• Humans Can't Be Empathetic And Logical At The Same Time
    32 replies, posted
[quote]Logic and emotion tend to be considered as polar opposites. Think about the analytic CEO—his actions make sense in the science of profit, but when it means using cheap human labor or firing a couple hundred employees, there’s an apparent lack of concern for the human consequences of his actions. Many choices are a struggle to compromise the two systems--and that may have to do with how our brains are wired. A new study published in NeuroImage found that separate neural pathways are used alternately for empathetic and analytic problem solving. The study compares it to a see-saw. When you’re busy empathizing, the neural network for analysis is repressed, and this switches according to the task at hand. Anthony Jack, an assistant professor in cognitive science at Case Western Reserve University and lead author of the study, relates the idea to an optical illusion. You can see a duck or a rabbit in the image, but not both at the same time. This limitation to what you can see is called perceptual rivalry. Jack's new study takes this concept beyond visual perception, and investigates how the brain processes situations. It found separate neural networks for social/emotional processing and for logical analysis. The study took magnetic resonance images of 45 college students as they were presented with problems involving social issues or physics. The MRIs showed that separate regions of the brain activated and deactivated according to the type of problem. Finding a balance between the use of the two neural pathways could give insight into treatment for neuropsychiatric disorders such as depression and schizophrenia, according to Jack.[/quote] Source: [url]http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-11/humans-cant-be-empathetic-and-logical-same-time[/url]
What's interesting is that people often make an association between reason and logic - But reason has little to do with pure calculation. It's a congress of both the mind and the heart. Therefore, logic can be said to be objective, while reason is entirely subjective.
This makes sense. I know I switch between the two when making decisions based on the situations.
But luckily, humans can remember information longer than two seconds, so we can think of empathy and logic separately then conglomerate the two with reasoning.
Is that why when confronted with some issues I freeze up? Because I am trying to use both?
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38327521]Is that why when confronted with some issues I freeze up? Because I am trying to use both?[/QUOTE] Could just be simple indecisiveness.
But we need to stick together and support one another to help ourselves in the long run, so empathy is logical.
[QUOTE=imptastick;38327541]But we need to stick together and support one another to help ourselves in the long run, so empathy is logical.[/QUOTE] That only matters if someone really believes we [I]have[/I] to stick together and help one another. It can be perfectly logical to assume that in a group, the group may hold the individual back. So in arguing the opposite, empathy can be not logical.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327559]That only matters if someone really believes we [I]have[/I] to stick together and help one another. It can be perfectly logical to assume that in a group, the group may hold the individual back. So in arguing the opposite, empathy can be not logical.[/QUOTE] The group can hold the individual back in the short term, but humans are social animals by nature. Too long without human interaction and we go mad. I am not saying empathy is always the best choice, but that it is illogical to completely deny it.
[QUOTE=imptastick;38327593]The group can hold the individual back in the short term, but humans are social animals by nature. Too long without human interaction and we go mad. I am not saying empathy is always the best choice, but that it is illogical to completely deny it.[/QUOTE] Maybe in the long run of several generations it's advantageous, but one should never underestimate the power of the human ego.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327618]Maybe in the long run of several generations it's advantageous, but one should never underestimate the power of the human ego.[/QUOTE] There is a reason we classify the lack empathy as a disorder, just because some people who cant feel empathy are successful does not mean it is the logical choice. Individuals that can empathize have better relationships romantically, professionally, and socially; this provides an advantage to them. Most people who can not feel empathy realize that they are better off faking it than flat out denying it.
[QUOTE=imptastick;38327670]There is a reason we classify the lack empathy as a disorder, just because some people who cant feel empathy are successful does not mean it is the logical choice. Individuals that can empathize have better relationships romantically, professionally, and socially; this provides an advantage to them. Most people who can not feel empathy realize that they are better off faking it than flat out denying it.[/QUOTE] I think you're being overly empathetic in thinking this.
its a moral debate of where we draw the line between logic and empathy. Empathy can delay and burden civilization while 'logic' as this article explains as cold and calculating would probably progress and advance it but at what cost?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327680]I think you're being overly empathetic in thinking this.[/QUOTE] Empathy has been observed in a large variety of animals other than humans, normally you will only see similar behavioral adaptions in multiple non-related species if the trait provides a significant advantage to the species. My argument is logical. The argument that empathy is illogical is in itself flawed logic; in that there are more often benefits to empathy than disadvantages.
[QUOTE=imptastick;38327749]Empathy has been observed in a large variety of animals other than humans, normally you will only see similar behavioral adaptions in multiple non-related species if the trait provides a significant advantage to the species. My argument is logical. The argument that empathy is illogical is in itself flawed logic; in that there are more often benefits to empathy than disadvantages.[/QUOTE] My original statement essentially said it depends on the individual. For some individuals, they can't survive without society where as there are others who do much better working and surviving alone. For the former, your statement is logical where as for the latter, it would be much more logical to not be empathetic. [editline]5th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;38327730]its a moral debate of where we draw the line between logic and empathy. Empathy can delay and burden civilization while 'logic' as this article explains as cold and calculating would probably progress and advance it but at what cost?[/QUOTE] I don't think there are many, if any at all, who actually make all of their social/group efforts for the "betterment" of humanity and it's progress as a whole. Any individual who works within a group does it for the benefit of themselves mostly first and foremost, second for the survival of those who they value with them, all in the present day. There are probably a very, very select few on this planet who do all they can "for humanity's progress" as a whole over themselves or those close to them.
[QUOTE=archangel125;38327224]What's interesting is that people often make an association between reason and logic - But reason has little to do with pure calculation. It's a congress of both the mind and the heart. Therefore, logic can be said to be objective, while reason is entirely subjective.[/QUOTE] I disagree; there's pure reason and practical reason. Pure reason is a priori while practical reason is a posteriori, making the latter the congress of the heart and mind.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327806] I don't think there are many, if any at all, who actually make all of their social/group efforts for the "betterment" of humanity and it's progress as a whole. Any individual who works within a group does it for the benefit of themselves mostly first and foremost, second for the survival of those who they value with them, all in the present day. There are probably a very, very select few on this planet who do all they can "for humanity's progress" as a whole over themselves or those close to them.[/QUOTE] What about scientists, what kind of prestige are they to gain? I think you are undermining humanities spirit of selflessness in times of need.
heh arguing morals even though they're subjective
[QUOTE=Vasili;38327967]What about scientists, what kind of prestige are they to gain? I think you are undermining humanities spirit of selflessness in times of need.[/QUOTE] For humanity as a whole, there isn't a "time of need". We have an ever expanding population and exponential progress with technology. There is no "necessity" for the species at the moment.
I think this is the first thread I've seen where the comments aren't just trying to bitch slap each other into submission.
What if one is left handed? sounds random, I know, but lefties... (at least the lefties in my family) We think differently. Vastly differently. My brother and I see things way differently than say, my parents.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327984]For humanity as a whole, there isn't a "time of need". We have an ever expanding population and exponential progress with technology. There is no "necessity" for the species at the moment.[/QUOTE] Of course there are necessities, medicine, technology to make us lazier etc. Humanity has experienced a lot of harsh times that have made us come together to work as a team. We're effectively designed to protect our young and elders and the weakest of the pack.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38327559]That only matters if someone really believes we [I]have[/I] to stick together and help one another. It can be perfectly logical to assume that in a group, the group may hold the individual back. So in arguing the opposite, empathy can be not logical.[/QUOTE] Social Darwinist detected
[QUOTE=obdob;38328390]Social Darwinist detected[/QUOTE] I said it can be argued logically the other way. No where in there did I say it was right. I am not a social darwinist.
Itt: [del]people[/del] so far Scorpius is trying to justify being absolute assholes while presenting themselves as superior logical beings
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38328444]Itt: [del]people[/del] so far Scorpius is trying to justify being absolute assholes while presenting themselves as superior logical beings[/QUOTE] You guys are really missing what I'm saying. I am not [B]justifying[/B] it. I'm saying it [B]can be argued[/B] the other way. My god, where did you people learn to read?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38328500]You guys are really missing what I'm saying. I am not [B]justifying[/B] it. I'm saying it [B]can be argued[/B] the other way. My god, where did you people learn to read?[/QUOTE] Yes. It can be argued. If you go by it, you are an asshole. What's not to understand?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38328500]You guys are really missing what I'm saying. I am not [B]justifying[/B] it. I'm saying it [B]can be argued[/B] the other way. My god, where did you people learn to read?[/QUOTE] They teach themselves.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;38328256]What if one is left handed? sounds random, I know, but lefties... (at least the lefties in my family) We think differently. Vastly differently. My brother and I see things way differently than say, my parents.[/QUOTE] You don't think that has more to do with how and when you were brought up?
[QUOTE=Falubii;38329535]You don't think that has more to do with how and when you were brought up?[/QUOTE] I'm not denying that our upbringing has something to do with it, but Mom has countless stories of me just being different. Getting booster shots as a wee one, I caught on [I]instantly[/I] that the buzzer on the wall that the nurse hit meant I was gonna get a shot. Caught on so quick that the buzzer [I]next door[/I] went off and I still flipped my shit. Stuff like that. And it is already known that each half of the brain specializes in different things, and that the brain controls the opposite side of the body.
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