out of a ditch and that's great?
These men were forced to fight and die in a war they didn't really understand. Don't dress them up as noble paragons of justice and rightness, because that devalues the horrors of what they went through - I don't think, when they were trudging through mud and over dead bodies, they were filled with zeal for their fatherlands. They were thinking "oh God, I hope that if I die today it's quick". They were told to go and put on a uniform, and that's what they did. That's not a sacrifice; a sacrifice has to be willing.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50451920]Some knobhead sticks his head out of a ditch and that's great?
These men were forced to fight and die in a war they didn't really understand. Don't dress them up as noble paragons of justice and rightness, because that devalues the horrors of what they went through - I don't think, when they were trudging through mud and over dead bodies, they were filled with zeal for their fatherlands. They were thinking "oh God, I hope that if I die today it's quick". They were told to go and put on a uniform, and that's what they did. That's not a sacrifice; a sacrifice has to be willing.[/QUOTE]
This post has so much wrong with it. Part of the reason the war started was a sense of nationalism, and it's one of the reasons many signed up and kept fighting.
While I greatly admire all the anti-war literature that came out of the war (Seigfried Sassoon is my favorite poet after all), it was far from being the majority opinion.
[QUOTE=bdd458;50451958]This post has so much wrong with it. Part of the reason the war started was a sense of nationalism, and it's one of the reasons many signed up and kept fighting.
While Igreatly admire all the anti-war literature that came out of the war (Seigfried Sassoon is my favorite poet after all), it was far from being the majority opinion.[/QUOTE]
Have you heard of a thing called drafts? The only country I would say in any war that actually did it for nationalism would be Japan as they killed themselves for nationalism.
Which if you aren't willing to kill yourself in the name of it then no it's not real nationalism. Also I can lie about things saying this and that to get people to sign up for things that they think it's this but really it's completely different.
[QUOTE=DELL;50451534]You know I don't get why it's offensive over marked graves. News flash you most likely walk over hundreds if not a thousand corpses a day. You just haven't stopped to think about the fact that their are corpses everywhere.
Also the dead don't give a flying fuck they no longer exist within the human world and [b]possibly no other.[/b][/QUOTE]
*tips fedora*
[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;50451993]*tips fedora*[/QUOTE]
What? You can not prove there is an afterlife nor can you prove there is not, so it is just that a possibility. Now if you can show me some where in the physics that the energy of the brain is able to stay in a stable form after death well then that possibility is a certain instead.
So go do some math and get back to me you neckbeard with your fedora.
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