Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders
68 replies, posted
[quote]
Europe’s centre-left parties must reject the establishment – or watch the populist far-right win across the continent, Jeremy Corbyn has warned.
In a speech to Labour’s European sister parties, at the Party of European Socialists conference in Prague, the Labour leader warned that the populist right had correctly identified problems with the prevailing economic model.
But he argued the solutions of those anti-immigrant, anti-EU, and anti-Islam parties were only “toxic dead ends” that would not solve people’s problems.
Mr Corbyn’s comments come a day before Austria votes in a rerun of its presidential election – in which a far-right Norbert Hofer could be on the verge of victory.
Other countries across Europe have also seen extreme right-wingers poised to take power, with the Freedom Party leading in the polls in Austria and the Front National set to make the final round of the French presidential election.
“Politics has been shaken across the world. As socialists and progressives, we know very well why the populist right is gaining ground, and it is up to us to offer the political leadership needed for a real alternative,” Mr Corbyn told other leaders on Saturday.
“We know the gap between rich and poor is widening; we know living standards are stagnating or falling and insecurity is growing; we know that many people rightly feel left behind by the forces unleashed by globalisation, powerless in the face of deregulated corporate power.
“In many cases the populist right do identify the right problems, but their solutions are toxic dead ends of the past.
“They are political parasites feeding off people’s concerns and worsening conditions, blaming the most vulnerable for society’s ills instead of offering a way for taking back real control of our lives the elites who serve their own interests.
“But unless progressive parties and movements break with a failed economic and political establishment, it is the siren voices of the populist far right that will fill the gap.”
Mr Corbyn also called for centre-left parties to work together across the continent to come to the best solution on Brexit negotiations. [/quote]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-socialist-centre-left-leader-eu-party-of-european-socialists-a7453066.html[/url]
I'ts not just the establishment. It's also the recent leftist trend of of shutting down discussion of important topics for fear of sexism or racism, or political correctness in general. The left essentially makes itself stagnant, and so they've practically handed national discourse to the right wingers.
The irony is that Britain is one of the few countries in Western Europe where the Far-Right has actually been stopped in it's tracks.
Although Britain voted to leave the EU, Ukip never really gained much ground within the British political system, and now because of Brexit, Ukip are receding.
Seeing how a lot of the wealth gap globally has been coming from establishment policies from both leftist trade deals benefiting the wealthy and upper classes, lack of punishment from the establishment left on large global banks for causing the recession and the deregulation from both left and the right - Corbyn is right. But the public doesn't know who exactly is to blame so the populist right jumps on that.
I kind of feel Corybn is one to talk considering that he's simply not a good opposition leader really and did fuck all for the Remain campaign.
Centre-leftist political correctness is the cancer that is the growing-ground for the far-right and they only got themselves to blame, except they are so full of themselves and in denial that they see themselves as spotless and totaly pure. The anti-fascists are the new fascists whose actions will usher a new era of fascism, because people go from one extreme to another and it happens over and over again. Remember what Churchill said: “The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists.” Turns out he was right.
[QUOTE=St33m;51470111]I'ts not just the establishment. It's also the recent leftist trend of of shutting down discussion of important topics for fear of sexism or racism, or political correctness in general. The left essentially makes itself stagnant, and so they've practically handed national discourse to the right wingers.[/QUOTE]
Or pretty much everything concerning the refugee crisis. Most political parties were jumping down the throats of most right and far-right parties in West Europe a few years ago for suggesting that bringing in millions of them while holding Europe's borders wide open was a fucking retarded idea. And then, for every crime that happened due to them, those parties and their supporters just fucking stand there and let it keep on happening while pretending that they possibly couldn't have seen it coming and that it was an isolated incident even when it keeps on fucking happening. And even with a shaky Turkey deal with a borderline dictator who makes a mockery of our values, the Mediterranean is still wide open, with the EU running a very expensive and generous peddling service wherein whatever vessel is 10 kilometres out of the African coast gets a free trip to Italy and into the EU. No wonder that more and more people are giving the parties who called that refugees aren't bringing anything positive to our societies are growing in support over the last few years, especially how fucking poorly the establishment parties have handled it all. And even moreso in light of those parties having preferred to just accuse people who were critical of them with the usual buzzwords. It isn't 2015 anymore, that crap is definitively not working anymore, but I guess the establishment haven't noticed yet, since that hag Merkel still wants a new tenure as chancellor, and Juncker still isn't fucking off either. At least Hollande is down and out with his 4% approval rating. The people are getting more and more fed up with the endless excuses from the establishment parties and the EU for their constant screw-ups, and even moreso in the countries who have to pay the most per capita to the EU only to see the EU in their ivory tower in Brussels not taking the concerns of the people seriously at all.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51470194]Centre-leftist political correctness is the cancer that is the growing-ground for the far-right and they only got themselves to blame, except they are so full of themselves and in denial that they see themselves as spotless and totaly pure. The anti-fascists are the new fascists whose actions will usher a new era of fascism, because people go from one extreme to another and it happens over and over again. Remember what Churchill said: “The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists.” Turns out he was right.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't Churchill, but it was famous Italian writer Ennio Flaiano. That quote seems to get mistakenly contributed to Churchill quite often. Although you are right on the rest of it, Anti-Fascists are way more of a problem than far-right groups, given how they still get the protection from political left-wing parties even when they do stuff like assaulting innocent people, the police, and other emergency services. Or that they commit acts of vandalism to people the Anti-Fascists consider fascists, which in their eyes is everyone to the right of Karl Marx. And no, desecrating graveyards and trampling on graves isn't a valid protest like they did in the next city over here. The only remotely positive thing is that the average Anti-Fascist is a utter pillock with zero self-reflection, since more and more people are seeing their behavior for what it really is. The Anti-Fascists are more like the Blackshirts than the people they accuse of being fascists almost every time.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51470194]Centre-leftist political correctness is the cancer that is the growing-ground for the far-right and they only got themselves to blame, except they are so full of themselves and in denial that they see themselves as spotless and totaly pure. The anti-fascists are the new fascists whose actions will usher a new era of fascism, because people go from one extreme to another and it happens over and over again. Remember what Churchill said: “The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists.” Turns out he was right.[/QUOTE]
holy shit, what?
people arguing for political correctness are not the people trying to ban criticizing the government, repealing civil rights laws, and putting cronyism first
I find it to be mostly economics, it's just stagnantly poor in the eyes of most, hell, just look at how labour had fallen apart before with dipshits like blair that don't even deserve to be called "left wing" and ed milliband. Hopefully corbyn salvages it over there and provides a good example since Bernie didn't really get a chance to. People often turn to shit like reactionarism and nationalism during times like this, when the future is bleak and they have it rough economically
Also that's a lot of hyperbole and crazy political science in this thread lol.
Lmao @ them calling the FPÖ "extreme right-wing"
The far right is out maneuvering the far left and you can tell corbyn knows after brexit. It's positioning itself in defense of liberal values in the face of Islamic immigration and in defense of labors interest in the face of neoliberalism. The far left is afraid to do either because of PC, even opposing globalization is taboo
The far left is helpless and chained to the center left since the 80s. Corbyn is derided as a brocialist who didn't do enough to oppose brexit and some in the party threw a fit over it, Sanders a white male that appeals too much to the white working class and clinton out maneuvered him with basic center leftism. The core of the issue is that immigrants were imported during labor shortages after ww2 in part because they had no union traditions, and plus the center left is basically riding the coattails of globalization. The far left is afraid of being accused of being racist white males by liberals by declaring mass migration as class warfare, taking up positions like euroskepticism, and opposing our foreign policy in Syria and Ukraine.
How the far left was rendered helpless and basically relegated to being just postmodern antifa AKA stormtroopers for the neoliberal center left is probably the best proof political correctness is real and a cancer. It basically pushed civil libertarians and working class people to the nationalists, and the center left won't care because they'll feel vindicated, because all they're concerned about is the fact they are white males. The far left is sitting around irrelevant because it'll never win back the white working class
Basically what he's saying is that people are being lead to believe by the right that they have the solutions to the economic problems that they're facing when that might not actually be true and that the left has to break from the economic establishment and start fixing the economy if they want to fight off the right.
The left, being currently in power, doesn't have the luxury of just making up solutions that may or may not work like the right does.
This is all about the economy and not political ideals, if the right was in power now they'd be getting shit on as well for the poor economy and the left would be taking over with promises of solutions.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51470268]He is talking about the economy, and you people have made it about PC culture and refugees. Congratulations.[/QUOTE]
He has chosen to completely ignore the other factor that is driving people right. The establishment isn't the only thing giving power to the right, lunatic regressive lefties are too.
[QUOTE=download;51470577]He has chosen to completely ignore the other factor that is driving people right. The establishment isn't the only thing giving power to the right, lunatic regressive lefties are too.[/QUOTE]
Nobody cares about PC outrage dude. That shit doesn't drive people to the right, neoliberal economics does because that has a direct effect on people's livelihoods. The wealth gap is widening, the job market sucks and Trump won the white working-class demographic over with his economic liberalism and promise to keep jobs in America. Authoritarian populism is on the rise because of this.
I always hear that the supposed "PC" culture makes people vote right, but I never see any proof for that. Seems to me more like a bogeyman than anything else.
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51470597]I always hear that the supposed "PC" culture makes people vote right, but I never see any proof for that. Seems to me more like a bogeyman than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Though somewhat anecdotal I would use my own father as an example of a very left-leaning person going right in response to what he sees as political correctness gone mad.
[QUOTE=download;51470616]Though somewhat anecdotal I would use my own father as an example of a very left-leaning person going right in response to what he sees as political correctness gone mad.[/QUOTE]
I don't get it though. If it is really only because of the supposed "PC"-culture, why would he want to align with the ideals of the right-wing in all the other points, e.g. economically or socially (like LGBT rights)? It doesn't seem like he was very left-leaning to begin with.
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51470646]I don't get it though. If it is really only because of the supposed "PC"-culture, why would he want to align with the ideals of the right-wing in all the other points, e.g. economically or socially (like LGBT rights)? It doesn't seem like he was very left-leaning to begin with.[/QUOTE]
Do you agree with everything the party you vote for says? People put different weights on things they believe in when voting. In this case, my father finds people blaming white people for every social ill as some sort of shared guilt and people refusing to even acknowledge that most terrorists come from a Muslim background terrifying. As such if he was American he probably would have voted Trump even though he has historically hated the Republican party and other right wing parties.
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51470646]I don't get it though. If it is really only because of the supposed "PC"-culture, why would he want to align with the ideals of the right-wing in all the other points, e.g. economically or socially (like LGBT rights)? It doesn't seem like he was very left-leaning to begin with.[/QUOTE]
My father is another example who went racist right after dealing with political correctness (read bullying) for too long.
The reason you are asking this is because you don't see PC as bullying but "normal".
Ideologically unaligned people however see it for what it is. Passive aggressive manipulation.
It seems the left goes out its own way to create enemies and needlessly so.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51470630]What do you mean by a very left-leaning person[/QUOTE]
As long as I can remember he has been pro gay marriage, pro socialised everything, pro aboriginal rights, anti-war, pro taxing the rich... I can go on.
[QUOTE=download;51470672]As long as I can remember he has been pro gay marriage, pro socialised everything, pro aboriginal rights, anti-war, pro taxing the rich... I can go on.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like your father a) has extremely skewed priorities and b) is extremely gullible and/or ignorant to think all those issues wouldn't get [I]worse[/I] under a right-wing government.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51470509]The far right is out maneuvering the far left and you can tell corbyn knows after brexit.[/QUOTE]
The far right has realized all they need to do is say a bunch of bullshit and people will eat it right out of their hand. Trump got the middle class and working class to vote for a billionare who lives in a gold house and proposed several plans that benefit him and his friends.
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;51470693]It sounds like your father a) has extremely skewed priorities and b) is extremely gullible and/or ignorant to think all those issues wouldn't get [I]worse[/I] under a right-wing government.[/QUOTE]
You're completely missing my point. He has chosen to prioritise other things over those.
[editline]4th December 2016[/editline]
I must be going blind.
People who have spent a good part of their lives supporting economic and social equality react poorly to being told they share a collective guilt for crimes committed by others.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51470867]Did he change those beliefs as a result or simply who he voted for?[/QUOTE]
It's who he would have voted for if he was American.
He's still a leftie but he's going to vote against anyone who thinks he shares responsibility for the crimes of other because he's white.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51470194]Centre-leftist political correctness is the cancer that is the growing-ground for the far-right and they only got themselves to blame, except they are so full of themselves and in denial that they see themselves as spotless and totaly pure. The anti-fascists are the new fascists whose actions will usher a new era of fascism, because people go from one extreme to another and it happens over and over again. Remember what Churchill said: “The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists.” Turns out he was right.[/QUOTE]
No one knows where that quote came from, Churchill never said it. Not saying the quote isn't true, I just like being pedantic.
[QUOTE=St33m;51470111]I'ts not just the establishment. It's also the recent leftist trend of of shutting down discussion of important topics for fear of sexism or racism, or political correctness in general. The left essentially makes itself stagnant, and so they've practically handed national discourse to the right wingers.[/QUOTE]
Sorry mate, the current rhetoric that left wingers are shutting down arguments and refusing to discuss things is a crock of shit. This is a bipartisan thing, conservatives are just as guilty.
I simply can't believe that people are driven to the right by "politcal correctness gone mad"
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51470597]I always hear that the supposed "PC" culture makes people vote right, but I never see any proof for that. Seems to me more like a bogeyman than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Are you questioning the idea that "PC culture" exists or the idea that it makes people vote right?
I think both points stand. What it practically means is that when people talk about say, how they're wary of refugees and oppose taking them in, the response they get in the public sphere is vilification how they're racist and should stop thinking that, instead of a reasonable discussion addressing their fears and explaining why to change their opinion.
As a result, they remain unconvinced but discouraged to talk about their views, and they'll only find common ground in right circles and become more extremised. They'll also vote according to their views which have remained unchallenged due to being shut down in such a way.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;51472976]Are you questioning the idea that "PC culture" exists or the idea that it makes people vote right?
I think both points stand. What it practically means is that when people talk about say, how they're wary of refugees and oppose taking them in, the response they get in the public sphere is vilification how they're racist and should stop thinking that, instead of a reasonable discussion addressing their fears and explaining why to change their opinion.
As a result, they remain unconvinced but discouraged to talk about their views, and they'll only find common ground in right circles and become more extremised. They'll also vote according to their views which have remained unchallenged due to being shut down in such a way.[/QUOTE]
In essence both sides are locked in their own bubbles, causing increasing tension. It's like what kids do but adult version. The problem stems from both sides thinking they're 100% right, unwilling to talk to or listen to one another.
[QUOTE=Doozle;51472953]I simply can't believe that people are driven to the right by "politcal correctness gone mad"[/QUOTE]
It's a dual problem that both the left and the right are extremely intolerant of each other right now. There is no discussion. If you watch left-wing news sources, every conservative is an evil racist sexist homophobe who wants to kill all the Muslims and bring back slavery. If you watch right-wing news sources, every liberal is an evil degenerate communist who's going to destroy America with their extreme socialist policies which harm hard-working men and white people in favour of parasitic immigrants, and would prefer a nuclear war with Russia to cooperating with them.
The truth is, both of those groups are extremely noisy minorities, and it's better for everyone if people actually [I]talk[/I] to each other, work out why we have differing priorities, and work on a system which works best for [I]everybody[/I]. When people feel disenfranchised, they become more and more extreme. If the establishment continues to ignore the needs of the people, this will keep happening forever. However, I'm hoping they're starting to realise it- Hollande's announcement that he won't run for President again in France is potentially a good sign that 'standard' politicians are realising how hugely unpopular they've become.
I have [I]seen[/I] people being driven to the right by extreme political correctness. It's not the fact that it exists, it's the fact that anything even slightly against its orthodoxy is labelled as hate speech and the perpetrator all but lynched. Social media exacerbates this problem, because if you don't follow people with a variety of viewpoints, you'll almost certainly end up immersed in an echo chamber.
I know people who voted for Trump. A lot of them have legitimate concerns, and these concerns are not being addressed by other politicians. Trump is not the saviour of mankind, and he's not Hitler 2.0. But he's a different kind of politics- at the very least, in his rhetoric and his manner- and that's appealing to people. Rather than dismiss those people, it would do the left very well to work out exactly why he's popular, and see if they can appeal to those people instead.
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