MOSCOW, March 30 (Xinhua) -- An immediate ceasefire and the start of peace talks in Libya are key priorities for the country, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday.
According to Russian state TV, Lavrov discussed the situation in Libya with Austrian Foreign Minister Michael Schpindler.
"The reforms (in Libya) have ripened, but what the Libyan state would be, this is up to the Libyans themselves. What is clear, this will be a different, democratic regime," Lavrov said.
The Russian foreign minister said that Moscow was concerned with the forceful developments around Libya and urged both sides there to start internal political dialogue.
He also expressed Moscow's disagreement with the intentions of some military operation's participants to arm the rebels.
"We completely agree with the NATO Secretary General that operation in Libya has been conducted for protection of the civilians, and not for their armament," Lavrov said, "Moscow is interesting in a faster cease-fire and beginning of talks."
He added that Russia could demonstrate different position during the vote over Resolution 1973 in the U.N.
Security Council in case the document would clearly define the limits of use of force.
"Russia always assumes that there is a need to avoid casualties among the civilian population and to prevent use of force against civilians. We would support Resolution 1973 if it offers use of force only for protection of the civil population," Lavrov said.
Source [URL]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-03/30/c_13805879.htm[/URL]
I didn't expect Russia to try and be a intermediate force in this conflict. We just need to stop this conflict before it turns into another Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.
EDIT: People rating my disagree, so you want Libya to turn into a long, money draining conflict?
Yeah, how about
No
I know that the United States won't support a 'democratic movement' without incentives for getting involved.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis]Russia is the last place I'd imagine to attempt to bring about a cease-fire[/url]
In Russia, peace talk with a gun pointed at your head
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;28894466][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis]Russia is the last place I'd imagine to attempt to bring about a cease-fire[/url][/QUOTE]
Just a little excessive force. Fucking tanks against a school? Are they crazy?
[QUOTE=crackberry;28894527]Just a little excessive force. Fucking tanks against a school? Are they crazy?[/QUOTE]
"They have a few soldiers with lots of hostages in a school... Hmmm ... INCENDIARY ROCKETS, BELT GUNS AND TANKS GO!"
[QUOTE=crackberry;28894527]Just a little excessive force. Fucking tanks against a school? Are they crazy?[/QUOTE]
Actually, bombs set up by the Beslan terrorists went off and caused the fire.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;28894886]Actually, bombs set up by the Beslan terrorists went off and caused the fire.[/QUOTE]
More than half of the causalities were caused by the Russians firing 125mm HE shells into the building from T-72s.
also [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis]this aswell[/url]
it seems the only thing worse than getting held hostage by radicals is getting rescued by Russian special forces.
Gaydaffi has been shelling the nearby towns with tank fire, 18 civilians have been killed, yeah, let's just stop everything and let this fucker live k :downs:
This is a must on every Libya related thread:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-0n4esNY[/media]
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;28894466][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis]Russia is the last place I'd imagine to attempt to bring about a cease-fire[/url][/QUOTE]
It seems the Russian's don't give a shit about how many civilians will die, as long as their enemy is killed with them.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28897724]It seems the Russian's don't give a shit about how many civilians will die, as long as their enemy is killed with them.[/QUOTE]
That's the Putin doctrine. In the Second Chechen war, Russia literary flatted Grozni.
Regarding those Russian hostage situations, I think most of you don't know how dangerous a raid like that is, the situation needs to be resolved fast. Although they did go over the top, that's for sure.
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;28897422]
it seems the only thing worse than getting held hostage by radicals is getting rescued by Russian special forces.[/QUOTE]
That reminded me of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis"]Moscow theater hostage crisis[/url]:
[Quote=Wikipedia]After a two-and-a-half day siege, [b]Russian Spetsnaz forces pumped an unknown chemical agent (thought to be fentanyl, or 3-methylfentanyl), into the building's ventilation system and raided it.[1][/b]
39 of the attackers were killed by Russian forces, along with at least 129 and possibly many more of the hostages (including nine foreigners). [b]All but a few of the hostages who died during the siege were killed by the toxic substance pumped into the theater to subdue the militants[/b].[2][3][/quote]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28897724]It seems the Russian's don't give a shit about how many civilians will die, as long as their enemy is killed with them.[/QUOTE]
Stop creating dumb and unsupported opinions like that. Rescuing innocent people is always the primary goal. The reason the firefight started was due to an accident that led the chechens believing that they were fired upon.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28897928]Stop creating dumb and unsupported opinions like that. Rescuing innocent people is always the primary goal. The reason the firefight started was due to an accident that led the chechens believing that they were fired upon.[/QUOTE]
They blew the fucking wall of the gym in and then decided to get into a fire fight with the Chechens while civilians filtered through the crossfire. Then in the Moscow incident they used poisonous gas in a building full of civilians.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28897978]They blew the fucking wall of the gym in and then decided to get into a fire fight with the Chechens while civilians filtered through the crossfire. Then in the Moscow incident they used poisonous gas in a building full of civilians.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't necessarily so deathly poisonous, but the gas was supposed to knock out the people in it temporarily. Yeah, some people were killed, but who knows what other extraneous factors came into play?
Plus, the chechens were the ones to fire first towards the direction of the military and civillians.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898094]It wasn't necessarily so deathly poisonous, but the gas was supposed to knock out the people in it temporarily. Yeah, some people were killed, but who knows what other extraneous factors came into play?
Plus, the chechens were the ones to fire first towards the direction of the military and civillians.[/QUOTE]
SOME?! Are you serious? Triple-digit fatalities is hardly what I would call successful, and by Western SWAT standards, that's a failed operation.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;28898204]SOME?! Are you serious? Triple-digit fatalities is hardly what I would call successful, and by Western SWAT standards, that's a failed operation.[/QUOTE]
It may be, but I've never heard of western SWAT teams dealing with a plane load of heavily armed militants taking a public building hostage. I could also argue that if the enforcement hadn't done anything and just stood there, the innocent hostages would've still died; or if they had followed through any other different plan, lots of people would've still died.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898094]It wasn't necessarily so deathly poisonous, but the gas was supposed to knock out the people in it temporarily. Yeah, some people were killed, but who knows what other extraneous factors came into play?
Plus, the chechens were the ones to fire first towards the direction of the military and civillians.[/QUOTE]
Anyone who knows anything about poisonous gas knows that you can't just pump enough to "knock people out". The amount of gas required to knock someone out is different for every single human being, and the amount to incapacitate a small child is not nearly enough to do the same to a fully grown adult. The amount required to be effective on an adult would kill a small child, and just about everyone smaller than the adult himself.
If the Russian Special Forces know less about poisonous gas than every single organization that works with helium in the world, than that says a lot about their competence.
That's not to mention that saying the Chechens fired first into civilians is about as strong an argument now as it would be if used in an Israel vs. Palestine argument.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898304]It may be, but I've never heard of western SWAT teams dealing with a plane load of heavily armed militants taking a public building hostage. I could also argue that if the enforcement hadn't done anything and just stood there, the innocent hostages would've still died; or if they had followed through any other different plan, lots of people would've still died.[/QUOTE]They pumped large quantities of a very poisonous chemical agent (a fentanyl derivative that beats WW1 chemical weapons in terms of lethality) into the building. It's difficult enough getting the right balance of anaesthetic in surgery on one person (that's why anaesthesiologists are so well-paid and trained), filling a whole building of it reeks of complete disregard for life, and severe incompetence. Not to mention the hostages weren't in good condition physically.
Then again, the Russians themselves had a lot to say about their own competence at the time.
[quote]The Spetsnaz officer bragged that the mood among the Alfa teams was skyhigh. 'This is our first successful operation for years.'[/quote]
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/27/russia.chechnya[/url]
[quote]"If it were a usual storming, we'd have had 150 casualties among our soldiers, added to the hostages."[/quote]
[url]http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1029/p01s03-woeu.html/(page)/2[/url]
[QUOTE=Regulas021;28898305]Anyone who knows anything about poisonous gas knows that you can't just pump enough to "knock people out". The amount of gas required to knock someone out is different for every single human being, and the amount to incapacitate a small child is not nearly enough to do the same to a fully grown adult. The amount required to be effective on an adult would kill a small child, and just about everyone smaller than the adult himself.
If the Russian Special Forces know less about poisonous gas than every single organization that works with helium in the world, than that says a lot about their competence.
That's not to mention that saying the Chechens fired first into civilians is about as strong an argument now as it would be if used in an Israel vs. Palestine argument.[/QUOTE]
You could argue that, but then again, the people inside the building had no warning that they were pumping gas into the building. In the case of that, people had to lie face down, otherwise, you'd drown in your own vomit. I know they weren't supposed to use gas in that kind of situation, but one can assume they didn't have much options and had to think fast.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898462]You could argue that, but then again, the people inside the building had no warning that they were pumping gas into the building. In the case of that, people had to lie face down, otherwise, you'd drown in your own vomit. I know they weren't supposed to use gas in that kind of situation, but one can assume they didn't have much options and had to think fast.[/QUOTE]
holy shit someone else has the last slice of pizza, gotta think fast
*beats them to death with a chair*
Well can you blame me? I had to act quickly.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898462]You could argue that, but then again, the people inside the building had no warning that they were pumping gas into the building. In the case of that, people had to lie face down, otherwise, you'd drown in your own vomit. I know they weren't supposed to use gas in that kind of situation, but one can assume they didn't have much options and had to think fast.[/QUOTE]
They had days to form a solution.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898462]You could argue that, but then again, the people inside the building had no warning that they were pumping gas into the building. In the case of that, people had to lie face down, otherwise, you'd drown in your own vomit. I know they weren't supposed to use gas in that kind of situation, but one can assume they didn't have much options and had to think fast.[/QUOTE]
So, you're saying that it's excusable they used a gas specifically designed to kill people, rather then a gas designed to incapacitate.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28898530]holy shit someone else has the last slice of pizza, gotta think fast
*beats them to death with a chair*
Well can you blame me? I had to act quickly.[/QUOTE]
I don't blame you if it was delicious.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;28898571]So, you're saying that it's excusable they used a gas specifically designed to kill people, rather then a gas designed to incapacitate.[/QUOTE]
Don't you hear me man? They had no time! [I]They had no time![/I]
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;28898588]I don't blame you if it was delicious.[/QUOTE]
^ A true Russian.
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