So is this one better than TIS-100? I had a lot of complaints about that one. Character limits and line limits were an extremely dumb design decision and it needed a better interface for trying to follow what your code is doing. On top of that it could really have used a tutorial to teach you how to actually use the different commands properly. Figuring out how to make use of jumps and labels was a pain in the ass because the manual was literally completely useless for them. It was a neat concept but the execution was really not good at all.
Well it's a zachtronics game alright
"you can be an electrical/systems engineer but with limitations which never existed in real life"
[QUOTE=Drury;51390448]That was quick.[/QUOTE]
Zachtronics doesn't do early access like other indies - it's more like an open beta. He releases into early access when the game is feature complete, and uses the feedback to help guide that last bit of polish.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;51390530]So is this one better than TIS-100? I had a lot of complaints about that one. Character limits and line limits were an extremely dumb design decision and it needed a better interface for trying to follow what your code is doing. On top of that it could really have used a tutorial to teach you how to actually use the different commands properly. Figuring out how to make use of jumps and labels was a pain in the ass because the manual was literally completely useless for them. It was a neat concept but the execution was really not good at all.[/QUOTE]
Personally I liked TIS-100 more. It set out to what it wanted to do and did exactly that. The only challenge (besides the objectives) was the high learning curve of learning an Assembly-like language with nothing but a single register at your disposal.
SHENZHOU tries to be like TIS-100 but went backwards in some aspects. The EE/CS theme is fine. The Assembly programming is pretty much the same, with more instructions at your disposal. The problem is that the user manual is much larger comparatively and it's mostly filled with junk. The instructions for each mission are deliberately vague as fuck. Often times I tried to discover the solution by looking at the expected output rather than continuously wasting time on reading unhelpful instructions. And then you have missions that require you to reference the manual for even more reading. This was a pretty quick summary of some of my thoughts. Though I can say that, at the end of the day, I didn't have nearly as much fun as with previous Zachtronic games. I ended up spending a lot less time playing the game and a lot more time reading than I would have liked.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;51390530]So is this one better than TIS-100? I had a lot of complaints about that one. Character limits and line limits were an extremely dumb design decision and it needed a better interface for trying to follow what your code is doing. On top of that it could really have used a tutorial to teach you how to actually use the different commands properly. Figuring out how to make use of jumps and labels was a pain in the ass because the manual was literally completely useless for them. It was a neat concept but the execution was really not good at all.[/QUOTE]
Shenzhen I/O has character limits and line limits based on the type of microprocessors you use with bigger ones offering more space. Optimization calls for having fewer lines (power use), fewer microprocessors (cost of manufacture), and of course cycle count. Although honestly I haven't run into any issues with space just yet.
There are tools to let you enter break points and run your code through step-by-step or cycle-by-cycle for debugging. If anything getting used to using xbus is the hardest thing when you start.
The game manual is like 30 pages long and you will probably want to print it out and put it in a binder so you don't have to sift through a PDF every time you want to reference something. Pre-orders actually came with a physical one mailed to your address but that window is long passed.
Jumps and labels are pretty straightforward and the manual takes care of it adequately, I'd posit.
Personally, I feel that this installment is more refined than TIS-100 was and I enjoyed it more. But I know it won't be for everyone's tastes, as seen in the post above.
[QUOTE=Worstcase;51391740]Often times I tried to discover the solution by looking at the expected output rather than continuously wasting time on reading unhelpful instructions. And then you have missions that require you to reference the manual for even more reading. This was a pretty quick summary of some of my thoughts. Though I can say that, at the end of the day, I didn't have nearly as much fun as with previous Zachtronic games. I ended up spending a lot less time playing the game and a lot more time reading than I would have liked.[/QUOTE]
That sounds like something they should really refine then. For a game that's intended to be playable by people who have never programmed before, according to the store page, the instructions for missions need to be as clear and straight forward as possible.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;51391749]Shenzhen I/O has character limits and line limits based on the type of microprocessors you use with bigger ones offering more space. Optimization calls for having fewer lines (power use), fewer microprocessors (cost of manufacture), and of course cycle count. Although honestly I haven't run into any issues with space just yet.
There are tools to let you enter break points and run your code through step-by-step or cycle-by-cycle for debugging. If anything getting used to using xbus is the hardest thing when you start.
The game manual is like 30 pages long and you will probably want to print it out and put it in a binder so you don't have to sift through a PDF every time you want to reference something. Pre-orders actually came with a physical one mailed to your address but that window is long passed.
Jumps and labels are pretty straightforward and the manual takes care of it adequately, I'd posit.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like they've at least improved as far as character/line limits then. That was actually the single biggest reason I stopped playing TIS-100. I just could not fit my code in the pitiful 8 line limit so I couldn't get past one of the puzzles. And I couldn't follow exactly what my code was doing well enough to find a more concise way to manage it either. The manual probably won't be a huge issue in my case. With TIS-100 I just kept the manual open on my second monitor for when I needed to check over a command. (Most notably double checking how the JRZ command works I think it was. Whichever one allows you to skip future commands. Also double checking what a command actually was since a lot of them were so similar.)
I don't think I'll get it just yet but I think I'll keep an eye out for it going on sale. Thanks for the feedback, guys.
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