• Ukranian nationalists block russian trucks on route to EU, few days later Ukranian Goverment legalis
    41 replies, posted
A brand example of "Um yeah about that... actually it was all our plan all along!". It's like cutting of Crimea's power supply all over again. [quote] [img]http://cdn4.img.sputniknews.com/images/103477/07/1034770770.jpg[/img] Russian trucks have been unable to transport cargo to Europe through Poland since early February after the two countries failed to agree on the number of licenses, prompting Russian vehicles to look for a new route via southwestern Ukraine. The new route was obstructed last Thursday by Ukrainians calling for a blockade of Russian goods. Moscow condemned Kiev for its inaction and blocked Ukrainian freight traffic on Sunday. In response, the Cabinet agreed on Monday to bar Russian trucks from crossing the Ukrainian territory. [/quote] Read more: [url]http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160215/1034773053/peskov-comment-transit-ukraine.html#ixzz40G3LfpTq[/url] [url]http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160215/1034773053/peskov-comment-transit-ukraine.html[/url] [url]http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/14/nine-regions-block-russian-trucks/#arvlbdata[/url] [url]http://uatoday.tv/news/activists-block-russian-trucks-from-crossing-western-ukraine-border-589811.html[/url] And it already followed with retaliation from Russian goverment: [url]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-02/15/c_135100668.htm[/url] Following with passive reaction toward internvention of trade routes for foreign coutries against established deal and bowing down to a bunch or armed jackheads you got loose in a first place, GJ Ukranian Goverment, now we know for sure - you got no competence and no balls.
owned
[QUOTE=thecubanpimp;49746594]owned[/QUOTE] [quote] [B]Russia on Sunday suspended movement of Ukraine-registered commercial vehicles on its territory, in response to the blocking of Russian cargo vehicles by Ukrainian nationalists in the latest spat between the two countries.[/B] More than 100 Russian trucks carrying goods to the European Union (EU) were blocked in different Ukrainian regions, while 500 others returning from the EU had been denied entry to Ukraine, said the ministry, noting that [B]1,038 Ukrainian trucks were admitted to Russia on Feb. 11-12 alone.[/B][/quote] well, ukranian business logistics sure are. good luck with our customs border control - illegal import on civilian vehicles is sure costly on bribes.
[quote]after the two countries failed to agree on the number of licenses[/quote] Isn't it true then that nobody should have passed until the agreements actually legally finalised? It's more shitstirring of course but you've got to not give them ammunition against you, kari
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49746624]well, ukranian business logistics sure are. good luck with our customs border control - illegal import on civilian vehicles is sure costly on bribes.[/QUOTE] Regardless of which country is in the wrong or right and which one is going to get the worse end of it, the rubble really doesn't need to take any more hits
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49746648]Isn't it true then that nobody should have passed until the agreements actually legally finalised? It's more shitstirring of course but you've got to not give them ammunition against you, kari[/QUOTE] ya mistake it with Poland read article more carefully, Ukraine had nothing to do with that, transit was established for long now. [editline]15th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Elspin;49746649]Regardless of which country is in the wrong or right and which one is going to get the worse end of it, the rubble really doesn't need to take any more hits[/QUOTE] Heard of Grivna? probably not, cause there is no hits coming to the fallen fighter. And i don't get how there can even be an argument, Ukranian goverment went through with nationalists on a deal that would fuck up international trade agreements, what to even argue about? It's a an illegal and shitty move, that's it, if ya think they are justified in any means, well, i just can't agree with that.
Are you actually complaining that a country suffering from a civil war Russia is perpetuating won't let Russia profit via trade through their border?
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;49746691]Are you actually complaining that a country suffering from a civil war Russia is perpetuating won't let Russia profit via trade through their border?[/QUOTE] If you trying to pull a moral card here i'd like to remind you that it's the Ukranian goverment that was more than keen on refusing payin it debts, preventing gas transit, cutting electricity and buying donbass coal. In short, victimisation does not work with their bad record cause they sure abused it to 100% Not to mention that it's not "the country" taking a stand, but a armed nationalists. it's not like people took protests or something, it was literally[B] gangs of armed militia[/B], acting on their own accord untill a shitty goverment that has no control over them decided to pretend that soo far everything was according to plan, just because they failed to remove those people in a first place.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49746656]ya mistake it with Poland read article more carefully, Ukraine had nothing to do with that, transit was established for long now. [/QUOTE] Ah, I thought I was mistaken about something. It's not entirely clear in the article no worries
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49746712]If you trying to pull a moral card here i'd like to remind you that it's the Ukranian goverment that was more than keen on refusing payin it debts, preventing gas transit, cutting electricity and buying donbass coal. In short, victimisation does not work with their bad record cause they sure abused it to 100% Not to mention that it's not "the country" taking a stand, but a armed nationalists. it's not like people took protests or something, it was literally[B] gangs of armed militia[/B], acting on their own accord untill a shitty goverment that has no control over them decided to pretend that soo far everything was according to plan, just because they failed to remove those people in a first place.[/QUOTE] Victimization works because the only reason the trucks aren't allowed to go to Europe is because Russia annexed one part of Ukraine and started a civil war in another part. End of story. None of this would have happened otherwise
Lets also not forget the damn near daily breeches of the Minsk agreement by the Pro-Russian side. Feb 1 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-shelled-ukrainian-ambulance-when-medics-arrived-to-evacuate-wounded-soldiers-near-mayorsk/[/url] Feb 4 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-shelled-checkpoint-in-stanytsia-luhanska-using-82-mm-mortars/[/url] Feb 5 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-attacked-ukrainian-positions-81-times-in-the-last-24-hours/[/url] Feb 6 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/84-attacks-on-ukrainian-positions-and-11-wounded-soldiers-in-1-day-of-russian-cease-fire/[/url] Feb 13 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/ukrainian-authorities-closed-mariinka-checkpoint-after-attacks-from-the-side-of-pro-russian-militants/[/url] Feb 14 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-attacked-ukrainian-positions-69-times-in-the-last-24-hours-7-soldiers-wounded/[/url]
^ still using that garbage source after we talked and concluded it's an echo chamber for state press releases and Facebook posts, eh?
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49746881]Lets also not forget the damn near daily breeches of the Minsk agreement by the Pro-Russian side. Feb 1 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-shelled-ukrainian-ambulance-when-medics-arrived-to-evacuate-wounded-soldiers-near-mayorsk/[/url] Feb 4 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-shelled-checkpoint-in-stanytsia-luhanska-using-82-mm-mortars/[/url] Feb 5 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-attacked-ukrainian-positions-81-times-in-the-last-24-hours/[/url] Feb 6 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/84-attacks-on-ukrainian-positions-and-11-wounded-soldiers-in-1-day-of-russian-cease-fire/[/url] Feb 13 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/ukrainian-authorities-closed-mariinka-checkpoint-after-attacks-from-the-side-of-pro-russian-militants/[/url] Feb 14 [url]http://lugansk-news.com/pro-russian-militants-attacked-ukrainian-positions-69-times-in-the-last-24-hours-7-soldiers-wounded/[/url][/QUOTE] let's not forget that you are posting from a Ukranian crap site. here, have OSCE reporting on how easily Ukranian army is avoiding withdrawal of tech, and hiding away tanks: [quote]he SMM continued to monitor the implementation of the Addendum to the Package of measures.[B] The SMM revisited Ukrainian Armed Forces permanent storage sites whose locations correspond with the withdrawal lines and noted that one of the sites was abandoned and 19 tanks (T-64) and three mortars (2B9M, 82mm) were no longer present.[/B] At another site, one T-64 was recorded for the first time. A deputy battalion commander at one site also told the SMM that tanks were loaded with ammunition and designated as in reserve for the battalion. The SMM observed one tank under repair outside the site and 125mm anti-tank ammunition stored inside the site. [B] The SMM revisited an “LPR” permanent storage site and found all weapons previously verified as withdrawn to the site present.[/B] Beyond the withdrawal lines but outside storage sites, the SMM observed a tank (T-64) near government-controlled Memryk (33km north-west of Donetsk). The SMM also observed seven tanks (T-64) in a static position at a shooting range in “LPR”-controlled Myrne (28km south-west of Luhansk). The SMM continued to monitor the withdrawal of heavy weapons as foreseen in the Minsk Package of measures. The SMM has yet to receive the full information requested in the 16 October 2015 notification. The SMM revisited locations known to the SMM as heavy weapons holding areas, even though they do not comply with the specific criteria set out for permanent storage sites in the 16 October 2015 notification. In government-controlled areas beyond the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM revisited such locations and observed: 12 towed howitzers (2A36 Giatsint-B, 152mm), 12 self-propelled howitzers (2S3 Akatsiya, 152mm), 39 anti-tank guns (MT-12 Rapira, 100mm) and 27 Addendum-regulated tanks (T-64). Four previously recorded tanks were missing. [B]At one site, Ukrainian Armed Forces personnel prevented the SMM from recording the serial numbers of the 27 aforementioned tanks.[/B]*[/quote] [url]http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/222161[/url] Soo please, don't open your whitewash paint cans soo fast. Besides, entire point of sharing this news was to higlight how weak current Ukranian goverment if it allows nationalists to forge their foreign relations. But instead this turned into "Nuh uh they have reasons" even thought, as i mentioned before, entire transport blockade was organised by militias, not simple people, who now would suffer far more due to transit collapse. but hey, ya just gotta blame Russia.
[QUOTE=Conscript;49746931]^ still using that garbage source after we talked and concluded it's an echo chamber for state press releases and Facebook posts, eh?[/QUOTE] Then bring up your own that aren't fucking Pravda/RT lol
[QUOTE=Conscript;49746931]^ still using that garbage source after we talked and concluded it's an echo chamber for state press releases and Facebook posts, eh?[/QUOTE] No, you concluded it's an echo chamber and never refuted why it's a garbage source. Again, it's taking things from the ATO Facebook, Ukrainian State News, Security Service of Ukraine, etc. I don't see how reiterating things in English is garbage when Sputnik full on takes bloggers posts and turns that into English language propaganda articles.
Wow, this post is so mid-2015. I kind of perversely missed this kind of "discussions".
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49746968] ATO Facebook, Ukrainian State News, Security Service of Ukraine, etc. .[/QUOTE] Cause those are the most unbiased toward deplecting information about rebel regions, and cease-fire agreement rite?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49746952]OSCE Reporting on Feb 12[/QUOTE] But what about yesterday? [quote=OSCE]The SMM observed a large number of ceasefire violations in Donetsk region and followed up on reports of shelling in government- and non-government-controlled areas. Residents on both sides of the contact line in Donetsk region told the Mission that they heard shelling almost every night. [B]The Marinka checkpoint was temporarily closed due to fighting on 13 February, the Ukrainian Armed Forces told the SMM. The SMM observed long queues of civilians at checkpoints near the contact line. The Mission continued to monitor the withdrawal of weapons. In Mariupol the SMM observed 200 internally displaced persons calling for demining in Shyrokyne. In Lviv, the Mission monitored a gathering of 200 people marking the formation of the Falcon organization.[/B] The SMM observed a large number of ceasefire violations in Donetsk region on 13 and 14 February.[1] On 13 February, from positions in “DPR”-controlled Oleksandrivka (20km south-west of Donetsk) and government-controlled Marinka (23km south-west of Donetsk) the SMM saw and heard an intense two-hour exchange of fire between “DPR”- and government-controlled areas. Between 9:25 and 11:28hrs[2] the SMM saw and heard almost continuous incoming and outgoing fire which involved hundreds of rounds of small-arms and heavy-machine-gun fire, over 100 rounds from automatic grenade launchers (assessed as 30mm calibre) and rocket-propelled grenades, and at least 12 mortar rounds (assessed as 82mm calibre). From its position in Oleksandrivka the SMM observed several impacts and airbursts in “DPR”-controlled areas, approximately 1-5km away to the west and north-west, one impact from an 82mm mortar 500m to the north and one impact approximately 3km west-north-west of its position, which struck a house that subsequently caught fire. Nurses at the nearby Central City Hospital in the Petrovskyi district (16km south-west of Donetsk city centre) told the SMM that no one had been admitted with injuries from the shelling. At 11:40hrs, the Ukrainian Armed Forces Colonel from the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) informed the SMM that the Marinka checkpoint had been temporarily closed as a result of the fighting. On 14 February the SMM observed 176 cars queued to travel west at the Marinka checkpoint. No vehicles were queued in the other direction. On 13 February, between 14:05 and 23:00hrs, from government-controlled Svitlodarsk (57km north-east of Donetsk), the SMM heard approximately 200 undetermined explosions that involved mortars, automatic grenade launchers and bursts of small-arms and recoilless gun fire (SPG-9), and approximately 60 shots from an armoured personnel carrier (BMP-1) gun (73mm), in areas ranging from south-west to the north-east at a distance of 5-14km from its position. On 13 February, from a position at “DPR”-controlled Donetsk railway station (6km north-west of Donetsk city centre), between 8:15hrs and 14:05hrs, the SMM heard 35 undetermined explosions and 14 bursts of small-arms fire in areas ranging from the north-west to the north-east at distances of 4-8km. On 14 February, between 7:45 and 14:00hrs the SMM heard no ceasefire violations from this location. Between 17:00hrs on 13 February and 8:00hrs on 14 February, from Donetsk city centre the SMM heard 11 undetermined explosions at distances 7-15km south-south-west and south-west of its position. The SMM, whilst in “DPR”-controlled Horlivka (39km north-east of Donetsk), recorded approximately 80 undetermined explosions and bursts of small-arms fire in an area 6km west of its position during the night of 13-14 February. The SMM recorded a number of ceasefire violations in Luhansk region, including undetermined explosions whilst positioned in “LPR”-controlled Veselohorivka (64km west of Luhansk) on 13 and 14 February and undetermined explosions whilst in the government-controlled part of Zolote (60km north-west of Luhansk) on 13 February. Ceasefire violations in government-controlled Dmytrivka (43km north of Luhansk) were attributed to training exercises. Following up on reports of shelling, the SMM went to a residential area on the eastern side of Marinka which had reportedly been shelled on the evening of 13 February. On Shevchenko Street the SMM saw that the north-east facing wall of a house had been damaged by two separate impacts. The SMM found fresh shrapnel consistent with an automatic grenade launcher (AGL) round and remnants of an exploded rocket propelled grenade (RPG-7). The residents of the house, who said they were home at the time of the incident, reported they had heard a loud impact at approximately 18:00hrs on 13 February. They said no one had been injured. In “DPR”-controlled Staromykhailivka (15km west of Donetsk), the SMM observed that a projectile had struck the gate of a house and damaged its south-west facing walls and roof. The south-west facing façades of a garage and another small building displayed shrapnel marks. Following analysis of a crater (that measured 1.5m in diameter), the SMM assessed that the projectile had been fired from the south-south-west. From shrapnel in the vicinity of the crater, the SMM assessed that the crater was caused most probably by a 122mm artillery round. At a neighbouring house the SMM observed shattered windows that the owner said had been damaged by an explosion at around 1:00hrs on 13 February. In the “DPR”-controlled part of Zaitseve (50km north-east of Donetsk) the SMM observed damage to houses on General Kondratenko street caused by shelling that happened during the evening of 13 February. All houses had sustained structural damage to walls and roofs. Electricity lines were destroyed. [B]The SMM also observed one unexploded 120mm mortar shell in the yard of a house, which was assessed to have been fired from the north-west.[/B] A village council member told the SMM that a 63-year-old man had been wounded in the shelling and was admitted to Hospital number 2 in Horlivka. According to the head doctor at the hospital, the man had suffered a non-life-threatening wound to his hip. [B]The SMM continued to monitor the implementation of the Addendum to the Package of Measures. In violation of the respective Addendum withdrawal lines the SMM observed three tanks (T-64) at a compound in “DPR”-controlled Bezimenne (30km east of Mariupol) on 14 February. [/B] Beyond the withdrawal lines but outside storage sites, the SMM observed the following Addendum-regulated weapons: 24 tanks stationary near “LPR”-controlled Kruhlyk (31km south-west of Luhansk); 24 tanks (T-64 and T-72) stationary near “LPR”-controlled Myrne (41km south-east of Luhansk); 40 stationary tanks (T-64 and T-72) near “DPR”-controlled Ternove (57km east of Donetsk); four military trucks towing artillery covered in canvas (assessed as a 120mm mortar) and a flatbed truck carrying one and towing another piece of artillery (assessed as 120mm mortars), heading north-west near government-controlled Tsukuryne (38km north-west of Donetsk); two disassembled mortars (PM-38, 120mm) close to “DPR”-controlled Stepanivka (75km south-east of Donetsk). [B]The SMM continued to monitor the withdrawal of heavy weapons foreseen in the Minsk Package of Measures. The SMM has yet to receive the full information requested in the 16 October 2015 notification. The monitors revisited locations known to the SMM as heavy weapons holding areas, even though they do not comply with the specific criteria set out for permanent storage sites in the 16 October 2015 notification. [/B] In “DPR”-controlled areas beyond the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM revisited such holding areas and observed: six self-propelled howitzers (2S1, Gvozdika, 122mm); nine multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) (BM-21, Grad, 122mm); 13 towed howitzers (D-30, 122mm)[B]; nine Addendum-regulated mortars (P-38, 120mm); two MLRS (BM-21, Grad, 122mm) continued to be missing from one area; while 11 Addendum-regulated mortars (PM-38, 120mm) were also observed to be missing, two for the first time; 11 towed howitzers (D-30, 122mm) continued to be missing from another area.[/B] The SMM observed the presence of other hardware: two anti-aircraft guns (ZU-23, 23mm), in “LPR”-controlled Donetskyi (50km north-west of Luhansk), one set up in a firing position, the other mounted on a truck on 13 February and one mounted on a truck in the same general area on 14 February;[B] two military-type trucks in “LPR”-controlled Zolote-5 (60km north-west of Luhansk), one of which had the words “Mortar team” written in Russian on the side carrying about 20 armed men without insignia[/B]; at a “DPR” checkpoint near Staromykhailivka, the SMM observed a stationary light-armoured towing vehicle (MTLB), an armoured personnel carrier (BMP-2) and a Kraz truck mounted with BMP-2 turret and heavy machine-gun; five armoured personnel carriers (BTR-70) near government-controlled Artema (26km north of Luhansk) heading towards Shchastia (20km north of Luhansk). [B]Approximately 200 metres from a “DPR” checkpoint positioned to the west of Kominternove (23km east-north-east of Mariupol), the SMM observed fallen trees on the road, as well as an unexploded rocket propelled grenade lying close by, just off the road. When the SMM reached the checkpoint, “DPR” members told the monitors that if they stopped on the road again they would shoot at the SMM*.[/B] The SMM observed the security situation affecting civilians in areas close to the contact line. In Oleksandrivka eight residents (men and women, aged between 40 and 70 years old) told the SMM that they were angry at what they said was prolonged evening and night-time shelling that has been taking place regularly over recent weeks. Residents in government-controlled Zaitseve told the SMM that shelling in the village lasted from 18:00hrs to midnight every night, and resumed at around 4:00hrs. The monitors observed tank tracks on the road between Zaitseve and government-controlled Kodema (57km north-east of Donetsk). In Zaitseve on 12 February the SMM observed a crowd of about 200 mostly elderly men and women gathered to receive humanitarian aid provided by two non-governmental organizations. A Ukrainian Armed Forces officer from the JCCC said that a localized ceasefire had been arranged to allow aid to be delivered. The SMM observed approximately 200 internally displaced persons from Shyrokyne (20km east of Mariupol) gathered in Mariupol. The participants, most of whom were elderly women, carried banners with messages requesting demining of the village, compensation for, and the rebuilding of, their damaged properties. The SMM observed large numbers of civilians at crossing points near the contact line. At 8:50hrs on 13 February the SMM observed 269 civilian vehicles, five buses, and 15 pedestrians waiting to cross into government-controlled areas at the H15 Marinka checkpoint between “DPR”- and government-controlled areas. No vehicles were observed waiting to enter the “DPR”-controlled areas at that time. At 8:25hrs on 14 February the SMM observed 506 cars queued to enter government-controlled areas at the “DPR” checkpoint in Olenivka (23km south-west of Donetsk) and 50 cars queued in the other direction. At the government-controlled Novotroitske checkpoint (36km south-west of Donetsk), at 8:50hrs, the SMM observed 389 cars waiting to cross into “DPR”-controlled areas and 86 cars queued in the other direction. [B]At two border crossing points in Donetsk region - “DPR” controlled Marynivka (78km east of Donetsk) and Uspenka (73km south-east of Donetsk) - “DPR” members told the SMM that vehicles with “DPR” number plates were not permitted to enter the Russian Federation.[/B] On 13 February, in Lviv, the SMM monitored a march marking the 122nd anniversary of the formation of the youth organization Falcon (Сокіл). Some 200 people took part (men and women, most in their twenties). The national leader of the Svoboda political party addressed those gathered and expressed support for the on-going blockade of trucks with Russian Federation plates in Zakarpattia region, and called on people to join the action (see SMM Daily Report 13 February 2016). The march passed off peacefully, watched by six police officers. The SMM continued to monitor the situation in Kherson, Odessa, Ivano-Frankivsk, Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Chernivtsi and Kyiv. [B]*Restrictions to SMM’s freedom of movement or other impediments to the fulfilment of its mandate The SMM is restrained in fulfilling its monitoring functions by restrictions imposed by the parties and security considerations, including mine threats, damaged infrastructure, and the unpredictability of the situation in Donbas. “LPR” members continue to prevent the SMM from monitoring many areas alongside the border in parts of Luhansk region not controlled by the Government.[/B] Denial of access: On 13 February two “LPR” members stopped the Mission monitors in an area near Veselohorivka and denied it further passage; On 13 February an armed “DPR” member in Kominternove told the SMM that they could not travel towards Novoazovsk (40km east of Mariupol); On 13 February a Ukrainian Armed Forces soldier prevented the SMM from launching an unmanned aerial vehicle near government-controlled Pisky (11km north-west of Donetsk). Delay: On 14 February an armed “DPR” member in Bezimenne (30km east of Mariupol) prevented the SMM from entering a compound for a period of 50 minutes. Conditional access: [B] On 13 February armed “LPR” members stopped the SMM near Pionerske (19km east of Luhansk) and asked for its patrol plan and monitors’ names. Following phone calls between “LPR” members, another armed “LPR” member arrived at the checkpoint and escorted the SMM into Pionerske, where they could talk to residents only in his presence;[/B] On 14 February men wearing the insignia of the Azov regiment of the National Guard (under the Ministry of Internal Affairs) stopped the SMM at a police checkpoint in Berdiansk (Zaporizhzhia region, 67km south-west of Mariupol), inspected their luggage and allowed the SMM to proceed after five minutes. Other impediments: [B] “DPR” members near Kominternove threatened to shoot the SMM if they were to stop again on the road approaching the checkpoint.[/B] [/quote] [url]http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/222476[/url] Oh wait, some information from my garbage source got into the OSCE report. I wonder why.
It's ironic that you presented a report wich is filled with alot of info about ukranian side's faults but you just higlight very specific part, here, same text but with edition: [quote] [B]The SMM observed a large number of ceasefire violations in Donetsk region and followed up on reports of shelling in government- and non-government-controlled areas. Residents on both sides of the contact line in Donetsk region told the Mission that they heard shelling almost every night.[/B] The Marinka checkpoint was temporarily closed due to fighting on 13 February, the Ukrainian Armed Forces told the SMM. The SMM observed long queues of civilians at checkpoints near the contact line. The Mission continued to monitor the withdrawal of weapons. In Mariupol the SMM observed 200 internally displaced persons calling for demining in Shyrokyne. In Lviv, the Mission monitored a gathering of 200 people marking the formation of the Falcon organization. The SMM observed a large number of ceasefire violations in Donetsk region on 13 and 14 February.[1] On 13 February, from positions in “DPR”-controlled Oleksandrivka (20km south-west of Donetsk) and government-controlled Marinka (23km south-west of Donetsk) [B]the SMM saw and heard an intense two-hour exchange of fire between “DPR”- and government-controlled areas. Between 9:25 and 11:28hrs[2] the SMM saw and heard almost continuous incoming and outgoing fire which involved hundreds of rounds of small-arms and heavy-machine-gun fire, over 100 rounds from automatic grenade launchers (assessed as 30mm calibre) and rocket-propelled grenades, and at least 12 mortar rounds (assessed as 82mm calibre). From its position in Oleksandrivka the SMM observed several impacts and airbursts in “DPR”-controlled areas, approximately 1-5km away to the west and north-west, one impact from an 82mm mortar 500m to the north and one impact approximately 3km west-north-west of its position, which struck a house that subsequently caught fire. Nurses at the nearby Central City Hospital in the Petrovskyi district (16km south-west of Donetsk city centre) told the SMM that no one had been admitted with injuries from the shelling[/B]. At 11:40hrs, the Ukrainian Armed Forces Colonel from the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) informed the SMM that the Marinka checkpoint had been temporarily closed as a result of the fighting. On 14 February the SMM observed 176 cars queued to travel west at the Marinka checkpoint. No vehicles were queued in the other direction. On 13 February, between 14:05 and 23:00hrs, from government-controlled Svitlodarsk (57km north-east of Donetsk), the SMM heard approximately 200 undetermined explosions that involved mortars, automatic grenade launchers and bursts of small-arms and recoilless gun fire (SPG-9), and approximately 60 shots from an armoured personnel carrier (BMP-1) gun (73mm), in areas ranging from south-west to the north-east at a distance of 5-14km from its position. [B]On 13 February, from a position at “DPR”-controlled Donetsk railway station (6km north-west of Donetsk city centre), between 8:15hrs and 14:05hrs, the SMM heard 35 undetermined explosions and 14 bursts of small-arms fire in areas ranging from the north-west to the north-east at distances of 4-8km. On 14 February, between 7:45 and 14:00hrs the SMM heard no ceasefire violations from this location. Between 17:00hrs on 13 February and 8:00hrs on 14 February, from Donetsk city centre the SMM heard 11 undetermined explosions at distances 7-15km south-south-west and south-west of its position.[/B] The SMM, whilst in “DPR”-controlled Horlivka (39km north-east of Donetsk), recorded approximately 80 undetermined explosions and bursts of small-arms fire in an area 6km west of its position during the night of 13-14 February. [B]The SMM recorded a number of ceasefire violations in Luhansk region, including undetermined explosions whilst positioned in “LPR”-controlled Veselohorivka (64km west of Luhansk) on 13 and 14 February and undetermined explosions whilst in the government-controlled part of Zolote (60km north-west of Luhansk) on 13 February. Ceasefire violations in government-controlled Dmytrivka (43km north of Luhansk) were attributed to training exercises.[/B] Following up on reports of shelling, the SMM went to a residential area on the eastern side of Marinka which had reportedly been shelled on the evening of 13 February. On Shevchenko Street the SMM saw that the north-east facing wall of a house had been damaged by two separate impacts. The SMM found fresh shrapnel consistent with an automatic grenade launcher (AGL) round and remnants of an exploded rocket propelled grenade (RPG-7). The residents of the house, who said they were home at the time of the incident, reported they had heard a loud impact at approximately 18:00hrs on 13 February. They said no one had been injured. [B] In “DPR”-controlled Staromykhailivka (15km west of Donetsk), the SMM observed that a projectile had struck the gate of a house and damaged its south-west facing walls and roof. The south-west facing façades of a garage and another small building displayed shrapnel marks. Following analysis of a crater (that measured 1.5m in diameter), the SMM assessed that the projectile had been fired from the south-south-west. From shrapnel in the vicinity of the crater, the SMM assessed that the crater was caused most probably by a 122mm artillery round. At a neighbouring house the SMM observed shattered windows that the owner said had been damaged by an explosion at around 1:00hrs on 13 February.[/B] [B] In the “DPR”-controlled part of Zaitseve (50km north-east of Donetsk) the SMM observed damage to houses on General Kondratenko street caused by shelling that happened during the evening of 13 February. All houses had sustained structural damage to walls and roofs. Electricity lines were destroyed. The SMM also observed one unexploded 120mm mortar shell in the yard of a house, which was assessed to have been fired from the north-west. A village council member told the SMM that a 63-year-old man had been wounded in the shelling and was admitted to Hospital number 2 in Horlivka. According to the head doctor at the hospital, the man had suffered a non-life-threatening wound to his hip. The SMM continued to monitor the implementation of the Addendum to the Package of Measures. In violation of the respective Addendum withdrawal lines the SMM observed three tanks (T-64) at a compound in “DPR”-controlled Bezimenne (30km east of Mariupol) on 14 February. [/B] Beyond the withdrawal lines but outside storage sites, the SMM observed the following Addendum-regulated weapons: 24 tanks stationary near “LPR”-controlled Kruhlyk (31km south-west of Luhansk); 24 tanks (T-64 and T-72) stationary near “LPR”-controlled Myrne (41km south-east of Luhansk); 40 stationary tanks (T-64 and T-72) near “DPR”-controlled Ternove (57km east of Donetsk); four military trucks towing artillery covered in canvas (assessed as a 120mm mortar) and a flatbed truck carrying one and towing another piece of artillery (assessed as 120mm mortars), heading north-west near government-controlled Tsukuryne (38km north-west of Donetsk); two disassembled mortars (PM-38, 120mm) close to “DPR”-controlled Stepanivka (75km south-east of Donetsk). The SMM continued to monitor the withdrawal of heavy weapons foreseen in the Minsk Package of Measures. The SMM has yet to receive the full information requested in the 16 October 2015 notification. The monitors revisited locations known to the SMM as heavy weapons holding areas, even though they do not comply with the specific criteria set out for permanent storage sites in the 16 October 2015 notification. In “DPR”-controlled areas beyond the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM revisited such holding areas and observed: six self-propelled howitzers (2S1, Gvozdika, 122mm); nine multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) (BM-21, Grad, 122mm); 13 towed howitzers (D-30, 122mm); nine Addendum-regulated mortars (P-38, 120mm); two MLRS (BM-21, Grad, 122mm) continued to be missing from one area; while 11 Addendum-regulated mortars (PM-38, 120mm) were also observed to be missing, two for the first time; 11 towed howitzers (D-30, 122mm) continued to be missing from another area. The SMM observed the presence of other hardware: two anti-aircraft guns (ZU-23, 23mm), in “LPR”-controlled Donetskyi (50km north-west of Luhansk), one set up in a firing position, the other mounted on a truck on 13 February and one mounted on a truck in the same general area on 14 February; two military-type trucks in “LPR”-controlled Zolote-5 (60km north-west of Luhansk), one of which had the words “Mortar team” written in Russian on the side carrying about 20 armed men without insignia; at a “DPR” checkpoint near Staromykhailivka, the SMM observed a stationary light-armoured towing vehicle (MTLB), an armoured personnel carrier (BMP-2) and a Kraz truck mounted with BMP-2 turret and heavy machine-gun; five armoured personnel carriers (BTR-70) near government-controlled Artema (26km north of Luhansk) heading towards Shchastia (20km north of Luhansk). Approximately 200 metres from a “DPR” checkpoint positioned to the west of Kominternove (23km east-north-east of Mariupol), the SMM observed fallen trees on the road, as well as an unexploded rocket propelled grenade lying close by, just off the road. When the SMM reached the checkpoint, “DPR” members told the monitors that if they stopped on the road again they would shoot at the SMM*. The SMM observed the security situation affecting civilians in areas close to the contact line. In Oleksandrivka eight residents (men and women, aged between 40 and 70 years old) told the SMM that they were angry at what they said was prolonged evening and night-time shelling that has been taking place regularly over recent weeks. Residents in government-controlled Zaitseve told the SMM that shelling in the village lasted from 18:00hrs to midnight every night, and resumed at around 4:00hrs. [B]The monitors observed tank tracks on the road between Zaitseve and government-controlled Kodema (57km north-east of Donetsk).[/B] In Zaitseve on 12 February the SMM observed a crowd of about 200 mostly elderly men and women gathered to receive humanitarian aid provided by two non-governmental organizations. A Ukrainian Armed Forces officer from the JCCC said that a localized ceasefire had been arranged to allow aid to be delivered. The SMM observed approximately 200 internally displaced persons from Shyrokyne (20km east of Mariupol) gathered in Mariupol. [B]The participants, most of whom were elderly women, carried banners with messages requesting demining of the village, compensation for, and the rebuilding of, their damaged properties.[/B] The SMM observed large numbers of civilians at crossing points near the contact line. At 8:50hrs on 13 February the SMM observed 269 civilian vehicles, five buses, and 15 pedestrians waiting to cross into government-controlled areas at the H15 Marinka checkpoint between “DPR”- and government-controlled areas. No vehicles were observed waiting to enter the “DPR”-controlled areas at that time. At 8:25hrs on 14 February the SMM observed 506 cars queued to enter government-controlled areas at the “DPR” checkpoint in Olenivka (23km south-west of Donetsk) and 50 cars queued in the other direction. At the government-controlled Novotroitske checkpoint (36km south-west of Donetsk), at 8:50hrs, the SMM observed 389 cars waiting to cross into “DPR”-controlled areas and 86 cars queued in the other direction. At two border crossing points in Donetsk region - “DPR” controlled Marynivka (78km east of Donetsk) and Uspenka (73km south-east of Donetsk) - “DPR” members told the SMM that vehicles with “DPR” number plates were not permitted to enter the Russian Federation. On 13 February, in Lviv, the SMM monitored a march marking the 122nd anniversary of the formation of the youth organization Falcon (Сокіл). Some 200 people took part (men and women, most in their twenties). The national leader of the Svoboda political party addressed those gathered and expressed support for the on-going blockade of trucks with Russian Federation plates in Zakarpattia region, and called on people to join the action (see SMM Daily Report 13 February 2016). The march passed off peacefully, watched by six police officers. The SMM continued to monitor the situation in Kherson, Odessa, Ivano-Frankivsk, Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Chernivtsi and Kyiv. *Restrictions to SMM’s freedom of movement or other impediments to the fulfilment of its mandate The SMM is restrained in fulfilling its monitoring functions by restrictions imposed by the parties and security considerations, including mine threats, damaged infrastructure, and the unpredictability of the situation in Donbas. “LPR” members continue to prevent the SMM from monitoring many areas alongside the border in parts of Luhansk region not controlled by the Government. Denial of access: On 13 February two “LPR” members stopped the Mission monitors in an area near Veselohorivka and denied it further passage; On 13 February an armed “DPR” member in Kominternove told the SMM that they could not travel towards Novoazovsk (40km east of Mariupol); On 13 February a Ukrainian Armed Forces soldier prevented the SMM from launching an unmanned aerial vehicle near government-controlled Pisky (11km north-west of Donetsk). Delay: On 14 February an armed “DPR” member in Bezimenne (30km east of Mariupol) prevented the SMM from entering a compound for a period of 50 minutes. Conditional access: On 13 February armed “LPR” members stopped the SMM near Pionerske (19km east of Luhansk) and asked for its patrol plan and monitors’ names. Following phone calls between “LPR” members, another armed “LPR” member arrived at the checkpoint and escorted the SMM into Pionerske, where they could talk to residents only in his presence; On 14 February men wearing the insignia of the Azov regiment of the National Guard (under the Ministry of Internal Affairs) stopped the SMM at a police checkpoint in Berdiansk (Zaporizhzhia region, 67km south-west of Mariupol), inspected their luggage and allowed the SMM to proceed after five minutes. Other impediments: “DPR” members near Kominternove threatened to shoot the SMM if they were to stop again on the road approaching the checkpoint.[/quote] My point? You try to frame "day to day" violations on rebels solely, (and kinda undrestimating part that Ukranian army does too) all to give an excuse to a bunch of militia fighters that are not responding to goverment in their actions, blocking transport that is transitioning through the country on established international terms. Really why? Like, this is really concerning if anything that Ukranian nationalists do is OK as long as it anti-russian. Even when it goes against announced Pro-European course for Ukraine. Ukraine does not have to respond to soverein debts, ukraine does not have to pay for gas, ukraine does nto have to follow throught with reforms according to Minsk 2, ukraine can chose what is freedom of speech and what is not, Ukraine don't need to control nationalist militias and it's ok when goverment agrees with them out of fear. FFS.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49747143]It's ironic that you presented a report wich is filled with alot of info about ukranian side's faults but you just higlight very specific part, here, same text but with edition[/QUOTE] Because what I highlighted corresponded with what I posted, and I also highlighted the bits of rebel's missing equipment because the missing equipment matches the types of attacks orchestrated on the Ukrainians. They were shelled, and coincidentally some Grad's and mortars were missing when the SMM did their rounds. [editline]15th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karimatrix;49747143]My point? You try to frame "day to day" violations on rebels solely, (and kinda undrestimating part that Ukranian army does too) all to give an excuse to a bunch of militia fighters that are not responding to goverment in their actions, blocking transport that is transitioning through the country on established international terms. Really why?[/QUOTE] Because being part of a militia doesn't mean you can't peacefully assemble and protest? That's all they're doing, the only radical part about it is that they're volunteer militamen who fought in East Ukraine. Big whoop, are they stopping the trucks and executing the drivers? No? Then what the fuck is the problem with them telling some guys in trucks to turn around. [editline]15th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karimatrix;49747143]ukraine does nto have to follow throught with reforms according to Minsk 2[/QUOTE] This is also bullshit because Ukraine has implemented every measure outlined by the Minsk 2 agreement, it's just now the DPR and LPR officials see it as an abolishing of their power because elections have to be done again by Ukrainian government officials before Donetsk or Lugansk can even try to become autonomous/independent/etc.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49747185]Then what the fuck is the problem with them telling some guys in trucks to turn around.[/QUOTE] are you even fucking serious. Those are commerce arranged lorry trucks who travel through out the region on established route, established between companies [B]AND COUNTRIES THAT LEGALLY AGREE TO PROVIDE CORRIDOR[/B], that is no civilian truck! by your logic people can stop cargo trains and ships midway without any reprecursions. [quote]This is also bullshit because Ukraine has implemented every measure outlined by the Minsk 2 agreement, it's just now the DPR and LPR officials see it as an abolishing of their power because elections have to be done again by Ukrainian government officials before Donetsk or Lugansk can even try to become autonomous/independent/etc.[/QUOTE] what? they did not even consult on changes to constituiton with Trilateral Contact Group, never had a direct dialogue with rebels, and refused to start elections before restoring control over border even thought it goes exactly against Minsk 2 Agreement! How is that "every measure"?!
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49747221]are you even fucking serious. Those are commerce arranged lorry trucks who travel through out the region on established route, established between companies [B]AND COUNTRIES THAT LEGALLY AGREE TO PROVIDE CORRIDOR[/B], that is no civilian truck! [B]by your logic people can stop cargo trains and ships midway without any reprecursions.[/B][/QUOTE] First off, that's fucking stupid, second off, it's also in your article that Russia and Poland haven't worked out agreements on each others commercial transports, and I believe it's the same with Ukraine and Russia, especially with the problems going on. If you don't like economic pressure quit piling it on. Sometimes the way to really hurt someone is through their checkbook/wallet. That is why they're doing this, of course it's going to hurt business but it's going to get more people focusing on the problems between Ukraine and Russia. [editline]15th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karimatrix;49747221]what? they did not even consult on changes to constituiton with Trilateral Contact Group, never had a direct dialogue with rebels, and refused to start elections before restoring control over border even thought it goes exactly against Minsk 2 Agreement! How is that "every measure"?![/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_II#Efficacy[/url] [quote]While the 2015 Ukrainian local elections had been scheduled for 25 October, [B]DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko issued a decree on 2 July that ordered local DPR elections to be held on 18 October.[41] He said that this action was "in accordance with the Minsk agreements".[42] According to Zakharchenko, this move meant that the DPR had "independently started to implement the Minsk agreements".[42] Zakharchenko said that the elections would "take place 'on the basis of Ukraine's law on temporary self-rule status of individual districts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions', in so far as they are not at variance with the constitution and laws of the DPR".[42] [/B] On the same day, [B]President Petro Poroshenko responded that if DPR elections went forward in this unilateral manner, it would be "extremely irresponsible and will have devastating consequences for the process of deescalation of tension in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions".[/B][42] In addition, [B]the OSCE said that it would only will send observers to elections in the conflict zone if Ukraine invited it to do so.[/B][43] [B]As specified in Minsk II, local elections in DPR and LPR-held territories must be observed by the OSCE to be deemed legitimate.[24] LPR leader Igor Plotnitsky followed the DPR by scheduling elections in the territory that he controlled for 1 November 2015.[/B][44] Amidst a great reduction in violence, [B]following an agreement to restart the implementation of Minsk II that was agreed to on 1 September, the Normandy four held a meeting on 2 October. At the meeting, it was agreed that elections in the conflict zone would be held in accordance with Minsk II.[45] In order to do this, French President François Hollande said that the elections would need to be postponed until 2016, as three months were required to prepare for them.[45] Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed to use his influence to prevent the DPR and LPR from holding early elections[/B].[45] Accordingly, the DPR and LPR announced on 6 October that their planned elections had been postponed until 21 February 2016.[46] Local elections in the rest of Ukraine went ahead on 25 October 2015. Following the postponement, German foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said that if OSCE observers verified that the planned elections to be held in the separatist areas were in accordance with Ukrainian law and Minsk II, the "law on special status" for these areas would come into immediate effect.[47][/quote] Basically, Ukraine was doing everything in accordance with their law, DPR said no we're having them early, then so did the LPR. Basically those two stalled their own elections because they were impatient. Now they gotta wait till the 21st, in 6 days.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49747221][B]COUNTRIES THAT LEGALLY AGREE TO PROVIDE CORRIDOR[/B][/QUOTE] much like countries legally agree not to invade and annex parts of each other's territory
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49747254][B] and I believe[/B] it's the same with Ukraine and Russia, especially with the problems going on. [/QUOTE] Well you believe wrong! The transit was going alright according to WTO status and wow! Check this out! So now that we block transport in retaliation ukraine complains that WE broke WTO rules! [quote] The Russian Federation has unilaterally blocked the traffic of the Ukrainian cargo on the territory of Russia, thereby violating the rules and procedures of the World Trade Organization and the bilateral intergovernmental agreement on international road transport. Until relevant explanations from the Russian side are obtained and the aforesaid issue settled, Ukraine temporarily introduces retaliatory measures pretermitting travel of freight motor vehicles registered in Russia through the territory of Ukraine. [url]http://www.kmu.gov.ua/control/en/publish/article?art_id=248831949&cat_id=244314975[/url][/quote] My point is, you don't know a thing about how international logistics work, and your argument about "they have right to protest and block those" is crap. This entire thread was example of how far some of ya people really ready to dig in to find an excuse for what is simply an idiotic move on nationalist side that was followed by weak goverment reaction. It's that and it shows. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49747313]much like countries legally agree not to invade and annex parts of each other's territory[/QUOTE] Yup, like i said, on your way to China, and your shovel shines.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49747330]Well you believe wrong! The transit was going alright according to WTO status and wow! Check this out! [B]So now that we block transport in retaliation ukraine complains that WE broke WTO rules![/B][/QUOTE] Because your country officially stopped because of a non-government sanctioned protest, so now you have to suffer the economic consequences. [QUOTE=karimatrix;49747330]My point is, you don't know a thing about how international logistics work, and your argument about "they have right to protest and block those" is crap.[/QUOTE] Think I don't? I like in California, and whenever the dockworkers at Long Beach get fed up with their jobs due to pay/benefits, etc, they can bring everything to a stand still. This is basically the same thing with different people and circumstance but it's achieving the same thing, attention through economic disruption, and it's an entirely valid tactic. [QUOTE=karimatrix;49747330][B]This entire thread was example of how far some of ya people really ready to dig in to find an excuse for what is simply an idiotic move on nationalist side that was followed by weak goverment reaction.[/B] It's that and it shows.[/QUOTE] Fucking irony.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;49747330]Yup, like i said, on your way to China, and your shovel shines.[/QUOTE] what
I want to reiterate again because this really is kinda stupid, on the Ukrainian side were militia men who willingly and without sponsorship from the government, began to peacefully re-route trucks from Russia back. Then, on the Russian side, the government officially banned Ukrainian commercial transports because of people in Ukraine, not the government of Ukraine. And then, because Russia banned Ukrainian commercial transports entering Russia, Ukraine did the same. What was originally a protest for attention turned into a clusterfuck and a half between your countries, and the part where you act like they're in the wrong is hilarious to me because it was never the government banning Russian commercial transports from entering the country until Russia did it first in response to peaceful protest.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49747377]what[/QUOTE] i think he means "you're digging yourself into a hole"
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49747451]to peacefully re-route trucks from Russia back. [/QUOTE] That is a great way to describe blocking off road by intimidating group of often masked man in camo who would go as far as threaten drivers if they proceed further, all with no police in sight. not to mention that they care not about "rerouting" here, example video by UKRANIAN source, just incase [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLONKZ7qTgs[/media] Besides, Russia took action only [B]THREE DAYS LATER[/B] after Kiev spend absolutely to no effort resolving situation, soo their goverment responsible for lack of action 100 % But i am sure you'll find even more arguments.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49747451]I want to reiterate again because this really is kinda stupid, on the Ukrainian side were militia men who willingly and without sponsorship from the government, began to peacefully re-route trucks from Russia back. Then, on the Russian side, the government officially banned Ukrainian commercial transports because of people in Ukraine, not the government of Ukraine. And then, because Russia banned Ukrainian commercial transports entering Russia, Ukraine did the same. What was originally a protest for attention turned into a clusterfuck and a half between your countries, and the part where you act like they're in the wrong is hilarious to me because it was never the government banning Russian commercial transports from entering the country until Russia did it first in response to peaceful protest.[/QUOTE] Why do you include the word peacefully? Like they were gracious enough to not shoot them on sight or something. Just because nobody died it doesn't mean that everybody was as kind as a daisy to each other. I bet tempers were flaring like fuck because these Russian drivers had just driven thousands of miles just to do their job. If that happened to me I'd sure as hell have been like "Well fuck you we're doing it back". It's Ukraine's fault for not having control over its Militias and letting it so the militias represent the country at the point of entry. The deal became one sided. Russia couldn't get through, but were still funding everything on their side -how is that fair? In response to peaceful protest? They're (probably armed) fucking militiamen to a bunch of HGV drivers lmao. I'd have done whatever they said too. You can bet they're armed because who would expect a group of Ukrainian nationalists planning to confront Russia directly and blockade them, in camouflage, not to be. You're looking at this as black and white, RUSSIA DID BAD or UKRAINE DID BAD. Ukraine did bad by allowing Militiamen to govern for their country Russia naturally, given relations, got pissed off and blamed their government. Is Putin going to blame that one guy who spoke on camera specifically?
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